[5.4] Legendary Cloak and Healer Trinkets

90 Night Elf Druid
10315
Has anyone looked at the new trinkets vs the old ones?
I have Heroic TF Horridon's Last Gasp and the VP trinket. How do those stack up against these new trinkets?

I have a feeling that Heroic TF Last Gasp will continue to be invaluable, given that I frequently get 2 or even 3 stacks of the buff. Usually over the course of a fight I end up with more mana regen from the trinket than from my innervate.

With the current VP trinket having the same CD as Innervate, I have it macro'd to my innervate and just wait till im down to 2/3rds mana before hitting innervate, and it brings me right back up to 90% (100% if Last Gasp procs at the same time), and I find the synergy to be amazing. I HATE on use trinkets, and I can usually only stand them in instances like this-the synergy with other commonly used abilities.

I might take the % stat increasing one because it would allow me to reach insane mastery, being able to hit the haste breakpoints with less haste rating, so more reforging to mastery.
not sure about the CD reducing one, maybe worth it for barkskin and innervate.

Thoughts?
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90 Draenei Shaman
11550
Has anyone looked at the new trinkets vs the old ones?
I have Heroic TF Horridon's Last Gasp and the VP trinket. How do those stack up against these new trinkets?

I have a feeling that Heroic TF Last Gasp will continue to be invaluable, given that I frequently get 2 or even 3 stacks of the buff. Usually over the course of a fight I end up with more mana regen from the trinket than from my innervate.

With the current VP trinket having the same CD as Innervate, I have it macro'd to my innervate and just wait till im down to 2/3rds mana before hitting innervate, and it brings me right back up to 90% (100% if Last Gasp procs at the same time), and I find the synergy to be amazing. I HATE on use trinkets, and I can usually only stand them in instances like this-the synergy with other commonly used abilities.

I might take the % stat increasing one because it would allow me to reach insane mastery, being able to hit the haste breakpoints with less haste rating, so more reforging to mastery.
not sure about the CD reducing one, maybe worth it for barkskin and innervate.

Thoughts?


Without doing any math to back this claim up, I can bet a Heroic HLG or Heroic TF HLG will still be a very viable trinket option much like Heroic Spirit of the Sun is. Will it be best in slot? Probably not but it will still be plenty useful. The Valor trinket will most likely go the way of the dodo though. Probably for the CDR trinket. Considering our spirit will only increase next tier and most of us are swimming in mana I'll be dropping the valor trinket for sure.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
As of right now spirit procs from trinkets are used to calculate the amount of mana returned from the new Innervate.

So, basically, 200-300k innervates will be possible depending on how many of them you stack and what item level they are (they also give a large boost to your combat regen on top of the monster innervate).

HLG cannot remotely compete with this, but it will certainly be good early on and depending on luck. If the interaction is nerfed HLG may well end up being one of our best available trinkets, if not the best because the others will honestly be pretty lackluster at that point.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
As of right now spirit procs from trinkets are used to calculate the amount of mana returned from the new Innervate.

So, basically, 200-300k innervates will be possible depending on how many of them you stack and what item level they are (they also give a large boost to your combat regen on top of the monster innervate).

HLG cannot remotely compete with this, but it will certainly be good early on and depending on luck. If the interaction is nerfed HLG may well end up being one of our best available trinkets, if not the best because the others will honestly be pretty lackluster at that point.


The CD reduction trinkets aren't bad, and they have an int proc. Sadly, I can't run meters on the PTR without lagging out, so I haven't been able to establish an uptime. They are all RPPM trinkets, tho, if I'm not mistaken.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
As of right now spirit procs from trinkets are used to calculate the amount of mana returned from the new Innervate.

So, basically, 200-300k innervates will be possible depending on how many of them you stack and what item level they are (they also give a large boost to your combat regen on top of the monster innervate).

