Topic Hunter Revamp
Edited by Orthes on 6/22/13 11:22 PM (PDT)
Hunters need a rework. I've seen a ton of people complaining about this recently and no one can deny that all 3 specs are too similar. The same can be said for rogues. Blizz seems to agree as well, but claims they don't know how to go about doing it. I have a few ideas about how to go about it. (Not saying "This is the way to go about it", but rather suggesting to Blizz a few ways they can go about thinking about it).
First off, for all specs, change how they all work. Now, it's basically make sure you have enough focus for your main ability when it comes off cd, use arcane to dump, use ss/cs to build focus, mixing in the individual specs own CDs and your talent choices. Talent choices in particular have more of an impact on rotation/priorities than anything else, which brings me to my next point.
Hunter talents have 2 tiers of damage dealing talents, and they are all very different. Take away one of them, bake in some of that uniqueness into the specs, and give a fresh tier of talents based on something else. I'll explain what I think would be fun and unique. I'm only going over main damage rotation/priority, utility can literally almost be tacked on. However, each specs focus regen will be different, so focus cost for the utility will need to be balanced.
(I dont put in specific damage numbers. I'm not a math person, but I'm sure each of these abilities can be tuned to work.)
Marksman - The MM spec is something I see as relying less on a pet and more on focused ranged attacks. I think the spec should either lose the pet or reduce it's damage to about 5-7% of our total damage. The main abilities of MM that I think would be most fun:
Aimed shot: 1.5 sec cast, main focus dump. About 20 focus cost. Would replace AS.
Piercing Shot: Deals small % wep damage and puts a debuff on the target, increasing all damage done by the hunter's shots by X% and making the target bleed for X damage. Lasts 15 seconds.
Quick Shot: Deals 20% weapon damage, generates 5 focus.
Chimera Shot: 4 sec cast, costs 30 focus. Ticks from Piercing and hits from Aimed shot while piercing is up have a 40% chance to give a stack of <Insert epic name here>. Each stack reduces the cast time and focus cost of CS by 33.3% (IE: cast time goes down, eventually into instant).
Powershot is base line, with a 15 second CD, is instant and costs 20 focus. Can be glyphed to provide knockback, knockback is no longer baked in. Damage reduced accordingly, does not deal as much damage to enemies in between the hunter and the target or knock them back if glyphed. (CS crits reduce cd by 1 sec?)
Multi shot now has a cast time of 2 secs, but your next 3 aimed shot/quick shots will hit all enemies around the target within 10 yards for X% damage. Quick shot hits will generate additional focus for each enemy hit. 30 focus cost.
Master Marksman: For 10 seconds, CS is instant cast and costs 50% less focus. 1 min cd.
Rapid Fire - Increases focus regen by 100% and makes aimed shot instant for 15 seconds. 2 min cd.
Overall, I want this spec to be about ranged attacks. Essentially, you would keep up piercing debuff, use aimed shot as a focus dump, quick shot as a focus generator, CS when you can, and PS when you can. Pretty similar to current specs in some ways, especially current MM, just with steady shot and arcane shot cast time thing reversed.
Survival - Survival I see as being based on dots and traps. So I have thought about a spec based around them. This spec keeps arcane shot as a focus dump. Focus regen is different - Each serpent sting tick gives X amount of focus, and cannot be dispelled in any way.
AS: Current form. Costs 25 focus, damage tuned to fit with rotation.
Explosive shot: Current form. CD can't be reset (IE: no LnL). Costs 30 focus. CD increased to 8 seconds, and deals damage every second for 6 seconds. Damage adjusted so it is not great, but a much better option than AS.
Serpent Sting: Deals less damage than currently, but generates our focus. No damage is dealt instantly, its all a dot. Ticks every second. (Generates 10-15 focus? Diminishes with each enemy effected.). Lasts 20 seconds. 8 second CD. CD is reset if the target is killed. (Though i could see this being a problem in early levels). CD is there to make sure focus regen doesnt get ridiculous on add fights.
Black arrow: 15 second CD, becomes our main damage dot. Lasts 10-14 seconds. 30 focus cost. When hit, every enemy within 10 yards is also afflicted by a version of Black Arrow that deals 50% normal damage. Can stack, but 2 stacks should not equal double damage. Should be noticeably more, but not too much.
Bear trap: Physical trap. Can be placed like any other, but a minor glyph allows it to be used automatically on our current target. Arms instantly. The trap clamps down on the target, dealing X damage initially and X amount of nature damage over 20 seconds. Each hit has a X% chance to reset the cooldown on Black Arrow and reduce its focus cost by 50%. Regular 30 second CD.
