Open Libram LXXXIV: Lightspeed to Orgrimmar!

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100 Human Paladin
15890
Greetings and welcome to the 84th installment of the Open Libram! The beautifully large nd sexy alternative to Mangle/Sentry Totem and Tank Lounge!

In these threads, we talk about everything Paladin. Some cool. Some lame. Some information dangerous. Got that question that you're kind of afraid to make a new thread about, or just tired of getting trolled on Trade Chat? Ask it here for a more personal response.

So Blood Elves, get your hair ready, Draenei and Tauren clean off your hooves. Dwarves, the nearest alcohol is to your left for your enjoyment and Humans... well do whatever it is you do that keeps you alive. Or stuff.

Enjoy! Have fun everyone!


Previous Libram: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9308900907
Libram Archive: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4254457548

Paladin Social Networking:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/283670185033463/

My Little Ponydins by Lobster:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7448/ponydins1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s8CSF.png

"Maid" by the Light: http://i.imgur.com/7zB4K.jpg
Cadenpony: http://i.imgur.com/bU0bh.png
"Bunny" Chaz by Lobster: http://i.imgur.com/IokKV.png

Vanilla Ret Pally "Melgibsmash":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zGEBhJMHA

Fabulous Track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQ92LdjRaE

Imagining Garrosh and an angry Ewok now
Edited by Chaz on 6/25/2013 8:44 AM PDT
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
Imagining Garrosh and an angry Ewok now


Yub yub!
100 Human Paladin
15890
Grog you're looking dwarfy and non silhouetted
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
Been that way since...Saturday? Long-ass way to go still before I start looking good again, though.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12890
Hey lobster, we NEED an ewok garrosh, get to work!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12625
What do you guys think about the 5.4 changes so far?

From a Holy perspective I think it'll freshen up the spec a little more without doing anything extremely detrimental to the performance. Although the change to Sacred Shield is a little annoying, I didn't really get to use SS that much in raids since I raid with 2 pally tanks.

Not sure how I feel about the GoAK change for ret yet but I think that I'll like it in the long run. And the Inq buff is just really nice.
100 Human Paladin
15890
Pushing GoAK more will be nice.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12890
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120407205750AAJNSP5
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
And the Inq buff is just really nice.


Inq change is just incredibly stupid. We are not resource starved; we do not need help managing our resources. They need to revert the Inq change and just leave us with the glyph change, because the glyph was a good QoL change while changing the spell was a horrible idea.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120407205750AAJNSP5


...By the Light, do I hate children these days... -_-

GET OFF MY LAWN!!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12890
It's really hard to do this nalak quest getting 2 fps
I think discussion of the Inq change should consider "why is this change being made in the first place?"

I don't think it's because anyone believes Ret is resource-starved. I think it's far more likely because Inq is really really easy to manage if you use an addon, and really really terrible with the default UI, and this is an attempt to mitigate that.

If that's really the rationale, "don't make this change because the skilled Rets don't find it hard" will be pretty unconvincing unless you can present a different way to still accomplish the goal of NOT forcing players to be horrible if they don't happen to be savvy enough to use an Inq-tracking addon. A built-in tracker would naturally be the ideal fix, but a UI-based solution may not be an option for this patch, so think about some alternatives too.
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
So, what's that say to Rogues and Ferals who do have significant demands on their resources? With all the demands on their resources, is it any easier for them to maintain their buffs than it is for us to deal with Inq? Do they have UI-based solutions, or do they also require addons?

These are also things that need to be taken into consideration - and aren't. "Different classes are different," yes, but, to me, it's still sending a bad message of unfair treatment. Especially when they're further dumbing down something as simple as Inq, when Rogues' and Ferals' similar buffs are left as agonizing abominations by comparison. They need the help; we don't. They're starved for the necessary resources; we aren't.

Yes, Feral already has a good QoL glyph to alleviate some of the problem, and, yes, they can also auto-refresh during Execute-phase. And, yes, exactly one Rogue spec has a passive refresh - note, though, that it's the one with the most demand on its resources.

Considering that Inq and HoPo were added to specifically complicate Ret's rotation, and that we already have by-far the easiest of similar maintenance buffs in the game, making it easier is pointless. It's asking for trouble.
100 Draenei Paladin
6815
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120407205750AAJNSP5


What.

WHAT?!
100 Human Paladin
15890
Thats probably the dumbest thing I've read all month

As for Inq, probably mostly for PVP, since most of the inq being hard to keep up comes from the PVP crowd, which is a small boost in convenience for PVP

Its not more of a resource starving issue, as PVP starves resources in general since its hard to reliably hit things.

A rare case of PVP changes helping PVE
100 Draenei Paladin
6815
Thats probably the dumbest thing I've read all month


Wouldn't be surprised at all.

As for Inq, probably mostly for PVP, since most of the inq being hard to keep up comes from the PVP crowd, which is a small boost in convenience for PVP


Yeah, in PvP constantly having to refresh Inquisition means I'm not putting out as much pressure as I could be due to GCD or using a clutch Word of Glory.

I would have been fine with Inquisition being put off of the GCD, though.
06/25/2013 10:33 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
So, what's that say to Rogues and Ferals who do have significant demands on their resources? With all the demands on their resources, is it any easier for them to maintain their buffs than it is for us to deal with Inq? Do they have UI-based solutions, or do they also require addons?

I know very little about how those specs play, so I couldn't really say. But as you point out, the fact that those specs ARE more resource-limited than us, and yet we're getting the change, would seem to indicate that resource management is not the concern in the first place.

Maybe my guess at the rationale is wrong, and it's something completely unrelated. But that just means we need to address a different problem, because "it's already easy, and much simpler than other similar mechanics" doesn't appear to have stopped the idea in the first place, which would be strange if they were stopping objections, since those are the first questions that would be raised when anyone proposed such a thing.

My point is, try to think about it from the developer's perspective - that patch note didn't show up by RNG, a team had to agree on the change and deliberately put it in. Why did they want to make the change in the first place? I don't think "Inq is too hard" or "Resource management issues" are plausible explanations, for exactly the reasons you cite. So what was the reason?

edit: Stupid mace and trinket; I am overloaded on expertise.
Edited by Ravicana on 6/25/2013 11:00 AM PDT
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
So what was the reason?


Why the hell are they still trying to cram a DS-related set bonus down our throats? Massive QQ from all the whiny Wrath-baby rerolls is really the only reason I can think of.

And that especially if, as you point out, one of their primary concerns in the change is the difficulty in tracking it with the default UI - but that still doesn't jive with the same issue as faced much longer by Rogues and Ferals, who are not getting their maint-buffs touched.
100 Human Paladin
15890
Why the hell are they still trying to cram a DS-related set bonus down our throats? Massive QQ from all the whiny Wrath-baby rerolls is really the only reason I can think of.


Most of the ret paladins today I believe were Wrathbaby rets. They want that back because thats their 'vanilla was better' moment.
93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
Most of the ret paladins today I believe were Wrathbaby rets. They want that back because thats their 'vanilla was better' moment.


Screw 'em. I want BC back. >_<
100 Human Paladin
15890
Screw 'em. I want BC back. >_<


No, anything pre-wrath for ret was...bad
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