hpally stat weights

90 Human Paladin
7020
what would be the best way to go about having more burst healing? should i stack full crit and use a HS HR EF rotation. should i stack more sprit, spamming HR until no tomorrow and using the resulting HP for EF?

i am currently in a hvy mastery build as ive never been able to figure out how to use a spirit build (or just don't want to) and it works pretty well for me, but i am healing with a disc presit and believe it or not doulbe bubble classes just get in each others way (i make his Spirit shell fall off cause my bubbles are too high hahaha oops)

the main concern is when i heal HM lei shen people get low in phase three (burn phase), its hard to get them up (obviously because 40% of the heal is in the form of a shield) but would a crit build work better for me, should i swap out come red sockets for stright int???

would like some theory crafting of sorts rather than someone coming in and saying "stack mastery and spirit, thats what everyone does"

edit- armory will be off as i am playing around with different stat weights
Edited by Holysack on 6/21/2013 5:33 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
There's great synergy between critical rating and mastery, assuming you're not spamming Divine Light on the bacon'd tank to generate HP.

Though I've seen many HM Lei Shen (10man) kills in which the paladin still has 100% mana at the beginning of last phase, in which case it'd probably be best to pick up some haste.

Heavy burst: Haste
Overall HPS/HPM: Crit-Mastery
Mitigation, LFR padding and overall badness: Mastery

-- Edit --

Just realized you have the 4-piece and are still using mastery..

That's really.............. sub-optimal..... =/
Edited by Lackjester on 6/21/2013 5:22 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12430
I've actually tried a few different builds myself. Right now, I'm doing 45%ish haste for the 5 ticks of EF and otherwise stacking crit for glyph of illumination. I still keep EF rolling and build lots of absorbs, you get quite a bit when heals crit - even with low mastery.

I'm not claiming to be a theory crafter or a good HM raider, it just works for me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
For burst, I'm assuming you mean healing in a compressed timeline. You'll want Haste & Crit. Mastery is a longevity stat, that relies on the 15 seconds of IH shield. Crit gives instant rewards, while Haste modifies your ability to produce raw output "now."

Spirit however in a sub-minute timeframe is not really going to do a heck of a lot for longevity.

Your 9800 Spirit = 11.5k every 5 seconds. Or 5 extra DL/HR/FoL in a minute.
I have 10.6K Spirit = 12.0k every 5 seconds. (used for comparison only). So an extra 6k mana over a minute. Not enough to get me even an HL/HS or even CS for a HoPo.

That said...

Mathematically Crit & Mastery provide equal healing power. You can adjust them back and forth without penalty. The trick is that Crit is real healing, and can overheal. Mastery, while not real healing (as in won't raise health), offers a 15 second overheal protection window.

The more overhealing you do, the more mastery you want. The more damage the raid is actually taking, the more Crit you want.

Think about Dreamwalker in ICC. He would be a 100% Crit 0% Mastery mob. You can't overheal him. Any haste you have is great because you can just cast faster delivering all that raw power. However players don't have that same issue, so you have to balance the stats. The higher your over heal, the more you throttle your crit back. You're not reducing your HPS or HPM any, you're just converting the type of healing you're doing. Reactive to Proactive.
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90 Human Paladin
7020
if i were to go crit how should i go about it? should i enchant my cloak with 180 crit instead of int. should i stack red sockets with 180 int to get the extra crit out of that? should i put yellow sockets in everything?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
if i were to go crit how should i go about it? should i enchant my cloak with 180 crit instead of int. should i stack red sockets with 180 int to get the extra crit out of that? should i put yellow sockets in everything?


1) Keep the socket bonuses unless it's spirit and you absolutely don't feel the need for it.
2) Intellect loses a lot value as SP increases from weapons, trinkets and whatnot -- at your gear level, it'd be counter-productive to stack it.
3) As far as enchants go, 180 intellect is still significantly more valuable than 180 crit.