<Insert boring name here> shot: Inflicts 20% weapon damage. No focus cost, no CD.
Survivalist: Bear trap becomes Gigantor bear trap and now affects all enemies within 10 yards of the target (Whether the target was trapped by the unglyphed version or targeted by the glyphed version). Damage and % chance to refresh black arrow reduced. Toggleable.
A murder of crows: current form, no focus cost. Damage increased, CD reduced to 1.5 minutes. Annoying effect of crows surrounding the target minimized or removed.
<Insert awesome surv name here>: CD on explosive shot removed for 15 seconds. Deals the dot damage instantly.
Readiness: Current form, and also refreshes the CD on black arrow.
This spec is about keeping up SS on a target, 2 if you can. There is no focus generating shot, but there is a shot to spam if you are building in anticipation for ES or BA. Black arrow becomes our main source of damage, and will become stackable up to 3-5 , but stacks dont multiply the damage. BA will do a lot of damage even at 1 stack, but not too much more at 5, so that there isn't some kind of insanely long ramp up time. AOE baked into BA and the Survivalist toggle, no multi shot.
Beast Mastery - Relies a lot on your pet. Pet gets a nerf to basic abilities, but should be compensated for in active abilities like KC. This way, CCing the hunter reduces a lot of the damage output and BM isn't looked at like a mongo spec. More of the damage will be from the pet, but it should be active - ie, not autoattacks, but rather KC and the Sick 'Em buff. Pet needs a passive damage reduction and some CC immunity/resistance so it isn't too easy to stop BM damage in PVP. Not much else I can say, so I'll get right into it.
Beast Shot: Similar to arcane shot, but damage is split 75% to 25%. 75% is you, and 25% is done via your pet. Like 2 hits in one. 35 focus cost. The damage dealt by your pet is also dealt to all enemies within 10 yards. Applies the buff: Sick 'Em. All damage dealt by your pet is increased by 10% for 5 seconds.
Opportunity Shot: Instantly Deals X Damage. Free focus, but can not be used unless triggered by KC. Tuned to do less damage than Beast Shot, but still worth the global as it is free. Also applies the Sick 'Em Buff.
Kill Command: Deals X damage, does 25% damage instantly and the rest over 8 seconds as a bleed. 40 focus cost. I didn't want this to be something you wait to come off CD with, but rather something to think about. When attacking an enemy with 20% health or lower, the damage is dealt instantly, but has a 6 second CD. KC has a 30% chance of permitting the use of 2 opportunity shots. Maximum of 5 charges lasting 20 seconds.
Tickle command: Deals pathetic damage from your pet instantly, but your pet regenerates X amount of focus over 6 seconds. 10 second CD. Each time you use tickle command, you gain a buff called <Insert epic name here>. It causes your next Beast Shot or next KC to deal X% increased damage, including the dot. Overall, it would be better to use this on KC for single target, and Beast Shot for AOE.
Hunters mark becomes Beast Mark: All damage done by you and your pet increased by 5%. In addition, tickle command now regenerates X amount of the Hunter's focus over 3 seconds (Small amount, maybe 10 or 15). Instantly applied by KC and Beast Shot.
Bestial Cry: You and your pet let out a war cry, increasing focus regen by X amount for X amount of seconds. 1.5 sec channel, can be done while moving. Pet does not channel it, can still auto shoot while channeling. I want this to have to be re-used enough and provide just the right amount of focus regen to where Beast Shot can not used very often, but the mechanic itself and pace of the spec are not annoying. Perhaps a 10 or 12 second duration? The amount of focus this ability generates should be enough to use some beast shots, but will have to wait a bit in order to use KC on cooldown. I just don't want Beast Shot to become spammable for the duration, otherwise its damage will have to be nerfed. BM will still have some bursty damage.
Blink Strikes is baseline until pets aren't completely stupid.
Barrage is baseline. Damage reduced by X%, but 40% of it's damage is also done by your pet. Focus cost increased to 40. Should be a dps increase against 3 or more targets. 15 second CD.
Beast Shot is filler AOE and some free cleave.
Lynx Rush is baseline and changed. For the next 5 seconds, all damage dealt by your pet is duplicated and applied as a dot that lasts 10 seconds. (Like pet does 1000 damage within the 5 second duration - a dot is applied afterward that lasts 10 seconds and deals 1000 damage.) The amount of damage dealt by the AOE aspect of Beast Shot is increased by 50%. 45 second CD. This allows it to also be a good AOE CD. (Might need a nerf to 75% or 50% damage done)
Rapid Strikes: Pet and Hunter focus regen increased by 30% (Includes the amount of focus generated by Tickle Command and Bestial Cry). Allows the use of 2 Opportunity Strikes. Lasts 15 seconds, 1.5 minute CD.
