Community, Criticism, Bans, and MVPs

(Locked)

85 Human Mage
0
Apparently these forums are not a place to voice concern about the game. Players come here to voice their concerns and direction of the game. Now while I understand complaints are not something anyone wants to hear about the work they have done but failure to recognize problems and address paying customer concerns isn't the best way to develop community.

Recently, there has been a buzz in the forums about many of the changes that occurred in 5.3. many players have come here to voice their concerns and discuss things. However, these forums have become very biased and one sided. You promote fanboys to MVP status who continuously report any player who does not agree with the WoW fanboy model. There is one specific MVP that is very biased in support of Blizzard, complains that all players do on the forums is complain, spends 8 hours a day posting Mon-Fri (job, life, anything?), and I'd like to see how many accounts have been banned or suspended based on this specific MVP's constant flagging of any post they deem un fanboyworthy. I know mine has been flagged at least twice for "spamming and harrasment". One message I was banned for was merely stating the fact that Blizzard has lost 17% of it's subscription base in the past 6 months.

So to end this post that will likely get deleted and my account will be banned yet again by another MVP fanboy / fangirl with nothing else going on in the real world that they essentially work as a forum hall monitor... I would like to say that it does not matter. I am past the point of being upset, or even caring about the direction of the game. Your company's treatment of long time paying customers is some of the worst I have ever seen and it continues to grow worse daily.

Rift is now free to play, and so is the open beta for Elder Scrolls Online. With good offerings that are free to play, I'd prefer to end my subscription and find alternatives rather than get nickel and dimed by an aging and dying 7 year old clunker that is less functional today than it was at inception.
1 Undead Warlock
0
Not sure what you're talking about, I haven't really noticed this with the MVPs specifically, though I have seen plenty of "fanbois" around.
MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
12305
So to end this post that will likely get deleted and my account will be banned yet again by another MVP fanboy / fangirl with nothing else going on in the real world that they essentially work as a forum hall monitor...


Usual comments about "mvps@blizzard.com" inserted here.

However, you should realize that MVPs are not moderators. We do not have the ability to ban anyone. Only the mods do. If you were banned, it was only because the mods thought you should have been.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12775
Bye.
100 Troll Mage
12830
an aging and dying 7 year old clunker that is less functional today than it was at inception.


I'm flabbergasted by that statement. The amount of improvements and features added since vanilla are out of this world. To state it has less functionality is just defamatory as you would be making a knowingly false statement.
100 Human Paladin
16290
"Listen to me whine, if you dont you're a fanboy" *gets banned* "I'ma make a post whining about my post being deleted by the fanboys"
100 Worgen Druid
13995
"Listen to me whine, if you dont you're a fanboy" *gets banned* "I'ma make a post whining about my post being deleted by the fanboys"

lol.
Spot on.
100 Human Paladin
9945
I duno.... Been QQ about patch changes since the very first patch change and really alot of it is that the patch-notes just don't ever do the change whatever it may be justice. A lot of the time the change does turn out to be good or just a non-facto-issue.
Edited by Palastorm on 6/24/2013 12:13 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
0
There is a huge difference between well thought out, constructive criticism and a post filled with whining and insults that do nothing to address what you feel is the problem.
100 Night Elf Druid
10735
I heard Snowfox dual-wields banhammers. True or false?
100 Human Priest
8510
MVP's are reportable, just like any other poster. It used to be that Blue (Blizzard) posts were reportable also, but that was quickly fixed. In your report on the MVP, conclude each and every single report with "This is not MVP-quality behavior." When they break the rules, they need to be reported, just like everyone else.

The MVP's, however, cannot ban you. They don't have that kind of forum power and it would be downright dangerous to let them have it (I'm sure I would have been banned the second the new forum opened if they could do it!).
100 Human Paladin
16290
I heard Snowfox dual-wields banhammers. True or false?


False, Snowfox is a priest, they cant dual-weild
100 Night Elf Druid
10735
06/24/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Chaz
I heard Snowfox dual-wields banhammers. True or false?


