5.4 Holy Paladin Concerns

90 Human Paladin
2900
-Keep the mastery + EF interaction nerf. Just the initial heal causes a shield.
-Buff the HoT portion of EF by 30-50%.
-Sacred Shield SP scaling increased by 30%.
-Selfless Healer redesigned: Judgment causes your next Daybreak to do 100% more healing.

-HS scales with haste.

-LoD healing increased by 50% and now transfers 25% of healing done to beacon (yes, it would take THAT much to make this spell worth using).

-Devotion Aura now grants party and raid members 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

-Glyph of Divine Plea: Now grants 20% mana but adds a 5 second cast time. Healing debuff removed.
Edited by Madlife on 6/30/2013 7:04 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
-Keep the mastery + EF interaction nerf. Just the initial heal causes a shield.
-Buff the HoT portion of EF by 30-50%.
-Sacred Shield SP scaling increased by 30%.
-Selfless Healer redesigned: Judgment causes your next Daybreak to do 100% more healing.

-HS scales with haste.

-LoD healing increased by 50% and now transfers 25% of healing done to beacon (yes, it would take THAT much to make this spell worth using).

-Devotion Aura now grants party and raid members 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

-Glyph of Divine Plea: Now grants 20% mana but adds a 5 second cast time. Healing debuff removed.


They've already said they are keeping the initial shield from EF, just that the hot can no longer refresh it.

The rest of this sounds good, except honestly 20% damage reduction for the entire raid is a little much for devotion aura.

Oh, and they are already taking away the healing debuff from divine plea. No reason to have that glyph after that happens.
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90 Human Paladin
13130
The glyph mentioned above adds an extra 8% mana return for the retention of the 5 second cast timer.
Edited by Necai on 6/30/2013 9:22 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
2900
-Keep the mastery + EF interaction nerf. Just the initial heal causes a shield.
-Buff the HoT portion of EF by 30-50%.
-Sacred Shield SP scaling increased by 30%.
-Selfless Healer redesigned: Judgment causes your next Daybreak to do 100% more healing.

-HS scales with haste.

-LoD healing increased by 50% and now transfers 25% of healing done to beacon (yes, it would take THAT much to make this spell worth using).

-Devotion Aura now grants party and raid members 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

-Glyph of Divine Plea: Now grants 20% mana but adds a 5 second cast time. Healing debuff removed.


They've already said they are keeping the initial shield from EF, just that the hot can no longer refresh it.

The rest of this sounds good, except honestly 20% damage reduction for the entire raid is a little much for devotion aura.

Oh, and they are already taking away the healing debuff from divine plea. No reason to have that glyph after that happens.


That comment is just me saying that I agree with that change; keep it as it is on PTR.

All you're doing is adding physical reduction to Devotion Aura; it's already 20% for magical.

What the post above said about the glyph. They have to change or remove it since they're getting rid of the MS effect; I think most paladins would like an option like this.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
-Devotion Aura now grants party and raid members 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.


If you want this, Devotion Aura will have to be reduced to a 10 yard range.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
06/30/2013 10:55 AMPosted by Qùess
-Devotion Aura now grants party and raid members 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.


If you want this, Devotion Aura will have to be reduced to a 10 yard range.


Or it will have to be a flat 10% physical/magical instead of 20% because a full raid 20% magic + physical reduction would be a bit ridiculous.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12020

Ixila,
Not that it matters to you, it's just my thing, but I don't really care for "fair weather" players. Playing the class you enjoy through nerfs and buffs, especially nerfs, requires dedication and skill.
More to the point: you said Blizzard should stop making this a numbers game. Yet "a numbers game" is precisely the game you are playing. Re-rolling each expansion or patch to play the most powerful healer and getting upset that you cannot beat such-and-such a class on healing meters shows that you prefer a numbers game.
While the nerf to EF in its current form on the PTR is troubling, we should all provide constructive feedback, not a generalizing rant/whine from fair-weather players whose only goal is to top meters.

