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This will be my last post on this matter, as I realize the purpose of this thread is to allow objectors to just scream in the wind until we get tired and give up. I know our feedback means little, and the in-game store will go full-speed ahead as planned, just like with CRZ. It will start with charms and XP, and, mark my words, move on to other "convenience" items, negating the point of actually playing the game. I don't really care too much about the selling of cosmetic items since they don't give any sort of advantage (time or otherwise), but eventually there will be a whole wardrobe in the in-game store, making the in-game obtainable gear look plain and "blah" in comparison.
I'm 100% with you. My sub runs out on August 9. Raiding was fun, mostly because the people I raided with were entertaining on TS. However, there's plenty of other stuff I can do, probably more worthwhile in the long run. I thought Blizzard was a great company once upon a time, but their recent actions just don't reflect the Blizzard that I wish to support.
What are you talking about? He quit. If customers dislike something, they quit. That's reality.
90 Dwarf Paladin
You mean that wasn't intentional? That would have made Wow so much more interesting. Can you imagine a Red Light District in Org?
Guess what is not reality?
Making every single one of ~8 million subs happy.
If someone is quitting over something that doesn't effect them, then I would question their grip on reality anyhow.
The problem is that too many forum-goers want nothing more than a reason, any reason, to be mad at Blizzard. I just find it especially funny when it's about things that don't effect them.
Okay people seem to like to ask this particular question:
How do other peoples actions effect you?
Well for starters, people have quit for a lot less than this.
I had almost an entire guild quit back during FL because of the direction Blizzard had decided to take the game in Cata.
The half off server transfers: Guess what? Half my raid transferred to a different server including the guild leader and didn't bother talking with anyone else about it. These are people I have known for years that didn't even bother to have the decency to tell people what was going on. I had to spend weeks explaining to people where those folks went and why.
People quitting or paying for something because it's "easier" is a negative thing.
My server- which was stable at the beginning of Cata- started slowly dying in the middle of tier 11- way before FL or LFR came out. There is no pug community on our server anymore- not even for the last tier of raiding.
So yes, what other people do does effect others- even inadvertently.
One of the major reasons I am against the XP potion: we all know that it will stack with heirlooms and the guild perks. That means less people in queue for the lower level dungeons. That in turn means more people at max level that haven't got a clue as to what they are doing. It also gives Bliz an excuse to not lower the amount of XP required between expacs- want to level faster? Go to the Blizzard store.
The biggest reason I'm against lesser charms being sold: it isn't needed and does give Blizzard an excuse to "slow down" the in game acquisition rate.
One of the reasons I am against mounts being sold on the Blizzard store aside from charity items: Look at the bat mount and look at this patch. That mount should have been a reward via a raid drop or even an achievement. We have been begging Blizzard for literally 6 years for them to make one obtainable in game. The Blizzard store mounts are becoming more common with every expac since the sparkle pony was introduced.
Transmog items: Look at the current artwork of the next tier of items coming out. I'm sorry, but that is nowhere near the quality of these store bought helms. One of the biggest reasons I use transmog on a lot of my girls- I can't stand the way a lot of these sets look anymore. Want something different that isn't a copy of something else? Go to the store.
I just don't understand why people would support paying for out of game things for in game use when they already pay $15 dollars a month.
Edited by Jujubiju on 7/19/2013 9:48 PM PDT
You don't get it still.
I do get it, but it's hard to talk about every part of this issue in just a single post. It would be too long.
Part of what some are upset at is because they are worried that all the good stuff will go to the store and Blizzard will start spending less time and money developing content that will be included in the $15. Furthermore, people that have been playing a long time feel unloved and maybe even betrayed. You went on to express a concern that things like the charms and xp potions could end up being game breakers if implement carelessly.
Anywhere in life people who spend more money end up with items that they and maybe others consider to be more valuable or bigger or faster or better in some way. People who spend $1,200 on a set of golf clubs believe that are have an advantage over those that use cheap clubs. Some people have no problem spending $400 on a pair of sneakers. These folks think those sneakers will make them more popular. People who spend a whole bunch of money on college degrees believe they got an edge over those that don't.
