5.4 In Game Store 100% XP Buff/Transmog items?

90 Dwarf Shaman
12385
So where exactly are the P2W items that Blizz is, or will be selling?


Blue post on page 88 of this thread. Dated 7/8/2013. They're looking into it at the moment.



First, we’ll be testing the in-game store with some new kinds of items we’re looking into introducing (in Asian regions, at the outset) based on player feedback: specifically, an experience buff to assist with the leveling process, as well as an alternate way to acquire Lesser Charms of Good Fortune.
100 Human Warlock
7200
I dont like the idea that my money is being spent paying someone to make this stuff... The time would be much better spent creating new content.

I'd put in a dollar for a new heroic 5-man... Oh man, that would be terrible if there were content for sale in the cash shop.


It's very unlikely that these items are taking away any kind of dev time from stuff in the game, since that'd be stupid.

It's a lot more likely that these are being done by a separate division, not being paid out of your $15 a month, but out of the proceeds from selling them.

This theory and the "This is the beginning of the sky falling to P2W" are the two excuses people are using to rage about this, and neither is very good.
100 Goblin Shaman
8740
While I understand that people are upset over some of the items that are going into the shop,some of the most vocal opponents of this seem to have one or more of the current store items.


I've already explained how I ended up with the sparkle pony five pages ago, but just to clarify:

It was a gift, given to me from a friend that has quit the game. I paid no real life money for the thing.

My TCG card items: the imp was also a gift. The kite is the only thing I have ever spent RL money on- and that was from an actual TCG card, not ebay. And it was from the only deck I have ever bought.

Otherwise I have never spent RL money on the Blizzard store.
100 Night Elf Rogue
10280
07/20/2013 11:06 AMPosted by Jujubiju
While I understand that people are upset over some of the items that are going into the shop,some of the most vocal opponents of this seem to have one or more of the current store items.


I've already explained how I ended up with the sparkle pony five pages ago, but just to clarify:

It was a gift, given to me from a friend that has quit the game. I paid no real life money for the thing.

My TCG card items: the imp was also a gift. The kite is the only thing I have ever spent RL money on- and that was from an actual TCG card, not ebay. And it was from the only deck I have ever bought.

Otherwise I have never spent RL money on the Blizzard store.

Thank you for responding to a quote that had absolutely nothing to do with you. You and I went through this 5 or so pages back and I accepted your explanation. My point is extremely valid though with many many other folks however.
Edited by Mythox on 7/20/2013 12:13 PM PDT
100 Orc Shaman
9645
The more I think about this, the more I just want to cancel my account, permanently. I'm more of a "wait-and-see-what-happens" kind of guy, but I don't know. I just can't get over this. I used to respect, and admire Blizzard, but now I'm starting to question their integrity, and thinking process.


You should probably just quit now to save yourself the hassle.

If you can't get over the fact that a company creates a product with the intention of selling it to make a profit, then the world is going to be a very, very scary place for you.
100 Orc Warlock
12975
07/20/2013 12:12 PMPosted by Killadrix
The more I think about this, the more I just want to cancel my account, permanently. I'm more of a "wait-and-see-what-happens" kind of guy, but I don't know. I just can't get over this. I used to respect, and admire Blizzard, but now I'm starting to question their integrity, and thinking process.


You should probably just quit now to save yourself the hassle.

If you can't get over the fact that a company creates a product with the intention of selling it to make a profit, then the world is going to be a very, very scary place for you.


Oh noes! A business wants to make profit! Zzzzzzzzz....

Let me know when all the other subscription-based MMO's also adopt a nickel-and-dime approach with a cash shop/microtransactions (AKA the F2P business model), and then your argument will be valid. No one would care if this was standard practice, but as it stands, Blizzard wants more of your money than anyone else, and that's going to draw heat whether you like it or not.
100 Human Death Knight
13945
There are just several issues layered upon one another. I'll try to summarize a bit:

1. Your subscription is paying for content that you're literally incapable of obtaining without further payment.

2. XP-boosts and Charms of Good Fortune are "pay-to-win", because on some level, they provide an advantage to those with more money.