HLG cannot remotely compete with this, but it will certainly be good early on and depending on luck. If the interaction is nerfed HLG may well end up being one of our best available trinkets, if not the best because the others will honestly be pretty lackluster at that point.


The interaction between Spirit procs and Innervate should and will eventually be removed, hopefully before 5.4 goes live. If that interaction was a problem with Rapture and Mana Tide Totem, it's a problem with Innervate.

"The total mana gained from this ability can never be less than 8% of the casting Druid's maximum mana, and the amount gained is unaffected by Mana Tide Totem."

You would think they would have just made it not interact with all short term spirit buffs when they made that change.
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90 Human Monk
12915
I'm pretty sure that most of the fights will benefit from the cd trinket, which will personally be one of mine but the 2nd trinket...

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102293-5-4-raid-normal-siege-of-orgrimmar-boss-x-loot-x

+1,959 Intellect
Equip: Your attacks have a chance to grant Amplification, increasing your Critical Strike damage and healing, Haste, and Mastery by 84% for 20 sec

This trinket looks like it could be really really good for mw and/or disc, 700k blackout kicks (single target) and 550k tiger palms. Not to mention the bonus to mastery and haste for 20 sec. I wouldn't take it over a dps that needed it but it is really tempting.

Also if the legendary cloak procs off basic fistweaving auto-attacks, fistweaving could be MORE viable with the right gear-set than sitting back and healing.

Edit nvm didn't see that it wasn't a 3% flat heal just 3% of the missing health. Still pretty good.
Edited by Eldarc on 7/11/2013 4:26 PM PDT
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
As of right now spirit procs from trinkets are used to calculate the amount of mana returned from the new Innervate.

So, basically, 200-300k innervates will be possible depending on how many of them you stack and what item level they are (they also give a large boost to your combat regen on top of the monster innervate).

HLG cannot remotely compete with this, but it will certainly be good early on and depending on luck. If the interaction is nerfed HLG may well end up being one of our best available trinkets, if not the best because the others will honestly be pretty lackluster at that point.


The interaction between Spirit procs and Innervate should and will eventually be removed, hopefully before 5.4 goes live. If that interaction was a problem with Rapture and Mana Tide Totem, it's a problem with Innervate.

"The total mana gained from this ability can never be less than 8% of the casting Druid's maximum mana, and the amount gained is unaffected by Mana Tide Totem."

You would think they would have just made it not interact with all short term spirit buffs when they made that change.


It probably will but, but I don't know if it should be. Druids are already mid-pack and will be bottom-pack in 5.4. This sort of interaction is the only real hope we have for being competitive. All it really does is give us as much mana as Disc and Mistweavers have had the entire expansion.

That's not terrible much to ask (if they aren't going to fix those classes insane regen... which clearly they aren't). Without this interaction all of these trinkets are pretty garbage - the CD reduction one is interesting but Resto as of last I checked is getting boned hardcore on the abilities affected and I personally HATE int procs if there's another alternative.

The mana tide exception is not that unusual as they're not wanting to make Druids reliant on Shamans for mana. You'd think some clerk at blizzard could notice the incongruous vs. the trinkets, but hey, Blizzard has messed up even more basic things before. I wouldn't mind seeing a reduction in how much Innervate benefits from spirit procs (it really is insane right now) but I think it adds a good element of play - reminds me of the good ole days of potting before an innervate.

Mushrooms in 5.3 are the only thing keeping us afloat and they're taking a pretty huge nerf in throughput and ease-of-use (how they've managed to do this is amazing).

The basic message of 5.4 PTR is reroll Disc/Mistweaver while you still have time. Tempting.
Edited by Eleäzaras on 7/11/2013 4:29 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
10000
The basic message of 5.4 PTR is reroll Disc/Mistweaver while you still have time. Tempting.


Please do reroll. I can't stand you whining about my class when it's fine.
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07/11/2013 04:57 PMPosted by Frozenorange
The basic message of 5.4 PTR is reroll Disc/Mistweaver while you still have time. Tempting.


