Blizzard says it's ok to be a jerk

90 Blood Elf Priest
16625

Seriously, I think people like the OP is describing are why Blizzard gave us tools to handle it ourselves. /votekick /ignore so you never have to be grouped with them again.


Indeed they are but /ignore isn't account wide. I have had the displeasure of finding certain people on their alts on more than once occasion. I can say with 100 percent certainty this has happened because of a run in with one particular pain the the back side from my very own server. Yes I know the chances for something like this are astronomically bad but it well documented that I could very well be the unluckiest person to ever play the game.

I have many issues with how the /votekick feature is implemented from its abuses to its glaring shortcomings as Teek so kindly pointed out.

Granted these are tools at our disposal but neither of them are adequate for the job we need them to do. I won't go so far as to side with the OP and say Blizzard condones this type of behavior but at the same time I can sympathize with the OP because these occurrences are far to frequent for my liking. When people like me avoid participating in LFRs because of it perhaps its time to reexamine their policies on this?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16625


I actually agree with this 100%. It was not just LFG, but server transfers as well. You earned your rep on a server and had to live with it. It meant social consequences for bad actions. If you pulled that nonsense on Manno back in the day you would have been black listed fast...the guilds all talked among leaders. At this point they have removed social consequences from the game and not given us any way to counter that. Kick is not enough for someone who is seriously trolling raids/dungeons.

That said, the game is more accessible than ever and in some ways that is a good thing. You no longer need to be in a serious raiding guild to see content. I like the dungeon finder as well. Despite the issues, it is nice to just queue and run.

I think the best way to deal with this right now is to suggest to Bliz that they add Griefing as one of the drop down options for reporting. Being a jerk is not against the ToU, but repeated actions that stall the raid and can not be dealt with by Kick are. (my opinion of course)


I wish I would of seen this before I posted because I honestly couldn't have summed it up any better myself. I'm all for accessibility and inclusion so preventing that isn't the answer. I believe a griefing option would be welcome change along with a monthly or quarterly report like they used to announce when purging the community of other types of inappropriate action. I don't need to know who they are but it would be nice if they let the community know they are making a sincere effort to get a handle on this type of thing.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13045
I laugh when people say it isn't griefing if someone pulls a boss and drops group. I beg to differ on that, a person who does that just doesn't do it once and then never does it again. That sort of behaviour is a repeated sort of thing. Just because they did it to your group doesn't mean they've never done it to other people in the past and wont do it in the future.

Its like a little kid in the supermarket, the second you appease them by bending to their will, they are going to repeat that behaviour because they have no fear of consequences.

This goes the same with all negative behaviour in this game. Blizzard is like that apathetic parent who simply lets the kid throw a tantrum and still buys them that candy bar just to shut them up.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few"

Im sure if Blizzard started pulling out the belt instead of putting them on time outs, the community may start to get better.
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MVP
90 Night Elf Priest
10750
06/17/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Canopia
I laugh when people say it isn't griefing if someone pulls a boss and drops group.


I consider it griefing when Blizzard does... but I honestly don't know Blizzard's position here.

Would be awesome if someone could link to it.
Edited by Snowfox on 6/17/2013 6:43 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16625
I see certain unnamed individuals decided to break their gentlemanly agreement rather quickly. To bad the forum /ignore feature doesn't prevent unwelcome intrusions into what has been an otherwise civil and intelligent discussion.
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90 Draenei Paladin
11520
06/17/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Pained
Indeed they are but /ignore isn't account wide.

This is true, I wish it was.
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90 Human Warrior
6800
Random posters telling other people to get over a legitimate complaint. Classic WOW community now a days. PVP server grieving does not equal PVE random grieving.

PVP would be like someone constantly harrassing a player, threatening, and following a player.

PVE is a different setting. You que up with a group dedicate time and trust to your fellow players, only to have them wipe your entire group because their mom said it was time to do the dishes.

