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So I am a full time Fistweaver, I've been doing it for a while now. Been debating on messing with the stat priority though. Everywhere on the net is all about the mistweaver priority. INT>SPR>HASTE(to cap)>CRIT>MAST>HASTE(past cap). But I was wondering if anyone has messed with it, or has an opinion. Would crit be a better stat to work on first? As it is now, I never get low on mana, and my RM is my top healer.
But would more crit be a better output over haste? Dmg increase = Higher heals output right?
a 2h build with Capacative meta gem is better than courageous for fistweavers if you truely do just fistweave...if you are REMing you are more zealweaving than anything. You have a stupidly high amount of spirit if you just fistweave, you should have around 6k. You are reforging out of crit and into spirit which is...different. 5.1k is required so you don;t miss the boss.
Edited by Donnieyen on 6/18/2013 9:42 PM PDT
Taken from wow head :
Q: One concern from Mistweavers when dealing with Capacitive Primal Diamond is that the Conductive proc would affect Eminence.
I think the courageous one would work better for regen. Fistweavers need chi aswell, getting it from Rem and EH, using it for kicking and punching is still fistweaving. But those free spells from the Meta gem will help more I'd think.
I've been experimenting with the second haste break point, spirit to comfort, int and crit. And in same cases I pull ahead, in other I'm just in line.
Edit* yeah you've got alot of spirit, probably won't need that much.
Edited by Daiyoukai on 6/19/2013 8:18 AM PDT
It's been simmed that a 2h build with capac puts out nearly 20% more damage than courageous. I explained that fistweaving is literaly just JAB BOK AND TP. If you are using REM for chi that means you are actually healing and not just using eminence. If you are using REM in your rotation you should JAB - BOK to get buff, JAB - TP to get buff then cast REM, and autoattack/EH etc. only keeping up the buffs when they are going to fall off. If you fistweave you should be JAB - > Boking and then Jab-> Tping x5 and using the free surging to help keep the bok active, rinse and repeat.
Don't work REM or EH into your regular rotation. Use it at certain times that you can (OOR, immune, etc). That being said, if you are fistweaving entire boss encounters you aren't using the full capability of our spec. We can easily fistweave 3-4 heads on megaera and during rampages use soothing/SCK/rem and uplift and pump out tons of healing. Many raids now are more of a switch back and forth between the two and not really "weaving them together".
Certain fights can show off fistweaving (We make ridiculous tank healers if we fistweave horridon) and other show off mistweaving (Meg, DA, etc).
I'd post a log comparing but It seems lik on megaera you managed to do about 45k HPS fistweaving. At your gear level I pulled well over 90k mistweaving:
The reason I posted the guide is because it was compiled by someone who has exclusively fistweaved some heroic fights and simmed just about every scenario for exclusively fistweaving.
Edited by Donnieyen on 6/19/2013 9:38 AM PDT
You can generate good heals with fistweaving, but to tell people flat out, their not fistweaving because they use other spells associated with mistweaving. Is merely a moot point. Imho, retarded.
Your meters show your healing mate was a holy priest, of course you'll out heal me by a large margin. switch out that priest for a pally, and a good shaman. Equally healing 50k hps each is fair enough, which I'm told is good for where I'm at.
Just read the Fistweaving guide. You clearly won't, or you choose to ignore everything in it. It tells you how to sim everything yourself, which has been done by other people, and the results of said sims. I never said you can't generate good heals with fistweaving. There are parses of 100k+ HPS fistweavers on heroic twins 25man. But if you want to get the most out of fistweaving, you do NOT weave REM and EH into your rotation. Since the OP says they always fistweave, I'm assuming they want to get the most out of fistweaving. I was actually comparing my log to a log I found of the OP in a 25man environment. You, I wouldn't really compare myself too since my comparisons are "retarded".
Also, my healing partner wasn't a holy priest. They were a holy priest, 2 rshamans, a druid and a disc priest. I ran a ten man the other day for another guild and i was easily outhealing both the disc priest and the holy pally in that comp (and 3 healing makes me queasy). To be honest I dropped the ball there and should have fistweaved because of all the overhealing until I solo healed lei shen's p3.
I used to run with 2 discs and a holy paladin and I put out about ~100khps on those fights.
here you go courtesy of REglitch's guide.
1h/courage: http://pastehtml.com/view/d4lmpgwnb.html 122kdps
2h/courage: http://pastehtml.com/view/d4lom8h0n.html 132kdps
1h/capac: http://pastehtml.com/view/d4lpe7ug7.html 133kdps
2h/capac: http://pastehtml.com/view/d4lotbbef.html 143kdps
This is a direct quote on REMS usage, and I even explained that it should be used during times of downtime. (boss immune, etc):
Should I ever cast Renewing Mist?