3. They is a serious, logical concern that these will lead to even more microtransactions, ranging from purchasing actual armor, to even charging to access new Dungeons, Raids, or Battlegrounds.

4. The transmog-helms were a missed opportunity to actually add more gameplay to WoW, as they could have very easily have been rare-drops or rewards for new, extravagant quests.

5. Transmogrification is "meaningful content" to some players, and the fact that Blizzard is now comfortable with charging for that content means that you can no longer count on having new, compelling Armor-designs to look forward to.

6. Like all cash-shop items, the transmog-helms will become meaningless; since there is literally zero effort put into obtaining them, they hold no sentimentality, and are destined to run the same gambit as the Heart of the Aspects, which leads into...

7. Many players frown upon Pets and Mounts being sold, because so many of them would have felt more satisfying as rewards for other feats. Sparkle-pony should have been a rare-drop from Algalon, which would have completely changed peoples' perception of it, Heart of the Aspects should have been a Fangs of the Father reward, and even the new Bat-mount, players have been asking for a bat-mount ever since Burning Crusade.

8. Every other MMO to attempt a cash-shop while also having a mandatory subscription has failed, which leads some to worry that this could hurt Blizzard financially in the long-term.

9. Another worry is that every MMO who attempted the same business-model also went Free-to-Play, which many players deem undesirable, and even fundamentally at-odds with what World of Warcraft used to be, since F2P games never have a "level playing-field".
Edited by Maldazzar on 7/20/2013 12:54 PM PDT
89 Goblin Rogue
5015
07/20/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Backslider


You should probably just quit now to save yourself the hassle.

If you can't get over the fact that a company creates a product with the intention of selling it to make a profit, then the world is going to be a very, very scary place for you.


Oh noes! A business wants to make profit! Zzzzzzzzz....

Let me know when all the other subscription-based MMO's also adopt a nickel-and-dime approach with a cash shop/microtransactions (AKA the F2P business model), and then your argument will be valid. No one would care if this was standard practice, but as it stands, Blizzard wants more of your money than anyone else, and that's going to draw heat whether you like it or not.


Runescape and the wheel of misfortune microtransactions.
Ragnarok Online for a period of about 2 years offered Subscriptions, F2P, and cash shop options (they are now fully f2p). Mabinogi has "Premium Servce" which is the sole way a player can open a player owned shop, buy an in-game house, or create/run a guild.

WoW is not the first game to offer both.
100 Orc Warlock
12975
Don't forget Star Trek Online, which is also F2P yet offers premium subscriptions.

Difference is, the subscription is optional, and STO remains a F2P game.
100 Human Death Knight
13945


Oh noes! A business wants to make profit! Zzzzzzzzz....

Let me know when all the other subscription-based MMO's also adopt a nickel-and-dime approach with a cash shop/microtransactions (AKA the F2P business model), and then your argument will be valid. No one would care if this was standard practice, but as it stands, Blizzard wants more of your money than anyone else, and that's going to draw heat whether you like it or not.


Runescape and the wheel of misfortune microtransactions.
Ragnarok Online for a period of about 2 years offered Subscriptions, F2P, and cash shop options (they are now fully f2p). Mabinogi has "Premium Servce" which is the sole way a player can open a player owned shop, buy an in-game house, or create/run a guild.

WoW is not the first game to offer both.


But are the subscriptions actually mandatory? In any case, there isn't a single instance where a forced subscription was also able to carry microtransactions with any success that I'm aware of, and given that WoW still has 8 million subscribers -- a *HUGE* number that dwarfs any other MMO -- I think most would agree, Blizzard (or perhaps more accurately, Vivendi) is playing a pretty dangerous game, hoping to secure some short-term funds at the expense of their long-term investment.