Are you going to attempt Lei Shen tonight? Keep us updated on your progress.
Edited by Lackjester on 6/21/2013 7:31 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
14355
Ask ten paladins what the best way something should be done, and odds are you'll get at least seven different answers. I'm sure, mathematically, there is one theoretically "right" answer, but then you have to factor in peoples' playstyle, reaction time, raid comp, gear levels, overall raid skill, overall heal team ability, etc. So I usually answer this kind of question with "start with the generally held consensus of what is optimal, then fine tune it to fit you."

Having said that, here's my profile: I'm a twitch healer who favors small, fast heals and puts a premium on burst healing. Unfortunately, I've not been able to truly play that style for all of Pandaland, but the closest I've been able to come so far is this:

- Spirit soft cap of 10-12K (depending on gear level)
- Reforge to SPI or MAS
- Gem red pure INT; gem yellow INT/MAS; gem blue INT/SPI
- Enchant INT or MAS wherever possible

I know this runs counter to what many healers do, which is stack SPI however high they can get it, and which is what I did for a long time this xpac. But it occurred to me that the spells I used the most in crisis situations (HS, Prism, EF, FoL, Rad) were basically unaffected by SPI. (HS & Prism are cheap; EF is mana-free; FoL & Rad are expensive to the point that a couple thousand more SPI wasn't really going to get me that mana back vs. trinket/plea/pot/tide). Furthermore, since they are all instants or fast casts, HAS didn't really factor into the equation (except for Rad). So the end result was going for as high an INT as I can possibly muster without completely gutting the other stats, which has the effect of my core spells hitting like trucks. And since they're fast or instant, that constitutes my heavy burst healing.

Now, I'm sure someone will kindly come along and call me retarded and a baddie for using this loadout - *shrugs* - but this is what I had to do to make it work for me. I hope this gives you at least some food for thought.

EDIT:
If it helps, I use my CDs exclusively for raid-wide burst healing:

  • Avenger: HS->LoD->Rad->LoD->HS->LoD (etc; might slip in a FoL on Beacon)
  • Favor: Rad->HS->LoD->Rad->HS->LoD (etc; HAS buff from Favor helps with Rad spamming; yes those are 2pt LoDs by intent)
  • Wrath: same as Favor, just a little slower and hits a little harder
  • GoAK: FoL/HS/EF->Rad->Rad->LoD->FoL/HS/EF->Rad->Rad->LoD (etc; make full use of the stacking HAS buff)
  • Heroism: same as Favor, if situation involves heavy raid-wide damage


EDIT 2:
Probably also should've said that the above constitutes my burst healing strategy, not my overall strategy. Overall, I spam Holy Light as much as possible, due to its 100% transference to Beacon, and because - starting at around ~11K SPI - a rotation of HL->HL->HS->[EF] becomes practically mana-free and even allows for replenishment if you're spacing them out enough to get the full effect of the cast (and not snipe other heals or overwrite a ticking HoT).

While I would certainly love more HAS to make the HLs cast faster, the reality is that the extra 0.2-0.4 seconds saved per cast doesn't really matter in a controlled damage situation; if the situation transitions to a burst healing situation, I then abandon HL and switch to the above strategy.
Edited by Alysandir on 6/22/2013 10:03 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11870
I'm actually quite curious about how Crit stacking will work out for my raid group. Since I'm just messing around in normals, I figured I'll test it out and see if I like it. Constructive criticism is welcome, as I really am not sure how much Crit I should be aiming for in this build. Or how much mastery I should trade off.

Without raid buffs I'm currently sitting at:
Spirit: 12k
Mastery:28%
Crit:23%
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90 Human Paladin
7020
I'm actually quite curious about how Crit stacking will work out for my raid group. Since I'm just messing around in normals, I figured I'll test it out and see if I like it. Constructive criticism is welcome, as I really am not sure how much Crit I should be aiming for in this build. Or how much mastery I should trade off.