I realize this was more than a week ago but I just noticed your comment. I'm not a fair weather player. I played Resto Shammy from the end of BC through the end of Cataclysm, even though they were absolute garbage for most of Cata. When MoP launched I made the decision, for my guild, to switch to Mistweaver since we had two Resto Shammies already. When Patch 5.1 hit, every Mistweaver will tell you that their usefulness completely plummeted, and it was even worse in a 10-man environment. My entire raid, myself included, felt that I was holding us back, plus we had a new Resto Druid and no Holy Pally. So to make loot distribution cleaner and more solid and to help with progression, I switched to Holy Pally since they were worlds better than Monks at the time. Now this is happening.

I don't think what I said was generalized ranting. It is advice for Blizzard to stop trying to balance healers based on healing meters and start balancing them based on their usefulness in raids. When Mistweaver monks were dominating the chart, Blizz had a kneejerk reaction to nerf them, even though they offered zero utility. Now they are doing the same thing to Holy Paladins. I want to stick with Holy Pally even if they're nerfed into the ground, but if I feel that me being in the raid is keeping my guild from progressing, or if the raid leader asks it of me, I'll be glad to switch. I just don't want to have to do it for the second time in an expansion.

As for the recent replies to Holy Paladin, I feel Blizzard is chasing the wrong mark here. Take EF off the talent list and make it into a baseline ability for Holy Paladin. Even if they have to nerf it. That means we would have a cheap HP-spender that lends us a HOT as well. Then they should give us a talent that either gives us a boon to our direct heals or to Light of Dawn. They can't give us a talent that fills a niche our baseline abilities don't cover. That's the main problem here. If we had a HOT as a baseline ability, Eternal Flame wouldn't be as powerful as it is now. Make a talent that has to do with Beacon of Light, maybe something that splashes Beacon healing? I'm not too good with coming up with specific ideas, I just know that Blizz is going down the wrong path.

Either that, or if they want to leave our healing as is, upgrade our utility. Make Holy Paladin Devotion Aura cover physical damage, make Hand of Sacrifice reduce damage on the target by 10% while its active, turn our Guardian of Ancient Kings into a 3minute cooldown or make it do something more "raid-helpful" while its active, like placing a bubble around him or something. I'm fine with being the utility healer if my heals can't cover the damage appropriately, but we need something.
Edited by Ixila on 6/30/2013 6:53 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
New tweets saying they think they can make SS compete with EF.

I'm really interested in what they have in mind because I really see very few options. Honestly as bad as it sounds I see having our own if quite a bit weaker power word shield to spread around in SS.

It's quite hard to make that talent strong. One would either have to get a super powerful single target absorb or one that could be spread around to a good number of targets.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
I'm really interested in what they have in mind because I really see very few options. Honestly as bad as it sounds I see having our own if quite a bit weaker power word shield to spread around in SS.


Seems like that would completely go against the initial reason for nerfing EF being they think absorbs need to be toned down. I will die a little inside if they do it as then it becomes a thinly veiled excuse to nerf a talent.
Edited by Taelaus on 7/1/2013 4:03 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13360
One thing I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread is that ever since the Daybreak "Rework" it has been significantly nerfed.

Before with the old daybreak it would proc when you used it on a single Target, So 100k holy shock, 100k daybreak proc on the same target if no one was nearby. Now however, it will not proc unless there is at least 1 target in range, this is an understandable change, considering how much burst healing you could do before with daybreak/holy shock. However, Daybreak is STILL not transferring through to Beacon of Light. This is a significant loss in on demand healing.

By making Daybreak transfer to Beacon of Light this would help alleviate the problem. Given that you are spending mana to cast a Holy Radiance, expecting a daybreak proc, then you have to waste it to heal a tank if they dip? It isn't exactly good play to ignore the tank when you have an instant you can use. If you make daybreak transfer, it would be no stronger than holy shocking the tank individually (given the lost illuminated healing)

Im not a big math guy, but I did some educated guesswork looking at some of my own and other logs, and on any given fight the Eternal Flame nerf will be about a 5-10% overall nerf in healing.