Basically, this is the type of move that most developers/publishers pull when they're looking to "cut bait and run". That doesn't make sense, and it doesn't sit particularly with a lot of players.
89 Goblin Rogue
5015


Runescape and the wheel of misfortune microtransactions.
Ragnarok Online for a period of about 2 years offered Subscriptions, F2P, and cash shop options (they are now fully f2p). Mabinogi has "Premium Servce" which is the sole way a player can open a player owned shop, buy an in-game house, or create/run a guild.

WoW is not the first game to offer both.


But are the subscriptions actually mandatory? In any case, there isn't a single instance where a forced subscription was also able to carry microtransactions with any success that I'm aware of, and given that WoW still has 8 million subscribers -- a *HUGE* number that dwarfs any other MMO -- I think most would agree, Blizzard (or perhaps more accurately, Vivendi) is playing a pretty dangerous game, hoping to secure some short-term funds at the expense of their long-term investment.

Basically, this is the type of move that most developers/publishers pull when they're looking to "cut bait and run". That doesn't make sense, and it doesn't sit particularly with a lot of players.


For Mabinogi they gated updated content depending if you had the "premium service" a large part of the game and content was gated.

For Runescape a vast majority of the game is gated behind the subscription, so much so that you lose the ability to use subscriber items if your subscription ends, for all intents and purposes the game is subscription based. (Worth noting it costs less than WoW's $15 a month and offers a loyalty program).

http://www.develop-online.net/features/483/Interview-Jagexs-Mark-Gerhard
According to this article with a developer (2009) Runescape at one point had over 8.5 million subscribers, and while i heavily doubt they enjoy that same success these days it is definitely a comparable number in the MMO market. The Wheel of Misfortune offers things varying from large amount of ingame currency to just flat out experience for any of the games skills, to temporary duration powerful equipment. (You get X amount of spins daily, but can pay a microtransaction for more) As well as completely cosmetic item sets and emotes which are available for cash purchase. And these methods must be profitable as the game is planning on releasing "Runescape 3", which is essentially a very large content update that includes a new skill in game and promised frequent content updates.

That being said, I'm not exactly in favor of these things, but I have actually purchased in-game cosmetics through that system. There are previously working examples of this model, and as long as the items available for sale are purely cosmetic or convenience-based I personally don't have a problem with it.
Edited by Lamuella on 7/20/2013 1:26 PM PDT
100 Undead Mage
7965
There are just several issues layered upon one another. I'll try to summarize a bit:

1. Your subscription is paying for content that you're literally incapable of obtaining without further payment.

2. XP-boosts and Charms of Good Fortune are "pay-to-win", because on some level, they provide an advantage to those with more money.

3. There is a serious, logical concern that these will lead to even more microtransactions, ranging from purchasing actual armor, to even charging to access new Dungeons, Raids, or Battlegrounds.

4. The transmog-helms were a missed opportunity to actually add more gameplay to WoW, as they could have very easily have been rare-drops or rewards for new, extravagant quests.

5. Transmogrification is "meaningful content" to some players, and the fact that Blizzard is now comfortable with charging for that content means that you can no longer count on having new, compelling Armor-designs to look forward to.

6. Like all cash-shop items, the transmog-helms will become meaningless; since there is literally zero effort put into obtaining them, they hold no sentimentality, and are destined to run the same gambit as the Heart of the Aspects, which leads into...

7. Many players frown upon Pets and Mounts being sold, because so many of them would have felt more satisfying as rewards for other feats. Sparkle-pony should have been a rare-drop from Algalon, which would have completely changed peoples' perception of it, Heart of the Aspects should have been a Fangs of the Father reward, and even the new Bat-mount, players have been asking for a bat-mount ever since Burning Crusade.

8. Every other MMO to attempt a cash-shop while also having a mandatory subscription has failed, which leads some to worry that this could hurt Blizzard financially in the long-term.