Two completly different situations. Player harassment vs group harassment.
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MVP
90 Night Elf Priest
10750
Random posters telling other people to get over a legitimate complaint. Classic WOW community now a days. PVP server grieving does not equal PVE random grieving.

PVP would be like someone constantly harrassing a player, threatening, and following a player.

PVE is a different setting. You que up with a group dedicate time and trust to your fellow players, only to have them wipe your entire group because their mom said it was time to do the dishes.

Two completly different situations. Player harassment vs group harassment.


I'm just honestly trying to find out if it is actually against the rules or not.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12980
06/17/2013 06:43 PMPosted by Snowfox
I laugh when people say it isn't griefing if someone pulls a boss and drops group.


I consider it griefing when Blizzard does... but I honestly don't know Blizzard's position here.

Would be awesome if someone could link to it.

I see it as "contrary to the spirit of the game" and report away!
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MVP - Technical Support
12 Human Mage
9165
I agree with the lovely Hippeaux :) I also advocate using the suggestion tool in game to request a report griefing feature
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90 Night Elf Rogue
14605
I know. I've seen blue posts literally say, albeit apologetically, "unfortunately, being a jerk isn't against the rules".

Blizzard has, however, given us some tools to utilize when faced with jerks. We can ignore them, which will also prevent us from grouping with them again, in addition to blocking chat from the offending party. We can initiate a vote-to-kick to remove them from a raid or dungeon, or "report AFK" to remove someone from a BG (I've seen this happen to jerks mouthing off in bg chat several times). And if something becomes really bad, if it's in their power to they'll do something about it when a ticket is put in.

Pulling a boss and inconveniencing people for a few minutes isn't considered "bad enough", probably because the group has it in their power to punish that person my kicking them so they have to sit through a debuff and another queue time if they want to attempt that instance again.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14225
can't you just /ignore name-server the jerk?


Not really. The ignore system is horribly bugged and quite often attempting to ignore players after one of you has left the dungeon will simply result in "Player not found" over and over again. Heck I've even seen the right click to ignore on something they said before bailing fail.

The current LFR and to a lesser extent dungeon system is ridiculously susceptible to griefing and trolling right now and there is simply very little recourse for players legitimately trying to complete the instance.

Blizzard has, however, given us some tools to utilize when faced with jerks. We can ignore them, which will also prevent us from grouping with them again, in addition to blocking chat from the offending party. We can initiate a vote-to-kick to remove them from a raid or dungeon, or "report AFK" to remove someone from a BG (I've seen this happen to jerks mouthing off in bg chat several times). And if something becomes really bad, if it's in their power to they'll do something about it when a ticket is put in.Pulling a boss and inconveniencing people for a few minutes isn't considered "bad enough", probably because the group has it in their power to punish that person my kicking them so they have to sit through a debuff and another queue time if they want to attempt that instance again.


Unfortunately the "working as intended" tools are of little use against people determined to disrupt a group.

Vote kick is absurdly easy to circumvent by remaining in combat or being kick immune

Ignore function is of little use as well since it's highly unlikely you would ever be grouped with them again anyway and it's not alt wide for you OR them.

The real problem is there is simply no negative consequences for disrupting a group
Edited by Cuddles on 6/17/2013 7:26 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16625
I also advocate using the suggestion tool in game to request a report griefing feature


Done and done, who'd of thunk it the community actually moved forward and came up with a call to action on a topic I am spirited about. I also noticed something else that just happened that I don't think I can mention but it was nice to see it work both ways for a change. My faith in the WoW community just got earned a few reputation points with the House of Pained.

Now what am I going to do with this tin foil hat now.... I think someone commented before that I can rearrange it into some type of smoking apparatus?
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Community Manager
The reality is that it's exceedingly difficult -- and not very sustainable -- to try and micro-manage player behavior to the level you want, Allnepthys. Our Customer Support reps do not exist to police morals or, as you suggest, deny people access to content for long periods of time because they can be mean and cause others inconvenience.

