WoL for Meg

90 Night Elf Priest
10465
So I'd like for you guys to look at some logs on Meg for me. This was from our main raid's non mandatory 3rd night. So we have a couple people who aren't normally in our raid/may have never seen this fight outside of LFR. We were also pulling in our alt raids disc priest. On alt raid night she was apparently outheald by our shadow priest who went holy because they needed a healer and had like 5k spirit. They were on Jin. So they wanted me to look at her. As the night progressed I went down on performance. But so did the contents of mine (and a couple others) whisky bottles. So that sets up part of the context. I mainly wanted you guys to look at tanks, the druid, and myself. I don't know enough about the others. And I have the hardest time critiquing myself. Oh we are also very casual.

I somewhat know how to read logs, but I am still learning and have picked some things out that I know we need to work on, but I'm too lazy to post what I noticed.

We tried numerous strategies. Going B-R only, G-R only, B-R-B-R-G-R. Farthest we got was the 5th head I believe. We also tried 4 healing (namely to check out the other priest). Last attempt our shammy went DPS and we three healed with the other priest going holy. Any advice is appreciated. I'm heading to bed and won't check til tomorrow, but I'll answer any questions when I get a chance. I also realize my atonement healing is high, I've been working on lowering it.

Link to logs, it should work.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u22n79blulnnyfc6/
Edited by Rhias on 7/1/2013 10:12 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
What exactly are you looking for? Most of your attempts seem to go sideways because people stand in bad things.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10345
just tell ur ppl dont stand in bad stuff, pull 90k dps, and like atleast...... 50k hps? effective healing / smart movement = gg, you cant go wrong. killing blue is only viable if your dps are great, green is if your healers are.
if you have neither good dps nor healers, make changes..
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11860
Your Rdruid

1: In your 7 attempts your druid only managed to keep Harmony (Mastery buff) above 90% once. Most other pulls well below and is something he/she needs to remedy.

2: Lifebloom wasn't any better for any fight. Not as critical as harmony but nonetheless should be habit to keep this up at least close to 90%+ whenever possible baring dpsing etc.

4: Wild Mushrooms wasn't used for almost every single pull and even then it was minuscule. WM is big on this fight.

5: Wasted Omen of Clarity Procs.

6: Extreme waste of Incarnation i.e. not using this CD.

My last normal log for Meg. Look under buffs cast to compare.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0dsp9k1ongo4cdhv/sum/healingDone/?s=6222&e=6536

Now, it's understandable when someone is new to a fight to adjust etc so numbers won't always look to be very good. But we as Rdruids must with no exception keep our Harmony up to buff our spells. There is no room for disagreement on this point. Not keeping it up/keeping track of it correctly means those heals cast without it up will be seriously nerfed. Most of the time it's as simple as having the healer track the buff with a bar like NeedtoKnow provides.

Other common issues are how the healer has the UI setup for healing. Not being able to see Lifebloom or it's stacks along with remaining time can and does show in a low upkeep value.

I am unable to see your druid's gear because she is in her PvP gear so I can't comment on that.

Obviously you need to be able to 2 heal this encounter because your raid DPS is extremely lacking. You only have 2 people consistently over 100k DPS (Hunter and Monk). AT least you should have Eyllis go DPS and 3 heal it. If you guys coordinate your powerful raid CDs you should be able to have the Shaman and Druid or Disc heal fine. But that choice is up to you.
Edited by Trollmendous on 7/2/2013 1:19 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10345
07/02/2013 12:11 AMPosted by Trollmendous
Now, it's understandable when someone is new to a fight to adjust etc so numbers won't always look to be very good. But we as Rdruids must with no exception keep our Harmony up to buff our spells. Their is no room for disagreement on this point. Not keeping it up/keeping track of it correctly means those heals casts will be nerfed. Most of the time it's as simple as having the healer track the buff with a bar like NeedtoKnow provides.


I learned this the 1st day I played a druid because it is COMMON SENSE
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11860
07/02/2013 12:16 AMPosted by Skidward
Now, it's understandable when someone is new to a fight to adjust etc so numbers won't always look to be very good. But we as Rdruids must with no exception keep our Harmony up to buff our spells. Their is no room for disagreement on this point. Not keeping it up/keeping track of it correctly means those heals casts will be nerfed. Most of the time it's as simple as having the healer track the buff with a bar like NeedtoKnow provides.