Bestial Wrath no longer increases damage dealt by your pet and has no effect on the hunter. Used only as a CC break.
This spec is about watching your Bestial Cry and Sick 'Em buffs and timing your Kill Command to line up with the buff from Tickle Command and Sick 'Em. You have to think about whether or not you can use the filler shot because there is no on demand way to generate focus. KC also becomes a useful execute. I also like the way Lynx Rush would work in this spec. There are a couple buffs to make sure you can line up before activating it, and the pay off can be great. Overall, I think this spec is a lot about thinking of what you're going to do next and when you're going to do it. Similar to Feral now, but less annoying.
(No, I dont want it to be named Tickle Command. Thats just a stand in until I feel like coming up with decent names for everything. Suggestions?)
Well thats it. Not perfect, but the best I could think of and I think they are quite workable. I feel like each spec will have a unique pace and mechanic to work with. It took about 4 hrs to write this, which was 3 hrs more than I was planning, so I did get quite tired and the write up of BM and some of SV could be a bit out of whack, but the overall idea is there. Leave me some feedback/error corrections and I'll be happy to consider/change it. Thanks for reading, and PLZ revamp hunters ala Warlock.
Hey dude got some good ideas, but tbh I think it's just arcane shot. I made a thread on the damage dealing forums about it, it's called "why buff arcane shot?"
Blizz devs actually do read that forum, so maybe copy your ideas into a topic there
Hey dude got some good ideas, but tbh I think it's just arcane shot. I made a thread on the damage dealing forums about it, it's called "why buff arcane shot?"
It's more than arcane shot. Can't just replace one filler with a filler that acts the exact same way. Right now, it's just keeping up a dot, using filler, and keeping up enough focus to use the signature ability. Survival also has black arrow and MM has aimed shot, I guess. But going from one spec to another is very little change. It's functional atm, but the whole class would be much more fun if the specs were completely different, which means a complete rework for all the abilities and not just arcane shot.
Edited by Orthes on 6/22/13 11:23 PM (PDT)
You use the filler so much that the buff/debuff is pretty much always up and it's not even a mechanic to keep up - it might as well just be baked in. Like Hunter's Mark now - hardly anyone pays attention to it when focusing a target. But I think a mechanic like that would be best for this version of BM, as using the filler shot would be rare enough that it would actually make you think if you want to hit the shot now for damage or save it for later to keep up the buff.
Edit: Worked in a buff to maintain for BM and an extra unique shot. Buff is kept up by filler and the new shot.
Edited by Gryzor on 6/23/13 6:18 AM (PDT)
Some interesting ideas here. Not 100% sold on the concept (major class changes that necessitate a gross relearning of the playstyle can turn away customers), but it's a start.
For example, reworking Chimera Shot into that form ( a 4 second cast??) effectively transforms it into a weird mutant child of Steady Shot's Master Marksman effect, with the same RNG problems compounded by a much bigger cast time.
I don't agree with Bear Trap being nature damage. Wouldn't that cause it to be dispelled, which was the main problem with SV PvP in the first place? I believe the original intent (in Cata anyway) was for it to be a root + bleed.
EDIT: My initial conclusion is that I see a lot of skill synergy being attempted here: buffs / debuffs affecting one another in calculated manners. You might want to cut down on some of the complexity. Not necessarily by reducing the number of CDs but by thinking about it in terms of accessibility. Here I see flavor playstyle done nicely, but things could be simplified a bit--especially BM and MM.
Edited by Orthes on 6/23/13 10:06 AM (PDT)
Some interesting ideas here. Not 100% sold on the concept (major class changes that necessitate a gross relearning of the playstyle can turn away customers), but it's a start.
The idea behind MM is that you wouldn't use chimera shot unless it was instant and free, and with the high % chance to get a stack of that buff, the intention is that it will happen often, much more so than the current version. Especially considering it can be triggered by the bleed and the filler shot. Though I think it could work out well if it refreshed piercing shot's duration. That could help a bit with cleave fights and take some of the complexity away.
For Surv, I chose nature damage for the bear trap to go with their mastery. I definitely don't want SS to be dispelled if its that much of their focus, but we can't have that much of their damage be unavoidable. Perhaps if dispelled, it automatically triggers the black arrow effect?
