5.4 Holy Paladin Concerns

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11870
I believe you must be mistaking me for someone else, or you really didn't check my post history.


You are absolutely correct and I owe you an apology.
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90 Tauren Priest
9140
You are absolutely correct and I owe you an apology.


That's fine, I just didn't want it seeming like I'm against hpallies. I seek balance for every spec!
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90 Human Paladin
14755
Seal of Insight no longer has a chance to restore mana on attacks.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/54_PTR_Now_Live-7_8_2013#paladin

Sigh.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13225
This is getting ridiculous, they need to stop just throwing out nerf after nerf.
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90 Human Paladin
12970
Sigh.


I wouldn't mind the Seal of Insight nerf if they actually showed progress (if any) made towards fixing our mechanical issues considering Eternal Flame has been dragged out back and shot.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16810
Ok, so this is new after all. Let's see now. They said they would compensate us for the EF nerf. They are doing that...

...wait for it...

...by nerfing us a bit more!

Makes perfect sense.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
07/08/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Sarakatawen
Seal of Insight no longer has a chance to restore mana on attacks.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/54_PTR_Now_Live-7_8_2013#paladin

Sigh.


That's brutal.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
That's irrelevant for some paladins, that's a very brutal nerf for others and overall a nerf regardless.

Wow.
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90 Human Paladin
2900
That's irrelevant for some paladins, that's a very brutal nerf for others and overall a nerf regardless.

Wow.


On some fights that is actually your top regen by a huge amount. So that is......extremely brutal.

Disc, Druid & MW get to basically not have a mana bar, Shamans get mindblowing buffs (which they deserved) and Holy Paladins get....this.

Maybe it is time to go Mistweaver.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
Welcome to the world that mistweavers experienced in the 5.2 PTR

Mark my words you'll get a massive buff a few days before the patch hits.
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90 Human Paladin
14755
I wouldn't mind the Seal of Insight nerf if they actually showed progress (if any) made towards fixing our mechanical issues considering Eternal Flame has been dragged out back and shot.


It's possible that this mana regen nerf comes about because of the changes to Divine Plea which might make it parse out to no difference (just speculation on my part and someone will have to do the math). But along with the EF nerf and absolutely no discussion about compensation it feels like another blow.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
07/08/2013 10:15 PMPosted by Sarakatawen
I wouldn't mind the Seal of Insight nerf if they actually showed progress (if any) made towards fixing our mechanical issues considering Eternal Flame has been dragged out back and shot.


It's possible that this mana regen nerf comes about because of the changes to Divine Plea which might make it parse out to no difference (just speculation on my part and someone will have to do the math). But along with the EF nerf and absolutely no discussion about compensation it feels like another blow.


Not even close.

Also, as bad as it is for holy, it is worse for prot. A haste built protection paladin going full out has a good chance of running out of mana now. Especially on fights where they have to interrupt a lot.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12930
They mentioned buffing Resto Shamans in the next build, so I was hoping to hear from blizzard on the nerf to EF for paladins. But then another nerf?

I honestly do understand the nerf to Seal of Insight, I felt somewhat handicapped if I couldn't be in melee which is never a good design goal. But this is a huge nerf for some fights. Durumu, Lei Shen, Ra-den all great fights where you spend time meleeing. Iron Qon in the last phase is another notable one. Certainly there will be other opportunities for Paladins to be in melee in SoO so this is a Huge nerf. On the above mentioned fights Seal of Insight makes up the largest amount of mana.

Blizzard, you said your intent is not to nerf paladins this patch you are happy with where you are. But so far here is what has been done.

Divine Plea Buff (Welcome, but honestly this should have been removed in T11.)
Nerf to Eternal Flame: Reason being that it was taken too much and you wanted to have more choice for paladins, that is a nerf considering Sacred Shield remains the same, if your intent is to keep paladins the same compensate for this.
Seal of Insight Nerf: Reason Unknown (Speculation above)

It has been a while since set bonuses have been updated but our set bonuses are still insanely weak. They told us not to worry about that they will be tweaked, but still no word no attempts even to change them.

I don't like/buy into the sky is falling mentality, but as far as logic patterns it isn't adding up.

Your goal as stated by you was to make certain talents more appealing because they were taken too often. So you Nerf Eternal Flame (Mastery stacking is a sizable nerf). Ok, makes sense if you give us a buff elsewhere, nothing. Continue to Nerf Insight, something has to be coming.

PS: Healing Tide Totem is always taken by resto shamans, so you give it to them baseline. I agree Resto Shamans are in a poor position, but why the change in philosophy? Why not just nerf HTT like EF? Or make EF baseline?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
I'm starting to be a little afraid it's just going to be a throughput buff. The mechanic changes need to happen soon. There is a lot to do.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
Well luckily enough we were already one fo the classes with infinite mana. Oh wait a minute, we aren't.

Are the interns running the asylum this summer?
Edited by Taelaus on 7/9/2013 11:55 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17785
Honestly, with the changes they made to the battle healer glyph, it would simply be too overpowered to be able to melee to full mana as well as smart heal the raid, even if the heal was small. That is not to say that the SoI mana nerf is detrimental to our overall regen.
Perhaps the better way for them to go about it is to keep having SoI return mana, but that the glyph would exchange that mana gain for the smart heal.

I agree that Paladins are in a pretty bad situation on the PTR right now, but GC has mentioned numerous times that they are aware of how weak Paladins are right now and that changes are indeed coming. Keep in mind that they release many PTR builds with smaller changes, it's not like we will see a big patch like 5.4 with major class changes get released in just 4 or 5 PTR cycles.

The only part that concerns me right now is that they made no mention of how weak our set bonuses are compared to other classes.
Edited by Shahz on 7/9/2013 12:03 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
even if the heal was smal


I honestly don't think this was ever relevant. Or should have been. The healing from the glyph for holy paladins is abysmally small.
Edited by Marathel on 7/9/2013 12:10 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
15480
The healing from the glyph for holy paladins is abysmally small.


Agreed, vengence is what threw it out of whack. It is clearly aimed at breaking prot pally haste stacking. They enjoy preaching that they like people to play differently. I like running in and meleeing and then running back out before ranged targeted abilities are cast.

Maybe the paladin specs are tied too closely together. I dunno, just know this wasn't needed as holy.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17785
Now that you mentioned it, a friend told me that the mana nerf to SoI could potentially get haste stacking prot paladins to run oom. It does appear that this is a nerf to prot that spilled over to holy.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Yeah. It's a very harsh nerf to prot pallies. But I really do not know if the developers intended or noticed the nasty spillover it would have for holy paladins as well.
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