How do I compete with a disc 10m?

90 Worgen Druid
7090
Feels like blizz really failed at balancing disc again. Even in high aoe fights it seems just about impossible to keep up with a disc priest with the current state of PW:S spam, spirit shell blankets, glyphed binding heal, and atonement dps. The amazing 60% possible uptime of archangel seems rather excessive for a 25% boost to all healing and it doesn't seem like disc is all the gimped for 40 - 50% of the time that it can not have archangel active.

For heroic progression disc is just about mandatory. You don't necessarily need one but you are making things significantly harder on you raid by not having one. It really seems like blizz dropped the ball yet again and we have to wait until 6.0+ to see the revamp it desperately needs. The spec is overdue for a aoe heal of it's own as well. Lately it seems that palys and disc are all that matter and the minor nerfs to their absorbs in 5.3 is not a good solution to try and change things.
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90 Troll Druid
10000
You could start by not viewing it as a competition. =\
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90 Goblin Shaman
8320
You could start by not viewing it as a competition. =\


^ this. Stop staring at meters. Healing isn't about winning meters.

A good healer knows how to work well with their other healers- even if they aren't "winning".
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
If by compete you mean match their numbers... why?

If by compete you mean keep your raid spot... they aren't going to take 2 discs. So make sure the other healer is a disc and then you should be golden. :P
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90 Pandaren Monk
8410
You could start by not viewing it as a competition. =\


This. So, SO much this.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10625
You could start by not viewing it as a competition. =\


This. 100% this. Healers should learn to work as one unit, not compete against each other
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90 Undead Priest
0
You compete by pressing your spells. Druids have a whole lot more throughput than a Priest does.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12825
Staring at your meters won't make you a better healer.

A druid and a disc priest heal very well together, I currently heal heroics on my disc priest with a resto druid and we are usually within a few percentages of one another :)
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90 Draenei Priest
11815
You could start by not viewing it as a competition. =\


Yeah this. We do different hings, we're both important.
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
You compete by pressing your spells. Druids have a whole lot more throughput than a Priest does.


Outside of tranq druid thoroughput isn't superior to a discs. It's definitely not "a whole lot more".

I've only healed 8/13 H thus far and am being sat for the tortos + megaere kill as well as the upcoming animus kill but I definitely can't come within less than 3% of the disc priest on any fight this tier no matter how hard I work (In our recent H durumu kill our disc priest ranked 37 and I ranked 53. I would generally believe that fight favors druids and I was doing everything I could but I can't come close to being as useful as our disc). I'll probably be sat on lei shen for the pally + disc as well.

OBVIOUSLY it's not only about the numbers but you guys are being ignorant if you don't believe the difference matters. It's not like we don't know that disc is imbalanced for more than just it's unrivaled thoroughput in 10m.

Staring at your meters won't make you a better healer.


Who stares at their meters? I'm not a bad healer just because I am aware of the current state of things. I glance at meters AFTER a kill or wipe but my experience is anecdotal reguardless. It's not only about my situation but the situation as a whole in 10m healing. I strongly feel that people defend disc even though they know that it is imbalanced just because they do not want to have the current advantage that it brings them. It is a competition for a raid spot in 10m progression and disc thoroughput and ability to deal with mechanics via absorbs is too strong. Our disc is the only one that is never sat and I doubt it's any different for the majority of 10m H progression guilds until they get to farm content.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7985
I'll probably be sat on lei shen for the pally + disc as well.

I would have killed for a druid on H leishen. such ridiculous mobility in p3... /jelly
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Maybe look at the Logs of other Resto Druid and see what they are doing? I recommend Gloosticks, (s)he seems to be quite good and also heals with a Disc so you can compare that way.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5bdpw5q6lr4iey3g/
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90 Draenei Priest
11815
Are we confusing absorbs with throughput? Yeah disc is a greedy snipe-fest of a class by design but I don't think our throughput is better.
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90 Tauren Priest
0
06/24/2013 04:51 PMPosted by Stratas
am being sat for the tortos


Why? I two heal H Tortos as Disc with a Resto Druid...I can't think of a possible reason why they would sit the Druid.

Outside of tranq druid thoroughput isn't superior to a discs. It's definitely not "a whole lot more".


