5.4, hunters in PvE - concerns, etc.

100 Blood Elf Hunter
17180
agree with all these issues. Very well thought out and well put.

The blandness of the three specs really is starting to bother me. Single target all three specs use glaive toss, multi target all three specs use barrage. Our focus regenerator is the same thing be it steady or cobra shot. Bm and Surv both use arcane shot to focus dump (marks does too, those that do it vs hardcasting aimed). We all apply serpent sting, we all use stampede, rapid fire, and readiness. We all use kill shot. Focus fire is a completely boring proc, and is alot like rapid fire which is also boring. It would be nice if steady focus increased your dps the longer you stood still, with a cap obviously, instead of how it is now.

Signature shots could use a nice buff even if nerfed elsewhere to compensate. How close arcane shot will be to KC is sad in terms of damage for 5.4 as is. Signature shots and execute like abilities should hit significantly harder than a focus dump. Doubling kill shots dmg and removing cd reset would be a nice change, so that when you hit a button called KILL shot, you might actually kill something.

A raid cd would be nice to give hunters a bit of flavor and usefulness, but im not holding my breath till next expansion. Whether its a defensive cd, damagae cd, or something new. A raidwide CD reset, or a temporary cost reduction cd for focus/mana/energy etc might be something interesting to see if done right.

Hunters cant be fixed this expansion for all the holes it has as a class right now, but significantly buffing our dps can be fixed now, to hold us over to next expansion.

Ive played this hunter since vanilla and have always enjoyed it (even now). I dont want to feel like we as a class have jumped the shark, and or glory days are behind us
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100 Troll Hunter
11060
I agree with the OP.

Stampede, as it stands, is not useful to us after the nerf and is dead weight for a 5 minute CD. Bake in the damage elsewhere and leave this out of our dps rotation.

If damage abilities are being removed from Readiness, then also remove Rapid Fire from the Readiness reset and bake in damage boosts elsewhere as compensation.

We are sorely lacking a raid utility that makes us attractive and useful in 25 man raiding. Something similar to Smoke Bomb, War Banners, or even a mana refresh cooldown for the raid via a pet or something like that would make us highly sought after, even if we are doing slightly less dps than other pure dps classes.

We're not asking to be the top dps class. We would love to have a stat that scales like warlocks, rogues, and others that makes our SS tick faster with haste, for instance, but we know this is unlikely to be implemented. However, we could really use some type of utility for 25 man raids that makes us useful, viable, and not a seeming waste of a raid slot for 25 man progression guilds who are stacking other classes that DO bring higher utility and dps.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
17300

We're not asking to be the top dps class. We would love to have a stat that scales like warlocks, rogues, and others that makes our SS tick faster with haste, for instance, but we know this is unlikely to be implemented. However, we could really use some type of utility for 25 man raids that makes us useful, viable, and not a seeming waste of a raid slot for 25 man progression guilds who are stacking other classes that DO bring higher utility and dps.


I agree with this completley. I don't want to be TOP dps-- I'd like to be a little closer to top, sure, who wouldn't? But when the top dps specs also bring utility or have much more survivability than we do, what's the point of bringing us?

You know what felt really good? Saving a full-Spirit-Beast Stampede for when the healers would call for it, and using it as a raid cooldown. That was amazing, though short-lived.

It felt so good to be able to interact and interface with my raid members within the bounds of my class mechanics, and I wish we now had a way to do that. Right now, when I raid, I can just ignore my raid members and tunnel whatever it is I'm supposed to be DPSing because I have no other purpose outside of encounter mechanics.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
13280
Bump.

/agreed.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
18460
Fully agree. Especially about the no interrupt. Even the rare spawns need interrupts. Horridon adds like interrupts. Nearly every class/spec has an interrupt. And we have little utility as it is, now they want to take one of the few things that we did have.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
14495
Just wanted to throw my hat in the ring and agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread. Thanks to Daetur for crossposting this, as well as to the OP (Dracodraco in EU) for your eloquence.

I was initially indifferent to Stampede when it was first proposed before MoP, but was won over not only by the amount of burst damage it gave us, but by the sheer epicness of having five of your pets come out and bum-rush a boss with their best attacks.

What's the point of Stampede now? Beyond the crippling diminishment in burst, all they do now is rush out of wherever we keep them and.... take nibbles at the bad guy like they just don't give a hoot.

...I had a whole thing written out comparing the merits (or lack thereof) of the current form of Stampede with other classes' lvl 87 abilities, but I don't want to derail the topic, and I'm sure others of you with more experience with other classes at max level will agree at least to some extent that the utility and/or efficacy of those abilities trumps that of Stampede at this point.
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90 Worgen Hunter
9780
I agree with this issues also. Stampede is just trash now and I'll only use it for a sliver of a dps increase and/or final standing a pet while soloing.

As for Silencing shot, there should be an exotic pet that has a 24 second silence for BM, and whichever pet (Nether ray if I'm correct) Should have its own 30 - 40 second silence for survival.

I dunno if my idea is any good but I just thought of it :x
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100 Dwarf Hunter
23180
06/26/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Cashrock
As for Silencing shot, there should be an exotic pet that has a 24 second silence for BM, and whichever pet (Nether ray if I'm correct) Should have its own 30 - 40 second silence for survival.

If we have no access to a baseline interrupt, all three of the pets with interrupts (Moths, Gorillas, Nether Rays) need to have their interrupt durations, cooldowns, and ranges adjusted to resemble other classes (such as 4s interrupt/15s cooldown/melee range, or 6s interrupt/24s cooldown/40 yard range, and all off the pet GCD, of course).