With BM, I want the player to think about the pet buff uptime and to time their attacks to maximize that, but not to punish them too much if they can't/don't. A player who doesn't want to deal with that can just channel the Bestial Cry ability once every so often or when they can't do anything else, hit (Tickle) Command on CD, hit Opportunity Strikes when they can, and make sure they can use KC every 8 seconds. But the more you min/max it, the more you get out of it.
Thanks for the response. It was a lot harder to come up with unique concepts for a focus-based class than I thought. Let me know if theres anything else in particular I should change.
EDIT: Also, I don't think a change is really that bad. For people who like the current playstyle, I think the new MM is closest to that. Warlocks got a much needed change going into MoP so I don't see why the same can't be done for hunters next xpac.
Don't like MM, but I think MM should be more of a turret than the other specs. The problem with turreting is PVP and many PVE encounters now require almost constant motion. Trying to synergize a special ability or abilities with long cast times reduces the opportunity to use them ecxept in cases like stacked trash.
For MM to be a heavy hitting shooter, he'd have to be gimped in movement otherwise he'd be likely be too powerful in PVP especially. By the same token, if he's got good mobility he'd have to have less powerful shots. Which doesn't seem right for a marksman spec.
Survival: I don't really like removing it from LnL. That's one of the few things that separate it from BM: free procs. Makes it feel a bit like Frost Mages/DK's with free procs. Making it just a filler shot, puts it where Black Arrow is now. Feeling undertuned and underwhelming. Black Arrow should proc LnL Explosive shot more, and might be fun if it were a DoT you could apply to Multishot. Making Survival even more AoE bursty. Traps are an interesting mechanic, but outside of premade groups you lose too much of their benefit with twitchy tanks, poison mazes, boss AoE, etc. They're great when you can clump stuff and nuke it, but once you hit that boss encounter or Arena match, not so much.
Beastmaster has a stronger reliance on pets, yes. But we also suffer the most from buggy pet AI. Since that issue is not likely to be resolved at all, expanding on the pet reliance is problematic. *Note: running an SV goblin up to 40 this morning pets had several issues. Inconsistantly autoflagging Growl back on. Coming back mid battle. Autoattacking on a mob or pack well out of aggro range, and often not even in the groups' path. And I don't have Blink yet so it isn't that. On this guy I've noticed pets moving to attack or attacking "focused" targets. Things I've left clicked but haven't attacked or sent them to attack.
As per pets: I think we could keep the taming ability across the board, but change how pets affect the specs. BM would still have the strongest pets and most reliance on pets. But I could see survival getting utility "spells" from specific pets. I.E. Keeping a spider and a gorilla in their on hand stable would grant them a snare and stun on shared cooldown. While Marks gets stronger passive enhancements. Say the pet's basic buff becomes player only but gets doubled. Same deal: 5 pets, unique buffs on shared CD.
I don't think you can take away movement from hunters now. It's like KJC - its a part of the class now.
Perhaps for Survival, pet hits/crits have a chance to proc LnL, but using the 2nd charge triggers the CD? The plan was to make Explosive Shot deal a fair bit of damage, so getting 3 back to back would be a bit much. It wouldn't be undertuned. For bear trap, thats why I suggested a glyph to make it usable on your target. I think the 3 specs would all feel very different this way.
Also, hoping for next xpac that Blizz gets pet bugs sorted out. I've never had problems like that with my pet, where it would go attack something that I only clicked on or something. I just have problems getting it back to me, or attacking quick enough. Macroing pet abilities to regular abilities helps a lot with this though.
Lock and Load is probably my favorite thing on my dwarf and goblin. Especially with the trap synergy and multiple procs. Makes the routine a bit more varied and interesting. Sans LnL, like my goblin who just turned 40, the gameplay is essentially the same as BM. Serpent Sting, KC/ES, Arcane shot, steady for regen.
Traps are great with LnL when you've got a big stacked group of trash. Not so much in a single boss fight or high movement fight when you can't keep the trap on the mobs. This is where Black Arrow falls off. Doesn't proc nearly as often and doesn't "feel" worth the effort. Making traps into shots makes traps into shots. It removes the whole mechanic of the trap don't see the developers changing that.
I think the best way to differentiate SV would be increased emphasis on DoT's. Maybe add a second? Serpent being a poison/nature, maybe have Explosive shot spark or ember on nearby mobs for shadow? Traps remain basically the same: situational. Since that seems to be how fights are designed now.