There are people in this world that are always going to have better items than me. Either because I can't afford to buy what they have, or I don't really want what they have. Now I have two choices. I can be ok with that and not drive myself insane. Or, I can get all petty and jelly and live in a constant state of want.
There is going to be a lot of cool stuff in the in-game store. It would be stupid to put ugly stuff there. So, people are going to be able to buy really cool stuff.
Now, that all that has been said: There is another side to that issue. I agree. Blizzard would be very stupid to stop developing cool stuff that's included in the subscription. Yes, they have to cater to all their customers. If they leave any one out, those people will leave.
I bet they know this. There is no reason to assume they don't. Why? Because other f2p games/hybrids already knew this or learned the hard way. Every p2p/f2p hybrid that I've seen, subscribers get items/and or perks that non-subscribers will never have. And obviously, there are items in the store than non-store customers will never have.
Yes, absolutely, if they abandon any particular grouping, then that grouping will get upset and many will leave. But game developers know that. Because they study long and hard all the efforts before theirs. Each new f2p game/hybrid that goes live has better overall implementation. The industry is still moving at warp speed. In part because of the constant microscopic-size fine-tuning that is constantly being done.
Now, that all THAT has been said: It would be very smart of Blizzard if at least some of the stuff in the store was also available via in-game mechanics that's available to all subscribers.
They are just in a position of needing to make more money. And they are specifically trying to not, that's right I said NOT, raise this money by nickle and diming anyone. If you appreciate the items in the in-game store and want to be a customer, cool. If not, enjoy the game anyway.
Edit: One point I forgot. If Blizzard is smart and does a good job with this store, it can attract several million new players. If they are sloppy or lazy or stupid - it won't be good (to put it mildly).
Edited by Apritte on 7/19/2013 9:56 PM PDT
Just because you can't see the full reach of an action taken doesn't mean that reach isn't there. The addition of a cash shop to the WoW client most certainly has an effect on anyone that uses the WoW client. That effect is going to be different for every person due to variations that make us all individual.
Also, presenting your opinion in a an aloof manner, attempting to create a false supremacy in the hope that others believe it, does not make you correct either. It is a valid manipulation technique, but it doesn't change the validity of your statements.
One of the major reasons I am against the XP potion: we all know that it will stack with heirlooms and the guild perks. That means less people in queue for the lower level dungeons
It could also mean more people leveling alts, so MORE people queuing for low level dungeons.
This is a stretch because most people don't have a clue at max level anyways, and I'm quite sure that a 100% xp buff isn't going to further damage the quality of play.
It also gives Bliz an excuse to not lower the amount of XP required between expacs- want to level faster? Go to the Blizzard store.
Yes, I am sure that Blizzard's master plan is to balance around the Store to penalize people who don't use it.
I just don't understand why people would support paying for out of game things for in game use when they already pay $15 dollars a month.
Because I have no reason to not support it, as I've seen it working just fine in other games.
Feel free to check my mounts and pets, I don't have a single store item, nor will I probably buy any Blizzard store items. However, this doesn't mean that I am going to rally against them implementing something that adds to the enjoyment of other players gaming, especially when it doesn't effect me.
Hi. "Supposed Blizzard loyalist" here. I supported Blizzard seriously since Warcraft 2. Buying their games, writing positive reviews, telling everyone about what great games they make, you know, the whole "loyalist" thing.
And yet, here I am expressing my dislike of an in-game real money shop. I know, how selfish! But as incredible as this may sound to you, I only bother writing this stuff because I would like to see Blizzard succeed. If I didn't, I'd simply take my money and time elsewhere. (GW2 is just fine in my book, for example.)
However, when I say I'd like to see Blizzard succeed, I mean: I want Blizzard to remain one of the leaders in producing high-quality well-respected games that make a lot of money.
I do not mean: I want Blizzard to rake in as much money as they can in the next few with any means necessary.