False, Snowfox is a priest, they cant dual-weild


Priests with green text are above such silly rules. They can do whatever they want. Didn't you read the OP?
90 Orc Monk
11190
Blizzard doesn't mind people providing criticism of the game, the problem is people don't seem to understand the difference between constructive and nonconstructive criticism.

Also MVPs have absolutely no moderation power so they would not have been the ones to suspend you at all.
90 Night Elf Hunter
9825
You seem to have a mistaken concept of what MVPs are, OP, as well as what it takes to become one. You can find all the criteria (and as far as I'm aware, this is the criteria in its totality) in this thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4038704715

MVPs are players like you and I are. They aren't required to agree with everything Blizzard does; in fact, there are multiple documented cases of them actively disagreeing with something Blizzard has done. The difference is, they know how to disagree peaceably, and offer suggestions on how they think <insert thing here> can be improved. It's called "constructive criticism".

You'll notice, in a thread that raises issues without resorting to hyperbole or emotionalist kneejerk reactions, if one of the Community Managers ("The Blues") responds to it, they often give quite a bit of information (as much as they're able; if they don't say something, it's often because there's nothing to say, or they don't want to set expectations for something the developers aren't yet guaranteed to deliver; remember the PTRs aren't just there to let bleeding-edge raid guilds get a leg up on new content, they're there to test new content to see what is and isn't working). But they dialogue a lot more with players on that level because the original post (or whichever one they're responding to) showed the player was seeking dialogue, and not just a refuse bin to vent their spleen into.

If someone is banned from the forums, or from the game, it's because they've taken actions which violate the Terms of Use (which every one of us agreed to in order to play the game after installation, as well as to post on these forums; we also re-approve the ToU every time a patch comes out and we install it), and those ToU lay out in explicit detail what is and isn't acceptable behavior. As in many other things in life, it doesn't matter if you actually read what you agreed to: once you agree to it, you're bound by it.

More than that, the game is old enough now that whether through word of mouth or just long-time experience with the game, the things likely to get someone banned on the forums or in the game are pretty well-known. They haven't really changed in nearly 9 years of World of Warcraft.

Blizzard can't do anything with complaints. Those offer nothing for them to work with; if a complainer gets a response at all, it'll usually amount to "Thanks for letting us know."

Someone who doesn't like something in the game who then turns around and says "I think this negatively impacts the game in <insert ways here>, and I think if you tried <insert suggestion here>, things would dramatically improve" is a lot more likely to provide something useful, even if it isn't feasible at that point in time. Also realize that major changes to the game do take time, as development resources are limited and have to be prioritized for long-term game goals (which they do a phenomenal job of communicating to us, in all honesty), and they aren't typically something that can be implemented in an overnight hotfix (though when they can, they often are).

There are people who are passionate about the math that underlies everything in this game, and they voluntarily spend hours of their leisure time crunching numbers, coefficients, comparisons, and time on the Playtest Realm so they can give Blizzard hard numbers. Take a paw through Ghostcrawler's Twitter some time and you'll see he often interacts with these people (called "theorycrafters") to address the numbers, and explain why they're acting the way they are, or acknowledging that a change might be in order. Blizzard doesn't work in a vacuum: a lot of the improvements in this game have come via direct interaction with the players who are paying for software and subscriptions.

You aren't going to get banned for disagreeing with Blizzard or the MVPs, and the MVPs don't have ban power anyway: only the people whose text is in blue and who have an animated avatar can do so. Their house, their rules: if you don't like it, you have an avenue of appeal, and if you're unhappy with how a given MVP is acting, you're a lot more likely to be heard by emailing, as Snowfox indicated, mvps@blizzard.com than you are coming to the forums, where you may wind up hearing an explanation from the MVP about why they may have said or done something in a particular fashion.