Edited by Gryzor on 6/23/13 9:31 PM (PDT)
Guillotaur has several good points. Which brings us back to the original intent: what is each Hunter spec really all about in light of the general description of the class?
What I like about the OP's idea is that he brings the whole thing back to what really separates each and every spec, what makes them unique, and goes from there. As I stated, I'm not too keen on some of his suggestions since they tend to be very dramatic revamps tending more on the complex side with lots of buff/debuff stack management. But he does address a core issue very clearly.
Since I started in Wrath and PvP'ed in all 3 specs, what I can say is this:
MM felt like more of a ranged nuker. Long, bursty CDs, synergy between Chimera Shot and the various stings we used to have, and a reasonable MS with Aimed Shot. The pet was used far more for utility than damage, doing only 10-15% of the Hunter's damage but bringing tools to the table such as roots, stuns, disorients and disarms (though Chim Shot + Scorpid Sting provided that as well).
BM excelled in its mitigation abilities and the synergy between hunter and pet, especially the exotics and the ability to shorten pet CDs. Sure, SV increased your stamina, but BM also gave you and your pet extra armor and probably the only form of Hunter self heal at the time. At a point when I couldn't excel at MM PvP, I switched to BM, grabbed a Chimera and watched the body count increase. It was my preferred anti-caster spec.
SV was great with its steady magical damage based on DoTs and improved trap functionality, meant to address scaling issues with a steady stream of oncoming damage ticks until you get better gear. Hack for a while in WotLK we even got Trap Dancing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s14IuqIJqpg), something that was admittedly fun to do despite being clunky due to how traps work. While it had trouble with casters, I could effectively punch through plate. Let's just say Retadins tended to hate me then. I was sad when it got nerfed after 4.0.6 due to Mastery affecting the damage scaling and causing Cobra Shot to hit for insane amounts (similar to how Mastery affected the 4th tier of Hunter talents, which inadvertently skewed the tide of Hunter DPS in favor of BM at the start of MoP).
So the questions the OP really wishes to pose and address is: what is the Hunter all about, and from that what would each Hunter spec therefore excel in?
So we have:
MM - ranged nuker. The OP seems to want to build him as a turret of sorts. Guillotaur points out the inherent flaw in this when it comes to modern day fight mechanics, PvE or PvP. There are lots of movement heavy fights now and as the OP has pointed out using KJC, Hunters have really gotten too used to being able to cast while moving as baseline (there was a schism concerning this during the beta and 5.0.4. I was one of those who argued for a drastic Aspect redesign to make Aspect Dancing more interesting, while others just wanted Fox removed and SS/CS mobile casting made baseline).
BM - Based around pet control and synergy, with more emphasis on active Hunter participation instead of passive NPC damage. From what I gather, your idea seems to revolve around the Hunter actively "powering up" the pet, then unleashing a KC at the right moment while maintaining focus.
SV - Traps, positioning, steady damage and pressure. I would indeed prefer maintaining LnL over anything else, though. Notice how in its current form SV's primary source of burst damage revolves around that (which is probably why they adjusted ES' damage to compensate). Lay traps, shoot Black Arrow, wait for LnL to proc, blast away. What I and many others here (including those of us in this thread) would love to see is some form of dispel protection for SV's DoTs. Like proccing LnL on dispelling Black Arrow, or causing Serpent Sting to burst for the total damage (or the remainder of it) if dispelled.
I like Guillotaur's idea of Pets doing something different for each spec, but given how the core Hunter design is coded into the game it would be quite a beast to implement. A considerable portion of why the devs could not implement changes so easily is that the game engine itself limits the number of options they could possibly take (consider: buggy pet AI).
Hunters with Tenacity pets like Warpstalkers, Crabs and Scorpids even brought to the table Intervene + Last Stand, the Hunter's premiere dot / burst protection at the time. I can't count how many times this ability has saved me in PvP. When I found out how Blizz removed it from Tenacity pets in MoP, I was more than a little dismayed. My trusty Shale Spider almost got shelved for that very reason until I learned how to compensate by speccing him into Cunning (which didn't take long to learn). Even if they weren't pet-dependent like BM, MM and SV got a lot of mileage out of pet utility in those days.
When i think of a survival hunter i think of John Locke. He uses a knife and uses traps. What about if sv wields daggers? And maybe has poisons like a rogue. Just shooting off an idea here.
That was the Vanilla SV hunter, who can dual wield among other things. It was also the origin of the whole Hunter Weapon joke. Not sure we'd want to go back there.