I learned this the 1st day I played a druid because it is COMMON SENSE


You'd be surprised.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10345
You'd be surprised.


yea lol, I see so many bad druids that doesnt know how to play their class. Most don't know that you can read your own abilities and figure out the largest chump of how to play it just by reading passive abilities
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
9210
i think R-G-R-G-R-G is what people usually do unless you want the achiev

to prevent cinders + acid rain from globaling people when you're learning the fight, everyone needs to spread away from the stack points outside of rampage

dispel cinders immediately for ranged and after a few seconds for melee so they can move out, if anyone drops fire somewhere bad it's their fault

have a set healing rotation for after whatever rampage starts to hurt

there's no reason to four heal this, don't do it

edit: i wouldn't two heal if it's progression
Edited by Rexoss on 7/2/2013 12:32 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
10345
I thought of the coolest idea today
when you run into the water, you get knocked back.

make ranged stand by water so they can get dispelled right as they run into it, and drop cinders in water
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
13040
i think R-G-R-G-R-G is what people usually do unless you want the achiev

to prevent cinders + acid rain from globaling people when you're learning the fight, everyone needs to spread away from the stack points outside of rampage

dispel cinders immediately for ranged and after a few seconds for melee so they can move out, if anyone drops fire somewhere bad it's their fault

have a set healing rotation for after whatever rampage starts to hurt

there's no reason to four heal this, don't do it

edit: i wouldn't two heal if it's progression


That's how we handle cinders as well :) All ranged are spread out and one main healer handles dispels, then the person side steps out of it. Our kill order is GR then we end with B/R/B. It's possible to 4 heal it if the DPS is high enough, but in some attempts the dps seemed a little low. Personally for progression I would 3 heal it.

We tried every kill order possible (or at least it felt like it :P) until we got the kill, now it's fairly easy. Just have to figure out what works best for your group :D

Do you use spirit shell? I only noticed it in a few attempts. I raid as a disc priest and spirit shell EVERY rampage (always try to have AA up right beforehand as well) and myself the other healers also coordinate other cds (such as disc bubble, tranq, etc).
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
12820
Just to add some Priest stuff I noticed... Bear in mind some of the following is being said with the assumption both Priests may be present for future attempts.

1. Both Priests are specced Cascade. In my experience Divine Star is absolutely amazing on this encounter. It's the hands down best choice for Rampage, and depending on aim still very good outside of it.

2. Spirit Shell isn't being used as often as it should be. A single DPriest should have SS available for every Rampage. With current gear levels, item upgrades and depending on DPS output this may not be the case depending upon how quickly Rampages are pushed. I'd recommend discussing with the other Priest how you're planning to manage SS. It'd probably be best to stagger them for each Rampage, and perhaps even save them for between Rampages towards the end of the fight (before acid rain hits) if you're killing Green.

In terms of SSing a Rampage, there are two approaches. You can either SS right before Rampage goes out to mitigate the initial bolts or you can SS during it. The first approach tends to make the early part of Rampage easier to deal with, by stopping any Acid Rain going out pre-Rampage and the initial bolts, whereas the second stabilizes health bars a bit more over the course of the Rampage. The best of these two approaches depends on your raid CD use for Rampage (IMO anyway).

3. If you're not already doing so develop a plan for staggering your Barrier casts for Rampage.

4. Pain Suppression wasn't used by either Priest on your longest attempt. You should be able to find a way to improve in this area, and use it on tanks prior to a high stack breath or when healers get beamed (if you're killing blue), or even on a single player in trouble for whatever reason.

5. You have zero Inner Focus casts and could have fit in more AA casts on your longest pull of the night. Your other Priest could have also fit in more AA casts and IF casts.

6. Neither you or the other Priest seem to be using Penance or Solace/Holy Fire as much as you should be.

7. PoM isn't being used often enough by either Priest. It's particularly worthwhile to have it up during Rampage, but even outside of Rampage it's often a good idea.

8. I'd scrap Angelic Bulwark for Desperate Prayer. DP is usually more useful in every situation this tier (and most tiers IMO).

9. Your glyphs have room for improvement. I'd ditch the glyph of PW:S, as it was changed at some point so instead of adding a 20% heal on top of the shield it converts 20% of the shield into a heal. The glyph is sub-par for PVE content due to this change.