Is what that player did cool? Absolutely not. It's a crappy thing to do to a group and it's happened to me.

So what we've done is developed a hidden system that tracks player behavior in matchmade groups on a number of different levels. We don't go into a lot of details about the system for a few reasons: A) we've been constantly evolving how intelligent the system is, B) the system is dynamic so that it can apply penalties based on varying factors -- it's analyzing trends as they change over time and accounting for them in some fashion -- and C) we don't want players to know exactly how the system starts penalizing people for less-than-average behavior and then try to game it.

Suffice it to say, the things you do in a matchmade group matter. If you're above the average in kicking players out of groups, being kicked from groups, or ducking out early (as described in the OP), deserter debuffs, kicking thresholds, and the like become increasingly less forgiving.

As for handing out suspensions or blocking people from matchmaking content for any lengths of time, that's a very different discussion. But the policies and procedures we have in place are considered with extreme care. We want to create the best and most fair environment possible in World of Warcraft, so friends and strangers alike can have a good time. And, as mentioned above, we try to put checks and balances into our game systems to ensure bad behavior isn't rewarded, and becomes very inconvenient for the instigator.

This is a social game and millions of people are playing. It just isn't feasible to expect us to have the personnel to judge every instance of player disruption and dole out whatever punishment the reporting player feels is warranted.

Note: Nowhere in my post did I say being a jerk is okay! I'm not sure how you were misled into believing that's Blizzard's stance based on the situation you laid out, Allnepthys.

So I was in a LFR (yeah shoot me please) waiting for a tank on Dark Animus. A dps gets all upset because the queue is taking awhile and decides to shoot the 1 hp boss starter, leave group and make everyone wipe.

Naturally since I am stupid and naive I think Blizz would want to know something about that to stop that person from doing it again since it's one person basically being a jerk to 24 of their paying customers. You'd think they'd want to know so they could do something easy to stop that person from doing it again or at least make them think twice about it. All they'd have to do is stop that person from doing LFR for a month for example and word would quickly get around.

But lo and behold, there is no way to report a person for that anymore. It's not one of the choices for writing a ticket. The only way to report a person is by right-clicking their name, but he left the group so there is no way to right click his name. PLUS, if you could right click his name there is nothing for reporting something like this anyway. Even though this behaviour is kind of common (now I know why it's common).

Isn't this griefing? Isn't this part of the EULA? The only assumption I can make is Blizz is ok with this, they've certainly guaranteed no one will suffer for it.

So go at it jerks, you've found your game.
Edited by Zarhym on 6/17/2013 7:45 PM PDT
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MVP
90 Night Elf Priest
10750
Thanks for the reply Zarhym, I was curious what Blizzard's position on it was.
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10 Troll Warlock
0
So what we've done is developed a hidden system that tracks player behavior in matchmade groups on a number of different levels
....So you guys know that I get my characters naked and /dance while we're waiting for additional members to queue in in the event that we do have someone douchepull?

Ohdear.
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90 Human Warlock
12995
So what we've done is developed a hidden system that tracks player behavior in matchmade groups on a number of different levels. We don't go into a lot of details about the system for a few reasons: A) we've been constantly evolving how intelligent the system is, B) the system is dynamic so that it can apply penalties based on varying factors -- it's analyzing trends as they change over time and accounting for them in some fashion -- and C) we don't players to know exactly how the system starts penalizing people for less-than-average behavior and then try to game it.


/tinfoilhat the more you kick people and leave early the less likely you are to get loot ._______.
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90 Human Paladin
9330
Just to check my understanding: the thread was not about griefing or players being given the all-clear to grief others, but was always about how it's not as simple to report a player as in the past.

Is that right?

I assume that players like the OP take a lack of enforcement to mean there are no rules, although can't see the logic that connects those two points.
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64 Tauren Death Knight
13070
Players can not enter an instance when an encounter is in progress.

Why should players be able to LEAVE while an encounter is in progress?
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