A considerable portion of why the devs could not implement changes so easily is that the game engine itself limits the number of options they could possibly take (consider: buggy pet AI).
Don't know programming, but my thought process was like this.
Survival tames a spider as per normal. Instead of having Web on the spider's bar, the hunter gets access to it on his bar. Pet can be kept out, can be active or passive, can keep or lose it's taskbar. Building on the deck building aspect of pre-Nerf Stampede. Make pet swapping a little faster, not much. So SV can get the utility spells from their stabled pets. Or maybe have access to all the spells in the stable, on a shared cooldown.
Marksman tames his wolf as normal. Gets a Marks only increased crit buff. Maybe double the current version. Same thing as SV pets out, either active or passive (whichever is easiest to code). Hunter getting access to increased stabled pet buffs. Increased crit for burn phases. Swap to crit protection during damage phases.
Essentially keeping the pets the same. But giving more access and control of pet utility and buffs to the player than the pet. Which would also help with the pathing problem. The abilities moving to the hunter would remove the pathing issue.
BM could work the same way. He's got a bigger, stronger pet. But he could build a stable around how he wanted to buff his pet. Have a stable full of spirit beasts, get a bigger Spirit Mend. Have 5 direhorns: larger health pool, bigger shield. Bring 5 chimera's and get a boost to AoE. Or mix and match and see what happens.
Basically this takes the concept of deck building that was OP in Stampede. Keeps it from being too OP since abilities would share cooldowns and individual abilities could be micro tuned (as if). And makes the on hand stable more immediately functional. Perhaps increase it to 6 in 6.0. Where you could go all out with 6 of the same thing. Or doubles for 3 abilities with slight increases.
FYI: Never got to use a super spirit mend from stampede. Or build a buff deck. Only been resubbed since right before 5.3. So I've basically been back just in time for constant rolling nerfs. But reading about the pros and cons of these abilities led into this concept. Keep the FUN of pet abilities while keeping them manageable.
Hunters and rogues alike need the warlock treatment but for whatever reason blizzard just doesn't want to give it to them... In fact hunters and rogues need the warlock treatment more than the warlocks did.
So many good ideas here.
I can't speak about BM or SV very much, but as a MM I agreed with most of them (Turreting and everything). I play MM based on strategy and positioning, focusing on CC rather than nukin' people (Also because I'm undergeared, so things aren't that easy and I use this 'no gear moment' to learn different things). I think that most people would suffer from a huge playstyle change as stated above, simply because today it's pretty much easy to dump damage as a hunter (the hard aspect of the class IMO is the CC). If MM became a turret sniping down people with casted skills, players would complain like hell from the "limits" that beign idle to cast brings in PvP and PvE. But I do like this idea. That would bring some interesting uses of the Camouflage skill to the line too, also some sinergy with other CC from the class itself and team mates. That's how I feel about a MM with the suggestion around: Strategy over anything else!
I can't speak much because I'm quite new to the class, but once I've more to add, I'll come back.
The newbie Artheran
I don't think they need to do anything drastic to make the specs feel right again.
Give BM back Intimidate. Give back pet CC and pet buffs ect... Basically unnerf them all the way back to BC. BW 15 seconds of complete immunity. The PvP spec or choice but not as good pve.
Give MM Silence shot. Make it the weapon based spec where the pet barely matters. Bring back old school multi shot and bring back the hail of arrows ability thingy. The pve spec of choice.
Give Surv back Wyvern Sting. Make this spec more based around traps, dots, aoe, and general survivability. Good in all situations.
Basically go back in time.
8 Goblin Warrior
Two suggestions, one post this in a forum Blizzard actually goes to and reads. You have come up with something that the community is not ready to destroy while posting on a Warlock. Do it, seriously, just go to the DDF or PTR and post it.
Second don't be discouraged by those of us (myself included on this) who have lost faith in anything involving Blizzard and this class. Keep up this good work, I don't agree with everything but it's a good post anyways.
I have noticed many threads across many different forums, particularly the ones here, talking about the want for a hunter overhaul. I agree with this whole heartedly, and while i know that any such idea would probably not be implemented, i feel that a thread highlighting possibilities in a constructive and cohesive way might lend to a possible conversation (or even silent ackowledgement) between us and the people who help run the game.
Many of the thought processes are focused around the differentiation of the three hunter specs. I agree with using the overhaul with this idea in mind. Right now the hunter specs are fairly close in terms of ability usage and overall feel, with bm being slightly more out there. The hunter specs are all about keeping up serpent sting, using your large damage cooldown focus dump, using arcane shot to dump focus, and a focus regen shot to generate focus, with one or two extra hiccups thrown in depending on spec. This needs to change in order for the specs to feel distinct once more.