It's best to run some combination of the Inner Sanctum, Penance, Fade, Weakened Soul, Binding Heal and Prayer of Mending Glyph. The BH and PoM glyph are very situational, some combination of the other 4 options is the common approach (for good reason).

These are a few areas you can work on.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
10465
Thanks guys a lot of good info.

As for our raid comp, we normally 3 heal. Shammy, rdudir, and me as disc. We brought in the 4th healer because she is in the alt raid and they wanted me to look at her and see what she was doing. So that was weirder then normal. And we were missing two of our normal DPS. This was our non mandatory before reset third raid night. Oh and there's usually some alcohol involved. So we aren't at A game. I think I said that in the first post.

Sometime we noticed with the druid was her overhealing. I know Druids have a lot of it, but hers seemed high. Our spriest would Hymn for mana and she'd be out of mana in no time.

I didn't use spirit shell last night. I'm not the raid leader, but I'm in charge of logs and looking at people to see what we can work on. So I was busy watching the disco. Normally I use that whenever I can.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
10465
@Volios

1. I didn't even think to use Divine Atar, but that does seen like a better idea.

2. Normally we only run one priest. We were just bringing her to look at her (in our alt raidshe was outheald by a spriest that went holy with only 5k spirit so they wanted me to see what was up). And raid leader wanted to see what four healing would do haha. With our normal healers we do divy up our big heals. I normally use SShell more, but was trying to see what the other priest was doing.

Also with SShell is there any specific way you have your raid frame/parties set up to make it easier to get the most of SShell?

3. We did. We took turns. .

4. I always forget about Pain Supression. I really need to work on that.

5. I need to find a better way to deal with my cooldowns. I felt like I was casting like a madman. So it's harder to keep track of those things.

6. I felt like I was casting both of those on cooldown. But I will look at it. I know she didn't cast either very much. But I will look at mine as well.

7. Ok. I do know she used it more then I did. But I will look at that.

8. I think I'll get that once I get used to my cooldowns. I used to only heal as holy, so a lot of disc stuff is still new to me.

9. Ok thanks. I didn't realize that.

A lot of good info. I will look at all of it when I have a chance.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
12820
07/02/2013 06:05 AMPosted by Rhias
1. I didn't even think to use Divine Atar, but that does seen like a better idea.


Yeah, it makes a world of difference during Rampage. You should try to time it so your first DS goes out early into the Rampage so you can get 2 of them off during it, with the 2nd right at the end of it. It may not seem ideal for dealing with Acid Rain damage if/when you're killing green heads but if you aim it well it still can be.

Also with SShell is there any specific way you have your raid frame/parties set up to make it easier to get the most of SShell?


I just use Vuhdo and have clusters enabled. On Meg I find you can reliably get 4-5 targets per SS PoH cast for the most part. And I stress this 4-5 number because 3 is the point where PW:S > SS PoH from a output/HPS perspective. Usually I demand assist so I can fiddle with the setup of the groups.

07/02/2013 06:05 AMPosted by Rhias
4. I always forget about Pain Supression. I really need to work on that.


Yeah, it's helpful to drop it on tanks, especially the tank with red if/when it's active, when healers get beamed or it's at the final breath before a Rampage. Other areas to use it would be for people getting beamed right before a Rampage goes out (grip works well here) or even on a Cinders target clearing ice if you know tanks will never need it.

5. I need to find a better way to deal with my cooldowns. I felt like I was casting like a madman. So it's harder to keep track of those things.

6. I felt like I was casting both of those on cooldown. But I will look at it. I know she didn't cast either very much. But I will look at mine as well.

7. Ok. I do know she used it more then I did. But I will look at that.


It happens sometimes and nobody is perfect, so no big deal. Sometimes it can be difficult to heal how you'd like if things aren't going anywhere near according to plan too (as an example, someone stands in fire when you're in the middle of SS :)).

One thing you can do is macro SS+AA+IF together, or explore more complex macros for chaining those abilities together. It cuts down on the button presses when you've decided to pair them together. If you do this though I'd recommend having spare binds for each of those abilities so you can use them individually if you ever decide to do so.
Edited by Volios on 7/2/2013 7:17 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
9425
4: Wild Mushrooms wasn't used for almost every single pull and even then it was minuscule. WM is big on this fight.


