Dodge on Leather like Crit on Plate Tank Gear

90 Blood Elf Monk
5050
06/18/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Snarshk
Spirit is 1:1 with hit, it would be fine. As I said, it doesn't matter how bad dodge is for you, dodge is a tank stat. It will be on tank gear. Reforge out of it, or don't use the slot.


Then in all fairness, I would like to see crit and haste on your gear as a Prot Warrior, all tanks do damage too after all.

It should be gotten out of your head that dodge is a "Tank" stat. Not all tanks are created equal. Monks can dodge, for sure, but it is not one of our tanking stats. Our dodge comes from crit and agility, and should exclusively do so. I am just trying to get to the bottom of why it is making its way onto our gear.

It is not like a prot warrior that doesn't favor dodge because it is less optimal, dodge is still one of your three tanking stats. Our three tanking stats are crit, mastery and haste. The fact that we can parry and dodge does not mean we were designed to make use of the actual stats, as we were not. Why should we have to deal with 5 stats as tanks? How convoluted would our gear be if we were designed to manage 5 stats in a priority? It would be about as convoluted as druid tank gearing was 2 & 3 expansions ago when the leather wearing tanks were all over the board in what they were wearing to tank in.


Maybe I'm just arguing semantics but dodge is a tanking stat for a BM monk, it is just considered as significantly less useful than dodge might comparatively be for a plate tank. This is because crit haste and mastery all contribute more to our survival than dodge ever will, but it doesn't mean that dodge serves zero purpose.

That being said, it's unfortunate that they had to put it as a socket bonus for whatever reason, but the real issue here is with the inconsistency, the sore thumb of dodge only existing on tier leather, even if dodge has a nonzero boost to our survivability.

One thing to keep in mind is that this is simply some amount of agility we miss out on on tier pieces when our tier bonuses, comparatively to other tanks, are an astronomical boost in survivability and utility. I find, for example, the abundance of dodge/parry on my pally's tier gear coupled with a very unappealing set of tier bonuses as a much bigger oversight than the BM current situation TBH.

And even if the BM T16 gear is hilariously filled with dodge and parry with stamina socket bonuses for whatever reason, I'm still going to be salivating at the idea of getting that incredibly attractive 2/4p bonus that I have no idea how they justified creating.
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90 Orc Warrior
14530
06/18/2013 09:10 AMPosted by Snarshk
Then in all fairness, I would like to see crit and haste on your gear as a Prot Warrior, all tanks do damage too after all.

Poor argument. Your job is to take less damage. Dodge does that.

A protection warrior's primary job is to take less damage. Not "do damage too". Haste makes no sense to be on our gear. One could argue crit would be in about the same place as dodge for monks with the 5.4 changes, and that would be fine if it was on our gear.

Gear doesn't have to be ideal, and it doesn't matter how little dodge does for you, it is still a tank stat.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11255
06/18/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Twansition
Then in all fairness, I would like to see crit and haste on your gear as a Prot Warrior, all tanks do damage too after all.

Poor argument. Your job is to take less damage. Dodge does that.

A protection warrior's primary job is to take less damage. Not "do damage too". Haste makes no sense to be on our gear. One could argue crit would be in about the same place as dodge for monks with the 5.4 changes, and that would be fine if it was on our gear.

Gear doesn't have to be ideal, and it doesn't matter how little dodge does for you, it is still a tank stat.


Your argument was that spirit would be completely wasted on a mage. My argument is that crit and haste would NOT be completely wasted on your gear, just like dodge would not be completely wasted on mine. It is more than a "sub-optimal" issue, it is a "going against design" issue.

At this point, after considering this discussion, I would be happier if Monks and Druids got absolutely zero added dodge (and/or parry) from the actual raw stat, and I question why we even do now.
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90 Night Elf Monk
11345
In the spirit of WoW being an RPG - PERHAPS, as others have said, it doesn't have to be 100% optimal all the time. Perhaps part of the RPG experience is that things can be sub-optimal. Having things be sub-optimal could perhaps create choices for people, in the sense of the gem slot. Get the free stat or gem whatever gem I want?

Just my thought
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90 Troll Monk
14075


Actually it was directly on the T14 here http://www.wowhead.com/item=85384

Also as pointed out, I did not realize the stats on T16 were a direct copy of the stats on T15. Being that things are "subject to change", I feel a bit better. My questions and concerns remain though.


I am aware that there was dodge directly on our T14 set. Do note I only stated T15 and T16, not T14.

As far as I'm concerned, so long as it doesn't take the place of a crit/mastery/haste stat slot on the tier, I can live with tank-oriented socket bonuses. Socket bonuses are just that; socket bonuses.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15600
A good thing to remember is that socket bonuses are not the end all for gear. It shouldn't matter what it is if your aren't going to gem for it or if it gives you even the smallest bonus to your survivability/damage.
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90 Gnome Priest
7555
Haste is actually great for a paladin. The more you have, the better it is.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15600
Haste is actually great for a paladin. The more you have, the better it is.


I know this. But you are missing the point of my post if that is what you got out of it.
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