Beast Mastery -
BM is, while dubious in a pvp sense, the most well-defined and 'different' of the hunter specs. However, this is limited in their their special ability (kill command) is little more than a different way to say 'Beast Mastery focus dump cooldown shot' as opposed to 'survival focus dump cooldown shot'. First, i believe we should remove cobra shot, serpent sting, and arcane shot from bm. Instead of those.. we add these new spec-defining abilities
Call of the Viper - 25 focus. Summons a viper pet to attack the target. This pet will put damage poisons on the target, and lasts until its focus runs out. It will have large enough health and avoidance. Ideally, this ability will be able to be glyphed to add mind numbing or slow poisons instead of damage poisons.
Treat Shot - instant, no cooldown. deals low nature damage and restores focus to you and all your pets (including the viper pet above).
Wild Shot - 15 focus, 2 second cast time. Deals moderate physical damage and summons a pet helper based on your current pet's spec for a short while (12 ish seconds). Ferocity summons a pet that deals slightly more damage than the others and puts a debuff on the target that increases damage taken from pets, cunning summons a pet that heals nearby allies for a small amount, and tenacity summons a pet that splits damage with your pet.
Kill Command - 50 focus. large pet damage attack, like currently. Additionally, any other pets you have active will also attack the target for an (lesser than your main pet but relevant) amount of damage.
Bestial wrath - 2 minute cooldown. Increases the damage dealt by you and your pets by 20% for 10 seconds, and makes your pets immune to crowd control effects. Additionally, while bestial wrath is active your pets cannot die and summoned pets will not despawn.
New Passive effects -
Animal husbandry - You are healed for a small percentage of the healing done to your pets. Your pets are healed for a small percentage of the healing done to you.
Combat Veternarianism - Wild Shot reduces the cast time of your next revive pet by 10%. stacks up to 10 times, lasts for 15 seconds.
I believe that these abilities could make beast mastery into a true master of beasts, summoning pets and exercising finesse and control over them by managing their focus and your focus, in a way that is different from what we are used to now.
I really like the idea behind MM, but not so much the execution. I believe that if MM was more fun/interesting to play, more people might start playing it. Right now MM has steady shot, aimed shot, and chimera shot going for it. A few quality of life changes could go a long way into making MM more distinct and interesting.
Vicious Shot - Replaces arcane shot. 25 Focus, Instant, medium physical damage shot. Applies the raid bleed damage debuff.
Scorpid Sting - Replaces serpent sting. 15 Focus, instant, lasts for 18 seconds. Deals physical nature damage (like chimera shot) every 6 seconds. The dot ticking rate will scale with haste. Chimera will refresh this.
Quiver of Elune - 3 minute cooldown. When Used, an eye of elune will form at your target's location if it is within 40 yards, which lasts 10 seconds. Allies standing within 40 yards of the eye will gain 20% critical strike damage. While the eye of elune is active, you will be able to target enemies within the line of sight of the eye as if they were in your own line of sight. Additionally, you will spawn an arrow of elune nearby every 2 seconds while the eye is active (See elune's arrows).
New Passive effects -
Deuces Wild - Whenever you trigger Steady Aim, your next shot that costs focus has a 100% chance to critically strike. Stacks up to 3 times.
New Mastery - Elune's Arrows - Your damaging shots have a 10% chance to cause an arrow of elune to fall on the floor nearby that only you can see. Your Critical strikes have a 20% chance to trigger this. Moving over this arrow will instantly fire it at your target, dealing X% (Base 70%) physical damage. Arrows last 3 minutes.
Cauterizing Buckshot - Your scatter shot cauterizes its target, consuming any damage over time effects on it, and also deals extra instant damage equal to the remaining piercing shot damage on the target.
The idea behind these changes is to make MM dinstinct by giving it an entirely new mechanic to play with, similar to the healing spheres pioneered by monks, except you will be able to save these up for bursty damage instead of bursty heals. Giving crits to steady aim is a good way to make all double steady shots 'matter', as opposed to just refreshing steady aim. Quiver of elune gives some much-needed raid utility and is a useful pvp spell, in addition to giving them another dps cooldown.
I like where survival is ideologically, but it still feels somewhat 'wrong' to have a spec for the only ranged physical class focused on magic damage, especially so many different types of magic damage (five of them!). That and it has no actual survivability. That said, i think that survival is in a good place with regards to being cohesive. I think that survival should be more trap oriented, and be mid-range instead of long range, to make it distinctive. Survival would keep cobra and explosive shot(but explosive shot would get a slightly longer cooldown), but get new abilities as well. Lock and load wouldnt really have a place here, so it would be removed as well.