9. Another worry is that every MMO who attempted the same business-model also went Free-to-Play, which many players deem undesirable, and even fundamentally at-odds with what World of Warcraft used to be, since F2P games never have a "level playing-field".
all of this, this is exactly why I'm against microtransactions
Edited by Entix on 7/20/2013 1:30 PM PDT
100 Undead Mage
7965
I recently saw this on an article on ZAM and since all feedback threads are being locked I'll post it here.
Cardinal Sin #1: Double Dipping
you can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't have a f2p model with a cash shop.
The problem is that most MMOs with cash shops also keep their subscriptions optional. WoW’s is mandatory. While the pet store was on the website, it was separate and ignorable. Now that it’s in-game, the simple presence of its button induces a subtle pressure to pay more. Having a bigger wallets has made an impact in WoW (see Collector’s Editions, TCG items, and Blizzcon schwag) but the impression was passing.

That's not the case anymore. Every gameplay session is underlined by that ignorable, but irritating, little button. Players resent feeling nickel and dimed and when WoW, the most successful MMORPG in history, does it, they have a right to be irked.

Cardinal Sin #2: Ignoring the Original Problem
Selling experience potions is a problem and a big one. The simple fact is, after a certain point— say, an alt or two—players become tired of leveling through the same content. It doesn’t matter how good the quests are, after you’ve seen them a couple of times, they're played out. Blizzard's answer to this has been heirloom items and experience boosts. The Enduring Elixir of Wisdom piggy-backs on that concept but for real money.

There is a fundamental problem with Warcraft selling experience potions for cash: they're charging money to avoid designing a solution to the core problem. The vertical, Just Add Levels™, expansion scheme guaranteed that players would eventually want a way to bypass grinding the same content. Suggesting “maybe they'll pay their way out of it” isn't an acceptable solution, not when we're already paying a team of designers to actually design.

The current potion is limited to Mists of Pandaria content. That doesn't matter and players justifying it fail to see the pet store for the testing bed it is. Blizzard has discussed the problem of previous expansion leveling for years. With flagging subscription numbers, how long will it be before a 1-85 potion makes an appearance? If these sell, there will be zero motivation for Blizzard to do anything other.

Cardinal Sin #3: Making it Feel Mandatory
And simply because the above is true, buying experience potions is likely to feel mandatory. Raid groups will need their alternates, friends will want you to join them, and frankly, the phrase “the real game begins at level cap” is no truer than in World of Warcraft. There is powerful social and mechanical pressure pay up on that final level climb. Pandaria is a hike. Leveling at the normal rate for second time can feel so grindy that it’s groan inducing, especially riding on the back of the previous 85 levels.

While everything in the Pet Store is optional, given a little pressure and the general feeling that you just want to be through, you come up with a recipe for begrudged purchases and a more than $14.99/month investment.

Cardinal Sin #4: Designing for the Cash Shop
Blizzard is the king at ignoring fundamental lessons of the last few years, so it’s no surprise that it missed the one on not weighting design toward the cash shop. Selling vanity gear is no big deal when those items can be acquired in-game, but that’s not the case here. In the near future, Blizzard will be selling unique, ethereal headwear for real cash. In fact, these items are right up there with the best raid gear ever released, minus the stats. In the official post, Bashiok calls these “transmogrifiables.” That’s a category and we can expect more of it. Imagine a world where raiding no longer offered the exclusive take on the flashiest gear. That’s a real possibility. Now imagine how raiders, arguably some of the most dedicated World of Warcraft players, will react. And Blizzard doesn’t see this as a problem?

Let's also talk about pricing for a minute. Each of these head items will cost fifteen dollars. Fifteen dollars. That's beyond any form of micro-transaction and borders on price gouging. Then again, this is the company that introduced the world to the $25 sparkle pony, so it's not exactly a surprise. Just like then, Blizzard is setting an exorbitant price because they can count on players keeping up with the Joneses. More troubling, however, is a fact recently pointed out by Rob Roberts on the Horde House podcast: instead of incentivizing players returning to old content - perhaps the content these helms are themed after? - and offering players more value for their existing subscription, Blizzard is more concerned with opening your wallet for a separate fifteen-dollar charge. We can rightly ask: what are the developers more focused on, stocking the cash shop or making a better game?

There are also unique items, similar to those available in the trading card game, but nothing exists that would convince old players to return. Rather, it suggests that if you don't like it, don't buy it. Fair enough, but making an example of wringing existing players doesn't exactly make me want to re-subscribe.