Without raid buffs I'm currently sitting at:
Spirit: 12k
Mastery:28%
Crit:23%


i went alittle more crazy with my stacking crit. i wanted to have the ability to pick people up from 5% health, back to 100% health in as little time as possible. to do this i put a stat priorty of:

int: 1
crit: 0.8
spirit: 0.75
mastery: 0.5
haste: 0.4 (but went to the cap casue i was so close anyway)

this means i ended up on

23k int
11.5k spirit
16% mastery
28% crit
8.4% haste

if im a moron for doing one of these please let me know before i go into our heroic lei shen attempt and realise ive done something horribly wrong.
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Removed by Forum Moderation Team

See?


in my experience progression speaks louder than words. at this point in time you are 11/12 he is 10/12. dont let him bother you.
Edited by Varraguz on 7/2/2013 3:42 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
Aly... Have some faith in humanity!

It was just a joke, for the most part.

in my experience progression speaks louder than words. at this point in time you are 11/12 he is 10/12. dont let him bother you.

Get back to me once you've reached 12/12 LFR, bro.
Edited by Lackjester on 6/23/2013 10:19 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Each build has their own pros and cons but keep an eye on the 5.4 PTR!

For example with the EF change...as of right now it devalues mastery AND haste a bit. But crit is less affected by the change.

It may change or revert back to normal but things may be different in 5.4.
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100 Human Paladin
14355
Removed by Forum Moderation Team

See?


in my experience progression speaks louder than words. at this point in time you are 11/12 he is 10/12. dont let him bother you.


Ah, it was all in good fun; I knew Lackjester was playing.

I said what I did because I *know* that everyone has a different way of doing things that works for them, and some folks can't get their heads around the fact that, what works great in one situation, totally flops in another.

As for 10/12 vs 11/12, there's really no difference (at least at 10-man); Twin Consorts is not considered a challenging encounter on normal-10.
Edited by Varraguz on 7/2/2013 3:43 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
11670
Everything will likely change for 5.4 depending on what they ultimately do with our third row talents. Depending on how they ultimately adjust Selfless Healer, haste could be really strong since it modifies the cooldown on Judgement. We'll see!

Otherwise, paladin burst mostly comes from CD management. You'll get more immediate througput with haste/crit vs. spirit/mastery but not enough to warrant sacrificing the longevity IMO.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Honestly, look at your own logs. If your "%mastery" and your "%healing done from mastery" are even close to each other... you should stack mastery.

5.4 will nerf that by removing from EF, but until then... yup.

How did you come up with a value of 0.5 for mastery Holysack? Did you account for overhealing?
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90 Human Paladin
7020
How did you come up with a value of 0.5 for mastery Holysack? Did you account for overhealing?


this was my own forumlar which i have adjusted, but basically i was making a build that would work for lei shen heroic, and in particular the last phase when after the thunderstruck goes off people need to be topped off before the ads start rng killing people.

i have now re adjusted my build to give mastery more of a role in the build. o now have a

crit > mastery > haste > spirit build

If your "%mastery" and your "%healing done from mastery" are even close to each other... you should stack mastery.


i manage to keep a >1% overhealing for ill healing on most fights so this isnt an issue, my issue is that mastery is strong if your overhealing, i am not overhealing very much on lei shen in p3. thats why i have opted for this heavy throughput build.
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90 Human Paladin
8725
I simply just like the feel of crit healing.

take that as you will.
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90 Human Paladin
7020
heroic lei shen down. ended up going a different route which worked alot better.
> i got a 14k spirit guild
> stacked mastery
> put a few haste gems in there
> abandoned crit altogether

the main reason for this was i did some playing and realised that i could drop only 10% crit fro about 6k spirit. this seemed to be very much worth it, and the extra haste allowed me for a really strong divine light and holy light spam toward the end in burn phase.

in the end the crit was not bad. but i was overhealing alot even in the burn phase so i went back to mastery

still testing and considering it for a ra-den build. but i think ill stay mastery and spirit build since we have a rdruid who can raid wide lay on hands every minute (shrooms).
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