Yes, Druids have a much higher raw HPS ceiling than disc. Much. Disc just has very good tools for effective healing, but our ceiling is pretty reachable. Unfortunately there aren't many fights in an expansion that cater to a high raw throughput ceiling, but heroic tortos is definitely one that does.
Edited by Qùess on 6/24/2013 6:15 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
What's happening is either:

A) You're doing normal modes

or

B) the disc priest is raid healing more than he should be.

In either case. Your disc priest is bad for not just atonement spamming and not letting the resto druid raid heal more. Sitting there spamming PoH with a resto druid in your raid doesn't mean anything.
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90 Draenei Priest
9210
I don't think I'm ever higher than our Resto Druid. Why on earth would I want to spam PWS or PoH when I could be DPSing? When the time comes to pump out the AOE heals, sure, but most of the time I'm perfectly happy to let him carry the load. He does it better and with far better mana efficiency.
Edited by Kashir on 6/24/2013 6:56 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
I don't think I'm ever higher than our Resto Druid. Why on earth would I want to spam PWS or PoH when I could be DPSing? When the time comes to pump out the AOE heals, sure, but most of the time I'm perfectly happy to let him carry the load. He does it better and with far better mana efficiency.


Cause you are 2 healing fights and if you leave the majority of the healing to your co-healer while you use atonement heavily on heroic bosses then you are going to have people dying. If you never beat your druid as a disc priest then there is something strange going on in your raid group.

Disc is not mandatory dont get me wrong it helps but we are not mandatory.


No one is arguing about them being manditory. You can get these kills with ANY healer composition so to blatantly claim mandatory is ridiculous.

Why? I two heal H Tortos as Disc with a Resto Druid...I can't think of a possible reason why they would sit the Druid.


They originally got the kill with disc (maybe he swaps holy idk) and pally so that's what they want to do for a fast, safe kill.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5bdpw5q6lr4iey3g/


Seems like a pretty good druid. Their disc seems kind of lacking however compared to my own. Although raa is a bit more geared (12 ilvls on myself even)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eonar/Raa/simple

Unfortunately there aren't many fights in an expansion that cater to a high raw throughput ceiling, but heroic tortos is definitely one that does.


This does seem to be part of the problem. For the aoe that does happen full spirit shells and PW:S blankets soak most the dmg and trivialize mechanics. Just about all the dmg in these fights is predictable and on spread out timers for building up shields. Disc has the highest or second highest accumulative throughput on almost every fight in 10m Heroic with the only noticeable outlier being tortos. (using average on every parse in raidbots 10m H you'll get 9/13 with disc as #1 or #2 with them close behind on iron qon and counsil.). When you factor in the value of absorbs in progression content as well as atonement dps/hps capabilities and it's hard to argue against using a disc on just about everything.
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Seems like a pretty good druid. Their disc seems kind of lacking however compared to my own. Although raa is a bit more geared (12 ilvls on myself even)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eonar/Raa/simple


I would disagree with that personally but sure. Your Disc may be doing a bit better than theirs but also at a higher item level.

For instance on Jin'Rohk their Disc did 15,000 more DPS than yours. So while their Disc spent more time Atoning, yours spent more time PW:Sing the raid (which obviously would lessen your healing contribution).

Then if you look at Council, the gap between both their damage is less and the gap between their healing is less. While their Druid did a very large amount of healing on that encounter compared to your own (mostly because he seemed to SM and WG more than you which is probably due to talent choice as it seems he lacked NS for that).

So while it's completely possible, and more than probable, that on certain encounters your Disc is sniping you more than that Druids (due to more PW:S usage and less Atonement) those logs do show Gloo pulling more HPS.

From what I have seen between your two logs you may need to work a bit more on using Mushrooms for stacked encounters (like Meg) and possibly switching over to SotF (and higher Swiftmend + Wild Growth usage) for certain encounters that require more AoE healing.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
You aren't going to compete with the Disc until they get nerfed or we non-HPal/Disc peons get buffed considerably.

To those who say "Meters don't matter". You would never make this argument about dps. Even though all the same things would be true. The boss still dies even if a spec is underperforming in dps, right? So by your logic, no dps or healer was ever in need of a buff of any kind? It's silly. Of course Disc is far too good right now. Blizzard has even said as much.

Sure, HPS is a flawed metric in many ways. And it certainly does not tell you the whole story when it comes to healing especially. But to ignore it completely is just as foolish as making it the end-all-be-all.
Edited by Luvbacon on 6/24/2013 10:13 PM PDT
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