In fact, I see the latter as something which can potentially harm the former. Imagine that.
Yes, I guess I'm selfish. :(
In the end, I'll happily remain a selfish consumer. Since DA2, I no longer preorder from Bioware... and since Diablo 3, I no longer preorder from Blizzard. If they choose to continue producing what I consider sub-par or consumer-unfriendly products, they'll lose my money--and my loyalty. They're not family, so any loyalty on my part better be reciprocated on theirs. Imagine that.
If you're wondering, I sleep well at night.
Ouch. I see I touched a nerve. I guess you shouldn't have come off so snotty and condescending if you don't like being responded to in kind.
Diablo III isn't subscription based either AFAIK. Also, many people feel that the RMAH ruined the game (it's also not an MMO). It also wasn't the point.
No, we understand quite well how microtransactions work and that they are likely to be an ever more prevalent model. We don't accept them in this game along with both the B2P and P2P models already being utilized, and we understand the damage they will do to this game. They do affect other players in a number of ways. They affect the game as a whole, in that when people can buy their way through instead of playing, they ... wait for it... don't play as much. That means fewer people in the world, to group/raid with, to buy/sell/craft items, to pvp with, and to pay subs year round, just for example.
For the most part, it isn't people being mad at Blizzard. It's disappointment in them and dread over what the game is heading toward. It's all been stated clearly, numerous times. You can read for yourself.
"Reality" is not made up of your opinions. Maybe you can buy a clue in the cash shop.
Edited by Tekillya on 7/19/2013 10:25 PM PDT
Yes, you clearly touched a nerve, I just so angry right now...
I was replying to the poster claiming that cash store would somehow hurt the reputation of future Blizzard titles, to which I replied with a Blizzard title with a far more "nefarious" feature. I never said it was an MMO.
Or it could mean ... wait for it ... more people leveling alts, so more people in the world. But hey, don't let me stop you from focusing on just the negative aspects, because it really hurts your argument.
We don't accept them in this game along with both the B2P and P2P models already being utilized
Yeah, just not seeing the big deal, sorry. You guys just have some kind of strange "these pay models don't belong together" matrix that micro-transactions just don't fit into? Really?
Just reiterating a point I wanted to make earlier. For some people, it's about seeing cutting-edge content as soon as possible. For others, it's the competition or rivalry with other players, either through PvP or DPS-meters. For others, it's just a means of socializing. For others, still, it's the strive to collect rare, awesome items.
We all play for vastly different reasons, and it's fantastic the game can accommodate both of our desires. The emphasis on the cash-shop may not affect you, but it does affect me. Even the transmog-helms alone; that's content being developed that I'm unable to acquire without additional payment, but even more than that, it's content that could have provided another gameplay-experience.
Imagine if the Crown of Eternal Winter was instead an insanely-rare drop in Northrend? That would be inspiration for a number of endeavors, from simply revisiting Northrend, to inspiration to play up more characters up through level 80. Or had it been a cool new quest-chain for Death Knights, I would have *LOVED* that. Like all cash-shop items, however, it is meaningless because there is zero effort required to obtain it. There is no pride, no prestige, no "journey" or "experience".
The XP-boost and Charms are another matter entirely, but even the transmog-helms represent a supremely negative shift. I totally respect that you don't view transmogging as "compelling content", but many of us do. Perhaps you might take a stand when our enjoyment is being infringed upon, so that we stick around to take a stand if (and presumably when) Blizzard starts charging for the aspects you enjoy?
1 Undead Rogue
Maybe it's time to accept that Blizzard has put on skis and is charging down the slope at terminal velocity.
Stuff like this bring in money. Blizzard likes money. Side effects on the game be damned.
I suppose one way to make this an easier pill to swallow is to accept that the "cosmetic" part of the game is no longer "playable", it's been "commercialised". Just pretend the pretty graphics doesn't exist, like you are playing NES Zelda - a game that still has gameplay value despite it's horribly primitive graphics. That that part of WoW is "gone".
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