-I haven't listed it in the priority que, but basically there's lots of opportunities to delve outside pure damage and provide extra healing. This includes times where the boss is invulnerable, out of range, shielded, or DPS has been called to a halt. So yes you should, but it's incredibly taxing to work it into your regular damage rotation.
but to tell people flat out, their not fistweaving because they use other spells associated with mistweaving. Is merely a moot point. Imho, retarded.
Its not your "comparisons", I think its your reading.
100khps, nice, thanks for the sims btw.
So yes you should, but it's incredibly taxing to work it into your regular damage rotation.
Perhaps if you can't work it into your rotation, you shouldn't give advice on the subject. Stick to linking the guide. Maybe give it a thoroughly good read. word for word.
Edited by Daiyoukai on 6/19/2013 2:58 PM PDT
that is a direct quote from the guide, written by someone who has been fistweaving heroic bosses (albeit not progression bosses). I believe he has much more experience than you in the subject, and using his strategy I've done some pretty decent fistweaving myself. His parse is the 100khps parse.
To call me retarded is pretty moot, because well, you can't read a guide.
Btw if you are weaving in REM to your rotation. you better be exactly at the haste breakpoint or you hinder how many REMS you can maximally spread.
Maybe give it a thoroughly good read. word for word.
That's where I call it a day and wish you well in whatever you decide to go do.
OP you can decide to do whatever you want. I'd think you want to be the best that you can be at your class though. I gave as much advice as I could. I'm out.
To call me retarded is pretty moot, because well, you can't read a guide.
Someone has a reading problem, I was calling the point of
telling people flat out, their not fistweaving because they use other spells associated with mistweavingretarded, Hence "moot point".
Yes, you're right he does have a lot of experienced compared to me, But something me and him have in common, is we learned the hard way about fistweaving, whats good, what isn't. You on the other hand, just looked for the easy way out. And then pretend to know everything there is to know about it.
If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, can you say the same.
Gl with fistweaving Op.
My haste is above the second break point soft cap.
Edited by Daiyoukai on 6/19/2013 3:23 PM PDT
You astound me. Seriously you do. I learned through trial and error over the past 8 months what was best for me, and when I saw I was performing poorly compared to the best of the best, I went looking for answers and tweaked what I was doing. I used to use REM on CD during fistweaving. I don't anymore. You cannot look at my posts and claim I took any easy way out because you do not know me at all, nor have you watched me. I usually link that guide first to EVERYONE because EVERYTHING they need to know for beginners that want to be the best possible is there for them in one place.
I suggest you go write your own guide.
You haven't admitted that you were wrong once even in the face of a lot of evidence (including the fact that you told me I didn't read a guide before posting it. Lol, you are too funny).
If I read that one tiny piece wrong, forgive me. It hurts so much to be wrong about reading a sentence that has nothing to do with the argument wrong, that I think I'm crying right now.
You are sporting about 11k spirit, of course you can easily work in REM. but you aren't maximizing your damage, which is what pure fistweaving does, which is a distinction everyone but you seems to make. The reason other fistweavers find it taxing is because they run 6kish spirit and maximize their crit.
Now I'll actually bow out.
Thanks for all the responses. Here is my current basic rotation. Renewing Mist, Jab, Tiger Palm, Chi Wave, Jab, Tiger Palm, Jab, Tiger Palm, Renewing Mist, Mana Tea, Jab, Tiger Palm, Jab, Tiger Palm, Surging Mist, Mana Tea. I also have a few videos of my early Fistweaving on youtube. It has gotten a lot better since these.
You need to work BOK into your rotation. The buff it gives is extremely good for fistweaving.
The reason I mentioned breakpoints is based on if you are using REM, and that you need to be EXACTLY on or very slightly above is that at each breakpoint, REM will have a duration of 18.85s and be given an extra tick. Thus, at any given time, you can have 9 REM spread ( up to 15 with TFT). if you continue to increase your haste rating this is what will happen
1) your REM will continue to heal for the same amount of ticks
2) REMS total duration will decrease (ticks are faster in total) until a duration of 16.5s
3) once you hit around 16.5s youll be near the next haste cap...you hit it, get another tick and REMs duarion goes back up to 18.85.
At 16.5s youll be lucky to get 7ReMs out naturally, not including TFT (read, youre putting out 3 less REMS which is a ton of healing). as you increase haste paste the breakpoint you reduce the leeway for REMING as many people as possible with absolutely NO gain. The haste past these breakpoints is not enough to affect AA speed in any significant way.
I shouldn't say no gain, haste will affec RPPM trinkets and gems, but not in a way that it will outperform REM.
Breakpoints assume you have a 5% haste buff in raid and you are reforging in TIGER stance.
Edited by Donnieyen on 6/20/2013 12:10 AM PDT
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