Creating the perception that the design motivations are shifting away from the game and into the cash shop is a big cardinal sin.

Here's a link to the original article
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32747
90 Dwarf Paladin
3485


Then leave. I don't think you're adding much to this topic anymore anyhow.


It is my right as a "paying customer" to say what ever I want on the forums as long as I follow the ToS.

So if I want to say this game is garbage.. (400k subs a month leaving agree with me) then I can.


No one is saying you don't have the right, we are questioning the reasoning and the rationale. If you don't pay for the game and don't enjoy the game it doesn't seem to make much sense participating in a discussion about it. There are lots of things I don't like and I don't seek out discussion forums about them to discuss how much I don't like them.
100 Night Elf Hunter
14980
I recently saw this on an article on ZAM and since all feedback threads are being locked I'll post it here.
Cardinal Sin #1: Double Dipping
you can't have your cake and eat it too, you can't have a f2p model with a cash shop.
The problem is that most MMOs with cash shops also keep their subscriptions optional. WoW’s is mandatory. While the pet store was on the website, it was separate and ignorable. Now that it’s in-game, the simple presence of its button induces a subtle pressure to pay more. Having a bigger wallets has made an impact in WoW (see Collector’s Editions, TCG items, and Blizzcon schwag) but the impression was passing.

That's not the case anymore. Every gameplay session is underlined by that ignorable, but irritating, little button. Players resent feeling nickel and dimed and when WoW, the most successful MMORPG in history, does it, they have a right to be irked.

Cardinal Sin #2: Ignoring the Original Problem
Selling experience potions is a problem and a big one. The simple fact is, after a certain point— say, an alt or two—players become tired of leveling through the same content. It doesn’t matter how good the quests are, after you’ve seen them a couple of times, they're played out. Blizzard's answer to this has been heirloom items and experience boosts. The Enduring Elixir of Wisdom piggy-backs on that concept but for real money.

There is a fundamental problem with Warcraft selling experience potions for cash: they're charging money to avoid designing a solution to the core problem. The vertical, Just Add Levels™, expansion scheme guaranteed that players would eventually want a way to bypass grinding the same content. Suggesting “maybe they'll pay their way out of it” isn't an acceptable solution, not when we're already paying a team of designers to actually design.

The current potion is limited to Mists of Pandaria content. That doesn't matter and players justifying it fail to see the pet store for the testing bed it is. Blizzard has discussed the problem of previous expansion leveling for years. With flagging subscription numbers, how long will it be before a 1-85 potion makes an appearance? If these sell, there will be zero motivation for Blizzard to do anything other.

Cardinal Sin #3: Making it Feel Mandatory
And simply because the above is true, buying experience potions is likely to feel mandatory. Raid groups will need their alternates, friends will want you to join them, and frankly, the phrase “the real game begins at level cap” is no truer than in World of Warcraft. There is powerful social and mechanical pressure pay up on that final level climb. Pandaria is a hike. Leveling at the normal rate for second time can feel so grindy that it’s groan inducing, especially riding on the back of the previous 85 levels.

While everything in the Pet Store is optional, given a little pressure and the general feeling that you just want to be through, you come up with a recipe for begrudged purchases and a more than $14.99/month investment.

Cardinal Sin #4: Designing for the Cash Shop
Blizzard is the king at ignoring fundamental lessons of the last few years, so it’s no surprise that it missed the one on not weighting design toward the cash shop. Selling vanity gear is no big deal when those items can be acquired in-game, but that’s not the case here. In the near future, Blizzard will be selling unique, ethereal headwear for real cash. In fact, these items are right up there with the best raid gear ever released, minus the stats. In the official post, Bashiok calls these “transmogrifiables.” That’s a category and we can expect more of it. Imagine a world where raiding no longer offered the exclusive take on the flashiest gear. That’s a real possibility. Now imagine how raiders, arguably some of the most dedicated World of Warcraft players, will react. And Blizzard doesn’t see this as a problem?