Please do reroll. I can't stand you whining about my class when it's fine.


Only if he/she rerolls MW. I don't want him/her.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
I'd never lower myself to the level of Disc. Holy is way more fun anyway.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
07/11/2013 04:57 PMPosted by Frozenorange
The basic message of 5.4 PTR is reroll Disc/Mistweaver while you still have time. Tempting.


Please do reroll. I can't stand you whining about my class when it's fine.


It's really mean to inflict him on other classes. What did I ever do to you, Frozen Sherbert Tree Dude Man? Huh? :(
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I'd never lower myself to the level of Disc. Holy is way more fun anyway.


Oh, I am so wounded. That's what I was supposed to say, right?
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90 Tauren Priest
9140
I'd never lower myself to the level of Disc. Holy is way more fun anyway.


Pretty sure no matter what you end up playing you would find a way to cry and imply that your spec is the worst.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
You would think they would have just made it not interact with all short term spirit buffs when they made that change.


I can see them keeping it like this for 1 reason.

Innervate is a 3 minute cd.

While spells like rapture and mana tide either have really short cooldowns. Or affect the whole raid.
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90 Troll Druid
10000
I can see them keeping it like this for 1 reason.

Innervate is a 3 minute cd.

While spells like rapture and mana tide either have really short cooldowns. Or affect the whole raid.


I can see them not keeping like this for 1 reason.

18:24:41> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:42> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:43> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:44> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:45> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:46> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:47> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:48> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:49> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
18:24:50> [Your] Innervate energized [You] 23102 (Mana).
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
07/11/2013 06:11 PMPosted by Suplift
You would think they would have just made it not interact with all short term spirit buffs when they made that change.


I can see them keeping it like this for 1 reason.

Innervate is a 3 minute cd.

While spells like rapture and mana tide either have really short cooldowns. Or affect the whole raid.


There is no way - it's gamebreaking, it gives certain classes 400% more benefit from the trinket than other classes, and gives that trinket proc a value of around 11,000. With Divine Plea also going to Spirit based scaling, it will be an issue for Paladins as well. Either all Spirit based scaling mechanics should work off that type of proc, or none of them should.

If they think Druids need more regen, base their buff regen rather than balance them around a specific trinket.
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90 Troll Druid
10000
If they think Druids need more regen, base their buff regen rather than balance them around a specific trinket.


One word: Revitalize.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
I never said Druids would be worst. I said we'd be at the bottom with Holy Paladins (as things stand). With the recent Shaman changes there's no reason 25m healer comp won't be mostly shamans, Priests, and Mistweavers. Why would you ever have anything else?

The Rapture changes were actually a mana buff for most Discs... everyone outside of highly progressed 25m with a mana bot shaman.

If you dont' think something like this should go live you should be petitioning to have your own (Mistweavers). mana regen nerfed into oblivion as well as Discs. Resto on live can actually easily run out of mana, especially in a 25. Apparently it's ok for MW to have a trinket that let's them PASSIVELY have infinite mana, but Druids (who are worse) can't get active, timed mana.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
There's plenty of basis for one trinket benefitting one class way more than another. happens all the time. the others are far less useful for us than other healers (at least far less useful than Disc and MWs... but that's no surprise). It would help us be a lot more proactive like we were in Cata and helps get more out of Genesis
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I never said Druids would be worst. I said we'd be at the bottom with Holy Paladins (as things stand). With the recent Shaman changes there's no reason 25m healer comp won't be mostly shamans, Priests, and Mistweavers. Why would you ever have anything else?


You should really just stop talking before you embarrass yourself anymore. Druids have looked amazing in raid testing so far - from most of the raid tests that I have seen - they are competitive with Mistweavers and actually beating Disc Priests. To suggest you are anywhere near as weak as Holy Paladins on the PTR right now is just willful ignorance.
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