If you or someone you know is being banned, that's a lot more likely because of extreme behavior that violates the Terms of Use. It's easy to not run afoul of those ToU without even memorizing them: just be a relatively considerate, reasonable person who doesn't turn something into a personal attack when someone else disagrees with you.

It's worked for me for nearly 8 years now.
1 Night Elf Hunter
0
06/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ikhnaton
So to end this post that will likely get deleted and my account will be banned yet again by another MVP fanboy / fangirl with nothing else going on in the real world that they essentially work as a forum hall monitor... I would like to say that it does not matter. I am past the point of being upset, or even caring about the direction of the game. Your company's treatment of long time paying customers is some of the worst I have ever seen and it continues to grow worse daily.


You have chosen to post on the forums they PAY for. Its their right to do whatever they like with your posts for whatever reason.

What you are doing is the equivalent of coming into someone elses home, sitting at their table and criticizing their food, saying their furniture is old and worn, that their dog wags his tail too much and the cat ignored you, then be surprised when you are asked to keep it to yourself or leave.

If you want to spend your own money to create your own forum to discuss how you'd run the game if you were in charge, feel free to do so.

OR you could be polite and constructive like many of us "fanbois" and maybe, just maybe, your feedback will be considered.
Community Manager
06/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ikhnaton
Apparently these forums are not a place to voice concern about the game.

That's exactly what these forums are for. But that doesn't give one license to voice any concern in whatever way they so choose. We have rules.

06/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ikhnaton
You promote fanboys to MVP status who continuously report any player who does not agree with the WoW fanboy model.

Such a "model" doesn't exist. We have rules, and chances are MVPs are more familiar with them than most of the players who come to post here.

06/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ikhnaton
There is one specific MVP that is very biased in support of Blizzard, complains that all players do on the forums is complain, spends 8 hours a day posting Mon-Fri (job, life, anything?), and I'd like to see how many accounts have been banned or suspended based on this specific MVP's constant flagging of any post they deem un fanboyworthy.

We don't share information regarding account actions with third parties, so the information you're requesting to see cannot be provided to you. That said, even if MVPs were reporting posts simply because they lack a sufficient amount of fanboyism, we're not going to take action just because the report came from an MVP. In fact, our backend moderation system weights reports from MVP-flagged accounts no differently than those from standard accounts. At no point during the moderation procedure does the moderator ask him or herself, "Did this report come from an MVP?" We look at the report and determine what actions, if any, are necessary because -- as you can probably imagine by now -- we have rules.

06/24/2013 12:03 PMPosted by Ikhnaton
So to end this post that will likely get deleted and my account will be banned yet again by another MVP fanboy / fangirl with nothing else going on in the real world that they essentially work as a forum hall monitor...

MVPs don't have the power to lock, delete, ban, or use any other moderation tools that aren't at the disposal of every player posting here. Only Blizzard employees have such moderation powers, and just to reiterate, an MVP's reports are weighted no differently than yours.

To make one final point, we don't choose MVPs because they're fanboys. We choose MVPs who know a lot about this game, are passionate about this game, and love being active members of the community. Many of them are outspoken and, at times, very critical of Blizzard's decisions. But they know we have rules and that they should follow them. They often times try in earnest to help others understand those rules, and for that they're sometimes labeled fanboys.

We try to make sure that being part of the MVP program feels cool and unique, but the green text brings with it some burdens. MVPs are singled out, much in the way you've singled them out here, as being something more than they are: your fellow players. They play the game just like everyone else. They have access to the same tools on the forums as everyone else. The only relevant difference between the average MVP and the average player, in terms of account status, is the color of their text on our forums.

Circling around to my original point, this forum is for gameplay discussions. If you have a problem with the behavior of any individual MVP, please send it to mvps@blizzard.com. The reason why we don't want this kind of post to exist on the forums is we're not interested in community discussions focused around witch hunts, rather than WoW gameplay.

This is why your thread has been locked. This is why we have rules. :)
Edited by Zarhym on 6/24/2013 6:13 PM PDT
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