Let's also talk about pricing for a minute. Each of these head items will cost fifteen dollars. Fifteen dollars. That's beyond any form of micro-transaction and borders on price gouging. Then again, this is the company that introduced the world to the $25 sparkle pony, so it's not exactly a surprise. Just like then, Blizzard is setting an exorbitant price because they can count on players keeping up with the Joneses. More troubling, however, is a fact recently pointed out by Rob Roberts on the Horde House podcast: instead of incentivizing players returning to old content - perhaps the content these helms are themed after? - and offering players more value for their existing subscription, Blizzard is more concerned with opening your wallet for a separate fifteen-dollar charge. We can rightly ask: what are the developers more focused on, stocking the cash shop or making a better game?

There are also unique items, similar to those available in the trading card game, but nothing exists that would convince old players to return. Rather, it suggests that if you don't like it, don't buy it. Fair enough, but making an example of wringing existing players doesn't exactly make me want to re-subscribe.

Creating the perception that the design motivations are shifting away from the game and into the cash shop is a big cardinal sin.

Here's a link to the original article
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32747


Outstanding post in every sense of the word. It's a clear, concise, well reasoned summation of a few of the major issues with Blizzard's chosen path and why it's so offensive. Well done!
100 Night Elf Hunter
14980
There are just several issues layered upon one another. I'll try to summarize a bit:

1. Your subscription is paying for content that you're literally incapable of obtaining without further payment.

2. XP-boosts and Charms of Good Fortune are "pay-to-win", because on some level, they provide an advantage to those with more money.

3. They is a serious, logical concern that these will lead to even more microtransactions, ranging from purchasing actual armor, to even charging to access new Dungeons, Raids, or Battlegrounds.

4. The transmog-helms were a missed opportunity to actually add more gameplay to WoW, as they could have very easily have been rare-drops or rewards for new, extravagant quests.

5. Transmogrification is "meaningful content" to some players, and the fact that Blizzard is now comfortable with charging for that content means that you can no longer count on having new, compelling Armor-designs to look forward to.

6. Like all cash-shop items, the transmog-helms will become meaningless; since there is literally zero effort put into obtaining them, they hold no sentimentality, and are destined to run the same gambit as the Heart of the Aspects, which leads into...

7. Many players frown upon Pets and Mounts being sold, because so many of them would have felt more satisfying as rewards for other feats. Sparkle-pony should have been a rare-drop from Algalon, which would have completely changed peoples' perception of it, Heart of the Aspects should have been a Fangs of the Father reward, and even the new Bat-mount, players have been asking for a bat-mount ever since Burning Crusade.

8. Every other MMO to attempt a cash-shop while also having a mandatory subscription has failed, which leads some to worry that this could hurt Blizzard financially in the long-term.

9. Another worry is that every MMO who attempted the same business-model also went Free-to-Play, which many players deem undesirable, and even fundamentally at-odds with what World of Warcraft used to be, since F2P games never have a "level playing-field".


And this is a really great recap of the issues presented in this 220+ page thread; very important for those new readers that choose not to sift through the backlog of posts. Thanks, Mal!
100 Worgen Death Knight
18035
07/20/2013 02:06 PMPosted by Aranel
With flagging subscription numbers, how long will it be before a 1-85 potion makes an appearance?


There is one already.
Drops off a rare in Dread Wastes.
dyeptg
100 Orc Shaman
9645
07/20/2013 02:06 PMPosted by Aranel
There is a fundamental problem with Warcraft selling experience potions for cash: they're charging money to avoid designing a solution to the core problem.


Except the potion is not being created to solve any kind of problem.

There is no problem.

Every other MMO to attempt a cash-shop while also having a mandatory subscription has failed, which leads some to worry that this could hurt Blizzard financially in the long-term.


Yes, clearly those games failed 100%, solely because of the cash shop/sub model clashing.

Not because of poor gameplay, lack of endgame content, character imbalance, lack of content patches or anything else. Obviously they failed because of the cash shop. Are you kidding me right now?
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