Ele shaman design is so bad.

The problem isn't really that ele has RNG; it's that their RNG is so bursty. maybe Lava surge procs should be changed so that it can't be replicated by ele's mastery and talents. Then damage could be shifted elsewhere.


But this is the problem. Damage can not be shifted elsewhere, at least not enough of it.

Put it in Lightning Bolt? You're now messing with Enhancement single target damage.
Put it in Flame Shock? You're now messing with Enhancement AoE.
Put it in Earth Shock? You're risking messing up Enhancement's single target rotation.
Put it in Fulmination? You're now shifting the same problem to a different spell.

Surprise, nothing's left. Unless you want to shift all that damage to Searing Totem which will probably just cause a mass exodus from the DPS Shaman specs.

What needs to happen (in my opinion) is:
1. Lava Surge needs an ICD that includes Lava Burst casts. Creating a break of at least 2 seconds between Lava Bursts (not including Mastery procs). This would allow enemy players to at least react by using a defensive between LvB chains.
2. Echo of the Elements needs to be replaced / reworked because it's just too much RNG.
3. Elemental Blast needs to become an Elemental Shaman exclusive spell (with a new 90 talent taking it's place). This way it also gives Blizz something to balance (be it the damage, stat buff, or by adding in a Feedback type mechanic) that won't effect the other specs.

EB (with possibly a bit of retuning) and an extra level 90 talent can offset the proc nerf to Lava Surge.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5900
06/16/2013 11:45 AMPosted by Oomis
It's when the trinket proc is up, they can unleash into a lava burst and get a lava surge proc at the same time they launch on the same GCD both gaining the 30% damage bonus.


This can't be done any more. True in Cata but since Mists 30% bonus is to only 1 spell even if you cast them / land them at the same time.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10620
Ele shaman in pve are already really bad. They dont need further nerfs. If you want a nerf like that to go into shamans you need to think of a place where there damage is improved.


This is completely false, but also off-topic for this thread.
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100 Orc Shaman
14020
06/18/2013 02:00 PMPosted by Ðrakthar
It's when the trinket proc is up, they can unleash into a lava burst and get a lava surge proc at the same time they launch on the same GCD both gaining the 30% damage bonus.


This can't be done any more. True in Cata but since Mists 30% bonus is to only 1 spell even if you cast them / land them at the same time.


They may have intended that, but I guarantee you that they both still benefit from the +30% extra damage.
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100 Orc Shaman
14020
06/16/2013 05:13 PMPosted by Marcellena
Ele shaman in pve are already really bad. They dont need further nerfs. If you want a nerf like that to go into shamans you need to think of a place where there damage is improved.


I made it clear that if they were going to change lava surge they would have to shift the damage around so that it was compensated in another area.

setup pyro ??? like lol ... deep into 2-3 pyro on top on combust and its gg a dead guy


Getting off a pyro chain as fire is vastly more difficult that getting off an instant double Lava burst.

One requires you to apply flame shock, wait and then cast your instant lava burst.

As fire you have to get your hotstreak proc, which means either fishing for a heating up, or using double inferno blast, which takes 8 seconds. (Alternatively, you could IB>Combustion>IB for a hotstreak, but then you just wasted Combustion when you could've used it during deep freeze.)
After that you would do something like this: Nova>pyro+deep>combustion>pyro>IB>pyro.

If you think that isn't severely more complicated than what an ele shaman does with Lava surge, you need to get your head examined.


I also have a frost/fire mage that I play, and I will agree with you 100% that it is far more complicated to set up damage on a Mage than on an Ele.

However, the only way the, "instant double lava burst" is going to happen, is if you get a LvS proc while casting LvB. So you're hoping for a proc, during a ~1.6 sec cast.

------

I'm just gonna copy/paste my post from this thread in the Shaman forums: us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9309030944?page=1

I think a lot of the QQ we're seeing is from BG heroes that got owned by an Ele.

Ele is a lot stronger in a BG than in Arena, because there are more targets to Flame Shock, and BGs are just in general far more chaotic, which often creates plenty of time to free-cast.

Overall, I would agree that it's a L2P issue.

However, you do occasionally get situations like this:

http://i.imgur.com/JF1yfXz.jpg

282199 damage from LvB, that hit all at once. I run with Unleashed Fury, and Ancestral Swiftness. No EotE.

It doesn't say so in the combat log, but as you can see by the corpse below my unit frame, that guy died.

Here's what happened:

Unleash Elements > Started casting Lava Burst > Got Lava Surge proc during first cast > Kept mashing LvB button > 2x LvB that both got a mastery proc.

Now, let's break it down further:

Unleash Elements: The buff for this lasts 8 seconds. My LvB cast time is 1.6 seconds, so I've actually only got about six second window. Had I been CCd, or interrupted during my LvB cast, it couldn't have happened.

I also got a Lava Surge proc while I was already casting LvB. Had I not gotten the proc, it could not have happened.

If Flame Shock would have been cleansed, it might have still happened, (other targets with FS) but it wouldn't have hit for nearly as much as it did.

Had my LvS buff been dispelled, it wouldn't have happened.

But I was in a BG, and I was left to free-cast. This does not happen in Arena unless you're left to free-cast. Which is approximately never.

I really don't know what Blizz could to prevent situations like that from happening, because that's just the nature of Elemental Shaman. It would require a complete rework of our mastery to prevent that from happening. I highly doubt we'd see such drastic changes before 6.0.
Edited by Mungoh on 6/18/2013 7:50 PM PDT
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100 Human Priest
2145
btw thuis is comeing from a frost mage rofl
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53 Blood Elf Hunter
17110
04/17/2014 02:18 PMPosted by Lillianelena
btw thuis is comeing from a frost mage rofl


From 2013. Why are you dredging this back up?
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91 Orc Warrior
7605
Lava surge is really all ele shamans have. Take it away and they become non viable again. Even worse so than season one where they at least had 5s.
Edited by Kazgrawl on 4/17/2014 9:19 PM PDT
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100 Troll Shaman
17280
06/18/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Cuddlebolt
Ele shaman in pve are already really bad. They dont need further nerfs. If you want a nerf like that to go into shamans you need to think of a place where there damage is improved.


This is completely false, but also off-topic for this thread.


I am aware this was from about a year ago...

But it isn't false. They are one of the weakest dps in the game atm. It is also on topic as the person is calling for nerfs for ele, my counterpoint is that you can't nerf ele's damage in pve because we are already weak. I was pointing out his specific change he wanted was a bad one.
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100 Tauren Druid
19480
04/18/2014 06:30 AMPosted by Taluun
06/18/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Cuddlebolt
...

This is completely false, but also off-topic for this thread.


I am aware this was from about a year ago...

But it isn't false. They are one of the weakest dps in the game atm. It is also on topic as the person is calling for nerfs for ele, my counterpoint is that you can't nerf ele's damage in pve because we are already weak. I was pointing out his specific change he wanted was a bad one.


Tbh they've already shown they can adjust numbers in PvE vs PvP on specific spells. They could buff ele and put it back in line at the same time by reducing lava burst damage to players while increasing non-lava burst / fulmination areas.
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100 Troll Shaman
17280
04/18/2014 07:30 AMPosted by Krayik
Tbh they've already shown they can adjust numbers in PvE vs PvP on specific spells. They could buff ele and put it back in line at the same time by reducing lava burst damage to players while increasing non-lava burst / fulmination areas.


Yes that is all true, but thats been something people have been suggesting for quite a while and not at all what the person I responded to was saying. I explicitly said earlier in this thread they would need to compensate ele's damage in some other way and the person response, in short, was "deal with it".
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