Im bad at world of logs but I found an average healing done (including overheal) by an eternal flame, and then just estimated and subtracted the healing that would have been done by the initial heal. Leaving the HoT left, and then found out the missed illuminated healing from that and continued on. Anyone WoL savy and would be able to get more concrete math though?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11870
If you want this, Devotion Aura will have to be reduced to a 10 yard range.


All you're doing is adding physical reduction to Devotion Aura; it's already 20% for magical.


Realistically, you are either going to have magic damage going out, or you are going to have physical damage going out, so it's not going to end up being any different than it is now, excepting that it should be useful in every encounter that requires a raid cd. *Curse you fist smash*

Also every post you make in the paladin forums is a blatant QQ, torch burning nerf post against Holy paladins. Coming from a priest, that's very disappointing.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14520
This

Baseline 4 second HS
A giant Divine Light buff to make this spell worth casting, increased strength or make it always give HP
Holy Light always gives HP with full transfer
Range increase on HR
Selfless Healer makes Judgement give HP, and the judgement procs a smart heal
Mop daybreak goes away and we get Cata Daybreak (double holy shocks)
A giant Light of Dawn buff to make this spell not awful.

These are the kinds of things we need to remain remotely competitive.


is absurd and would bring us instantly to the top of heals. we dont need to be !@#$ing gods, but we also don't deserve the massive nerf.
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100 Human Paladin
13820
So Healing Tide Totem is now baseline for Restoration Shaman, which is great for their class. However, I cannot help but feel frustrated over the fact that HTT is becoming baseline for the same reasoning that Eternal Flame had been nerfed dramatically. Eternal Flame was also such a powerful talent for Holy Paladins that there was no other viable choice to be made within the same tier, yet the talent is instead nerfed by a large degree.

Not only that, but because HTT is now baseline, it's also being given the Tranquility/Revival treatment and being significantly buffed for 25 man raiding as well.

I want to remain positive, but it's so hard to in the face of such hypocrisy. Holy Paladins will be the worst healers next tier by a significant margin if we aren't fixed soon, but we have yet to see any word about the supposed compensation buffs that were said to be heading our way.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13440
This

Baseline 4 second HS
A giant Divine Light buff to make this spell worth casting, increased strength or make it always give HP
Holy Light always gives HP with full transfer
Range increase on HR
Selfless Healer makes Judgement give HP, and the judgement procs a smart heal
Mop daybreak goes away and we get Cata Daybreak (double holy shocks)
A giant Light of Dawn buff to make this spell not awful.

These are the kinds of things we need to remain remotely competitive.


is absurd and would bring us instantly to the top of heals. we dont need to be !@#$ing gods, but we also don't deserve the massive nerf.


Obviously we wouldn't get all of these, I quoted that because it's a nice list for blizzard to possibly choose or get ideas from
Edited by Iceadin on 7/5/2013 2:57 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16340
Hi blizzard,

With raid testing undergoing, when can we expect the changes to Holy?
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100 Human Paladin
13820
Hi blizzard,

With raid testing undergoing, when can we expect the changes to Holy?


I'm no spokesman, but if there's any changes that should be happening to Holy Paladins on the PTR, it should be sometime next week in their next PTR update.

Previous updates had issues that kept this from occurring, such as a completely borked T45 and July 4th hogging the developers' time. Come next week, there's really no excuse to not see some changes, any changes, made to the spec.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
Meh they made time to nerf EF, figure if that was their plan that they had changes in mind when they did it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
A faster cast on Holy Light would be great.
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90 Undead Mage
11720
The glyph mentioned above adds an extra 8% mana return for the retention of the 5 second cast timer.


What really?
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90 Tauren Priest
0
Also every post you make in the paladin forums is a blatant QQ, torch burning nerf post against Holy paladins. Coming from a priest, that's very disappointing.


I just looked through my post history for the last month and a half, I don't have a single post in the Paladin forums. I don't think I've posted there since I mained a Paladin...

If you mean in Paladin related threads, you're still incorrect. I haven't said one negative thing about Paladins or a single suggestion that would nerf them in any way. I just approach the situation realistically. Is my dislike for the idea of Devotion Aura being a 40 yard barrier really QQ?

I believe you must be mistaking me for someone else, or you really didn't check my post history.
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