Snapfrost Shot - Replaces arcane shot. instant, no cooldown, 20 focus shot, deals frost damage and applies a 'chilled' debuff to the target. upon reaching 4 stacks, debuff changes to 'frosty', causing the next snapfreeze shot to deal increased damage.
Amalgamation Shot - Replaces black arrow. instant, 35 focus shot, deals fire, frost, and nature damage instantly, with a 22 second cooldown. Debuffs the target to take increased damage from explosive/immolation/snake trap, suffer increased slow from frost trap, and causes the next freezing trap on the target to be able to take a medium amount of damage before it breaks.
Survivalist - 2 minute cooldown. For 10 seconds, your frost and freezing, and your immolation and explosive traps have their cooldowns unlinked. additionally, your damaging traps placed under the effect of survivalist will deal increased damage.
New Passive effects -
Master of Traps - You may lay or launch traps while you are casting cobra or amalgamation shot. Using a trap ability while it is placed causes it to activate (does not use the GCD), but costs focus (figure 10-15). An activated immolation trap deals instant fire damage to all targets within 10 yards, and an activated freezing trap freezes the closest target within 10 yards.
Entrapment - Whenever your frost or snake traps are triggered... (Manual activations will not cause entrapment).
Thrill - Whenever one of your traps is activated or triggered, you are healed for 5% of your max health. A frost/freezing activation/trigger increases the focus regen of your next cobra shot. An immolation/explosive activation/trigger increases the damage of your next frost shot. A snake activation/trigger increases the damage of your next fire shot.
Black Ice - Moving over your frost trap effect grants you 40% increased movement speed. Any allies in your party or raid group who move over your frost trap gain 40% movement speed for 4 seconds, but this can only occur for each person once every 2 minutes.
These changes make survival trap oriented without (ideally) the trouble that comes with trying to make traps hit bosses reliably (due to the on demand activation).
Edited by Inkarran on 6/27/13 7:41 AM (PDT)
Also some of the final tier talents i think need to be changed. Id like to see glavie toss replace arcane shot/concussive shot, for hunters if you spec into it. Completely makes sense. Does good dmg and slows (if you spec into it)
Power shot. This talent should be different depending on spec.
Survival, powershot increases the dmg of Explosive shot and gives it a chance to (explode) causing additional dmg to all targets within 5 yards of the primary target OR (not both) gives explosive shot a chance to spread black arrow to additional targets
MarksMen. Aimed shot now has a 50 percent higher chance to crit and Master marksmen now procs more often. Also, chimera shot, steady shot, and multi-shot now have a chance to apply piercing shots.
Beast Mastery. Kill command now deals additional dmg and has a chance to activate beast cleave hitting all targets around the beast within 5 yards.
Barrage needs to replace multi-shot. Doing the same things that multi-shot does for each class (chances to proc bombardment, serpent spread, and beast cleave) and extend the cd of mult-shot by 4 seconds or something. Id like something cool from barrage. But sadly its just a lackluster idea imo. We already have multi-shot
Just ideas to help increase our dmg scaling and (though i like the knock back from power shot it kinda sucks as a move).
I said this on another post not long ago, kinda figured it needed a place here. I dont want drastic changes. Just improvements. No real playstyle changes.
I do need more creative ideas for the other 2 choices however. Power Shot changes would make it required so the other 2 need work
Edited by Gryzor on 6/27/13 9:32 PM (PDT)
Keep the ideas rolling folks. There's some interesting concepts coming in lately from various people here.
My purpose in redirecting a few people onto posting their ideas in this thread instead of making new ones so the Hunter community can easily see which ideas are trending and which ones are just way out there. That way when we finally post something in the Developer Discussion or PTR forums we have something that is more or less substantial and unified to say about our proposed overhaul.
Right now I'm seeing that BM seems to be the hardest spec to nail down compared to SV (trap oriented, dots, steady damage and CC) and MM (long ranged nukes, controlled burst and kiting). OP suggested a "pet buff" rotation, while Persequosi's idea revolves more around a variation of Dire Beast, with hunter-pet synergy in the form of shared healing thrown in. Admittedly the idea of a "master of wild beasts" is quite vague, but I like the thought of additional control over my pet's performance compared to the other two specs.
I'm planning to throw in my own suggestions by installment, as they take quite a while to think about.