Just because it's provided by a pet does not mean it should be inferior, certainly not if we don't have something equivalent to any of the other classes as a baseline.
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100 Troll Hunter
17445
Big ups to Dracodraco for putting this together. Incredibly well written and thought out. Honestly, I loved the idea of Stampede, but they really need to figure out what they are doing with it. Also, we need a real dps cooldown. Rapid Fire is cool, but our dots don't benefit from it and the only real benefit of it is increased focus regen now that they nerfed stampede. Bestial Wrath is pretty much a rotational ability with a longer cooldown more than an actual cooldown. Stampede literally does 1% of our damage throughout a fight.

Also, the specs need more variety. BM has Focus Fire and Kill Command as it's unique abilities. SV has Black Arrow and Explosive Shot and MM has Aimed Shot and Chimera Shot. That's pretty much the only difference between the specs. It's pathetic. I love my hunter. It's been my main since the beginning and it will remain my main until I stop playing, but this is the first time I've ever been disappointed with the class. Hunters are definitely the next class due for an overhaul.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
17660
The constant nerf beating is mind boggling. Looking at all of the changes--especially the impact on PVE--is sickening.
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100 Draenei Hunter
14100
The nerf we have, and are about to take is absolutely frightening. It presents not a nerf to damage, but a nerf to utility and - worse, since WoW is above all things, a video game - fun.

They could have made Stampede like Bloodlust - and made it not function in arenas. They instead chose to turn it into an asinine DPS cooldown, like that is something we actually need. And now they're limiting Readiness to the point it's just "dah button wot i push".

And then they're removing the talent Silencing Shot - which is good! I think it was kind of dumb as a talent, because why would i choose anything else? But then giving it only to Marksmanship spec. Because I guess Marks is underperforming, so they're advertising invisible clothes to us to take Marksmanship despite it being a boring playstyle, and OH HEY YOU CAN SILENCE IF YOU'RE MARKS.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
15070
As stated above by so many, I can't aggre more about almost everything posted. I rolled a hunter because I loved being able to move while dpsing, since everything is instant, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'm brought to the raid for my attack speed/crit/spell haste buff. I only play Surv, so can't speak for any other spec, but the nerfs to Stampede and the incoming lack of Silencing Shot and a worthwhile Readiness are killing hunters. Some ideas posted, such as buffing Stampede with a 10 minute CD, are fine ideas, and I think Blizz would be wise to implant them in 5.4, or, if not, in 6.0.

Also, Blizz, why can't we have more than 3 raiding tiers in an expansion? First in Cata, now in Mists...it feels so...short. And no, Ruby Sanctum dosn't count as a 'raiding tier', not a one-room raid with a single boss. I love WoW, and I hate to see what's happening to it, but I still intend to stick it out to the bitter end. It won't have to end, though, if you pull your act together and fix things. This dosn't have to be about the money. It should be about the players.

(Edited for spelling)
Edited by Thaliah on 6/27/2013 3:29 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Hunter
12270
Agreed
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100 Orc Hunter
21890
Count me among those who agree.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
13630
/signed
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100 Worgen Hunter
13975
I have to agree with more than what I could disagree with on this.

Right now I am enjoying my temporary position in the top 5 during raids and LFR.

It is nice to have actually getting compliments from other players instead of the usual "Huntard" that are so casually thrown about.

I fear once all the nerfs take affect, I shall, once again, be constantly aware that after each and every battle there may be "Kick Vote" going on that I will know nothing about until suddenly I am standing back at the Shrine... removed from the party.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
15735
My favorite was the idiot that thought giving arcane shot a dispel back in BC was a good idea to compensate us for a damage nerf at the time, was removed quickly and compensation forgotten.


Ouch. I had managed to forget that particular debacle.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
15735
They (GC I think) said they gave us Stampede because so many players asked for it. It was poorly implemented (bugged) and absurdly OP, and now has been crushed with nerfs to the point of being laughable.

But back to point one: just my opinion, but I think the Devs totally missed on how generally desirable Stampede was to the hunter community. Many very casual players, pet battlers and pet collectors and achievement hounds wanted this type of ability, and all it resulted in was a mess. In the meantime, the players who live and breathe hunters had to watch while our class is dragged around like a Christmas Vacation dog.

The Devs need to do a better job of figuring out what the core community really feels will benefit the class, as opposed to shiny and loud abilities that don't properly fit balance-wise.

Now we're to the point where removing Stampede completely would be the best thing they could do. Hell, replace it with a combination Silencing Shot/Widow Venom if they want, but either way just get rid of it.

The OP was spot on. Stop reinventing this class based on popular opinion (unnecessary abilities and/or nerfs by butt-hurt other classes) and give us a solid foundation of abilities again.

EDIT: To clarify, by solid foundation I mean CD's that are needed and wanted in both raids and PVP, abilities that work correctly, and DPS that can have some burst that works on both side of the fence. It doesn't mean dual wielding weapons, or pistols, or 100 more stable slots, or pretty tames. All those things are fine, bbut please get to them AFTER the class is working right.
Edited by Radroit on 6/28/2013 4:04 PM PDT
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100 Dwarf Hunter
24310
A very good read and I agree with everything the OP brought up. This SHOULD be redirected to the PTR forums so that we have a higher chance of the devs seeing it and maybe actually using some of the ideas presented.
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