Absolutely. Your druid knows where people are going to be stacking, everyone else knows where they'll be stacking, there are definite times that the stacking is going to happen. So your Druid should have three mushrooms on that spot, getting charged up. When everyone collapses down, blow the mushrooms, then set up three more mushrooms, blow them.

My way of handling this is to set up three on the first stack point pre-pull. After the Rampage, as I'm running out, I'll set up three more on the next stack point - of course, all while healing up my assigned tank.

Tranquility also works out very nicely on Rampage - I end up with Tranq at about my 3rd biggest heal on Megs. Then again, I also time it out with a SotF buff, so it is HUGE.

So we have a couple people who aren't normally in our raid/may have never seen this fight outside of LFR


That shouldn't cause much of a problem. Megs is one of the fights that are essentially unchanged from LFR -- the only difference is that things actually hurt -- so you can't stand on an acid bomb, you have to kite the frost beam, and you can't be dropping cinders in a group.

Once you get some practice in, this'll be a quick to farm status boss. Until then, it's about everyone falling into the rotation.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
10465
@Trollmendous

We usually don't have the pally tank, we have a DK. Who pulls about the the DPS. We were missing our Mage who pulls 100k+. And we normally don't 4 heal. And Eyllis is only part of our alt raid that started a week ago. So our comp is off. And I'm pretty sure I said that in my original post. I do agree some of our DPS is low. For one Graylon just joined us and is gearing up.

We are working on two healing more so our shammy can switch to his rogue, but until people start taking less avoidable damage. I don't think our RL will support two healing.

And thanks for the druid info. That'll help a lot. What do you think of her use of Wildgrowth. Her overheal on that is like 52%. I don't know how Druids are with overhealing. But she seems to go oom very fast.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
12440
07/02/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Rexoss
i think R-G-R-G-R-G is what people usually do unless you want the achiev

I recommend only killing blue and red, really. If your raid doesn't screw up the beams, then it's dramatically less damage than green/red, particularly later on in the fight when the acid rains start to chain together.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
9425
What do you think of her use of Wildgrowth. Her overheal on that is like 52%. I don't know how Druids are with overhealing. But she seems to go oom very fast.


OH happens.

Quick question that will help us out: Does that druid have PVE gear? Armory now brings up a druid in full PVP gear. While her Spirit isn't too low in that gear, the Int/SP is very low, and Mastery is kinda low, which means she'd be casting a lot of spells to do the same healing as I would.

Megs is probably the fight I use WG on the least. Unless a poison bomb has just hit, damage will only be happening to two tanks, any cinder targets, and anyone running over frost beam
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
10465
I assumed OH happens, I just wasn't sure if that was normal. I do know some OH can be prevented, just wanted to check.

I'm not sure. I feel like she has PVE but I can't recall off the top of my head.

Edit: When would be the best time to use Tree of life and Innervate?
Edited by Rhias on 7/2/2013 12:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11860
Sometime we noticed with the druid was her overhealing. I know Druids have a lot of it, but hers seemed high. Our spriest would Hymn for mana and she'd be out of mana in no time.


What do you think of her use of Wildgrowth. Her overheal on that is like 52%. I don't know how Druids are with overhealing. But she seems to go oom very fast.


07/02/2013 12:53 PMPosted by Rhias
I assumed OH happens, I just wasn't sure if that was normal. I do know some OH can be prevented, just wanted to check.


When dealing with Rdruids always take OH with a grain of salt. The nature of our hots lead to OH along with all those shields and absorbs especially in your raid with a HP and DPriest.

But there is one area where OH could matter - going OoM becuase of spell overuse. But this would be easy to see because the two spells that would cause it are Rejuvenation and Regrowth - not WG or Lifebloom. She could and should in some cases keep WG on CD.

Edit: When would be the best time to use Tree of life and Innervate?


TOL i.e. now called Incarnation is another 3m CD. It can be used a couple of ways. First it can be a mana CD with her rolling LBs on everyone and taking advantage of the free omen of clarity procs for instant regrowths and second, as a throughput CD by taking advantage of the 15% increase to spells such as rejuv and even casting tranquility. But I personally like to keep tanq a major CD on it's own.

Innervate should be used when he mana reaches -20% and every single time it's up after during a fight (as long as she's negative mana of course).
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]