Hunter PvE opener rotation

90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
Before you read: this is obviously PVE ONLY and intended for hunters who really desire to min/max their damage output.

Spreadsheet for our current opener (ToT, BM):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCalM00QzDrdFBKRk9jUWZtbFRNVVBPaEpnU0d3TGc#gid=0

Spreadsheet for next tier opener (after readiness nerf, SoO, BM 2p+4p):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet
/ccc?key=0AqCalM00QzDrdGNnemNGY0M1OXF5Vk5EdVhXcVJWSXc#gid=0

(to open the spreadsheets, just copy and paste the adress above into your browser)

Please post here if you have any questions as to why i placed things where they are in the opener, or if you have any suggestions. As far as i know, these are flawless openers, but I am open to well-described fact supported reasons as to why i should change anything.
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 9:21 PM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
4160
Why is it that you

DB
Stampede
KC
GT
SS

As opposed to

SS
DB
Stampede
KC
GT

In order to maintain as close to 100% uptime as possible, shouldn't you be launching your serpent sting first?

Also, by popping Dire Beast, Stampede, then Kill Command w/ Beastial Wrath & Rapid Fire, are you getting focused capped?
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
06/27/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Tortirra
In order to maintain as close to 100% uptime as possible, shouldn't you be launching your serpent sting first?


Because SS is a snapshot dot until refreshed via manual application or cobra shot, using it during bestial wrath makes it do +10% more damage, and trinket procs usually occur just before SS is applied in the opener i use. it will be ticking for quite a bit more damage if you use it later Serpent sting ticks once every 3 seconds - and not on the initial application, so you are sacrificing one tick for probably +30-40% damage depending on your trinkets.

Also, by popping Dire Beast, Stampede, then Kill Command w/ Beastial Wrath & Rapid Fire, are you getting focused capped?


Yes. but getting focus capped during a BM opener is nearly inevitable unless you are casting things before your first Bestial Wrath. And when i get focus capped, it is for no more than a GCD. In this case, the DPS loss from getting focus capped is outweighed by the gain of casting these abilities during BW.

It is also worth noting that BW is currently bugged, and has been since the beginning of MoP. Pet basic attacks and Kill Commands will not benefit from Bestial Wrath immediately, so you cannot use a BW+KC macro, nor can you manually cast them at the same time. You need to pop bestial wrath 0.3+ seconds into the previous GCD if you want KC to get its +20% damage buff from BW.

Also, contrary to what most people think, Stampede no longer benefits from Rapid Fire. Previously, the only benefit Stampede pets gained from Rapid Fire was increased focus regeneration, but now that they cant cast Claw/Bite/Smack or special abilities, they no longer benefit.
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 4:10 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13725
Because SS is a snapshot dot


It is not a snap shot dot, it updates dynamically. there is no benifit to delaying this. Geting it up asap spends 15 focus, and casting an arcane shot for hunters mark another 20, then you wont be wasting focus from DB.

Also, rapid fire never benifited stampede, it is ranged haste, that only effects the hunters focus regen. Melee haste benifits pet focus regen, or pure haste.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
It is not a snap shot dot, it updates dynamically. there is no benifit to delaying this. Geting it up asap spends 15 focus, and casting an arcane shot for hunters mark another 20, then you wont be wasting focus from DB.


Please go test this as I have, it is snapshot UNTIL refreshed with cobra shot, or reapplied. it does not update dynamically if you do not refresh it (also, note there are no cobra shots in this opener, letting it tick for max damage until it falls off, then you reapply it again, this time with bestial wrath up and bad juju+max renataki stacks). You should also manually apply Hunter's Mark before the pull. It doesn't pull the boss.

Found an external source:

http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2010/11/serpent-sting-interaction-with-chimera-and-cobra-shot-in-cataclysm/

"Every time your fire your Chimera Shot or Cobra Shot it completely recalculates the Serpent Sting damage. It recalculates everything from attack power to %damage buffs and debuffs."

Also, rapid fire never benifited stampede, it is ranged haste, that only effects the hunters focus regen. Melee haste benifits pet focus regen, or pure haste.


It will increase your pet's Focus regeneration, but not its attack speed. This includes pets summoned by Stampede. The only problem now is that Stampede pets no longer have any way to spend focus. But it was a dps increase to stack rapid fire and stampede pre-stampede nerf.

Found an external source:

http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2012/11/pets-haste-ranged-attack-speed/

"Pets also inherit 125% of hunter focus regen. Thus your pets focus regen rate will always be 125% of your focus regen rate.

This means that if the hunter gets a ranged haste effect like Rapid Fire, this will boost the hunters attack speed and focus regen. The pet does not get an attack speed boost, but does get the extra focus regen."
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 4:32 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Hunter
7540
Both our trinkets have a 20 second proc and usually proc at the start of the fight so wouldn't you be better off using Bestial Wrath at the start of the fight and then again when the first one expires to get the most out of trinket procs? As it is now the last 5 seconds of the second Bestial Wrath only benefits from the last 5 seconds of prepot and not from trinkets
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
Both our trinkets have a 20 second proc and usually proc at the start of the fight so wouldn't you be better off using Bestial Wrath at the start of the fight and then again when the first one expires to get the most out of trinket procs? As it is now the last 5 seconds of the second Bestial Wrath only benefits from the last 5 seconds of prepot and not from trinkets


No, because if you bestial wrath immediately, you end up needing to cast Stampede and Dire Beast during bestial wrath, losing +10% damage and halved cost on two arcane shots. The goal is to get as many pet basic attacks, kill commands, and arcane shots during bestial wrath as possible - For petattacks, it is prefered that your pet has over 50 focus (when bite is cast when pet has more than 50 focus, it does double the damage for double the cost - which is why Fervor is so amazing for BM AoE, on fights like Lei Shen [ball lightnings]).

The way this opener lines up (assuming you are max range from the boss) is that your trinkets will proc at the 2 second mark (having a startattack macro with dire beast) - making it so both the Serpent Sting and Kill Command at 21 and 22 seconds are both cast with max renataki stacks just before both trinket procs fall off.

Note: the reason the second BW is delayed is to maximize the Petattacks that benefit from BW (if it was 1 or 2 seconds earlier or later, the second BW would have 3 petattacks instead of 4). Also, dire beast is best cast before BW, because it benefits from bestial wrath Retroactively (if you pop DB then BW, it gets the damage buff)

Edit: Putting trinket procs on T15 spreadsheet (renataki and bad juju)
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 5:22 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
Please feel free to link these spreadsheets and/or this thread to your friends. Remember to leave any suggestions here if you'd like to see anything added to the spreadsheet that i could be missing.
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90 Troll Hunter
6480
I believe it's preferred to get a cobra or two out early even though it results in focus overcapping you are almost guaranteed to have 2pc proc with full buffs up (the hawks do pretty solid damage).
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
I believe it's preferred to get a cobra or two out early even though it results in focus overcapping you are almost guaranteed to have 2pc proc with full buffs up (the hawks do pretty solid damage).


Potentially, but the problem with that is that unless heroism is up, it takes over a gcd to cast, the shot itself does nearly no damage, and it refreshes your serpent sting which could lead it to lose the initial damage it was ticking with (especially if you cast it inbetween bestial wraths), as it is snapshot until you cobra. Also, I've not tested it, but I believe 2P and 4P are RPPM?

If this is true, it may be worth pre-casting cobra just to spawn a thunderhawk. Would like to hear other peoples experience with this. How consistently does it proc on your first cobra? Is it guaranteed to proc like RPPM trinkets are after a certain amount of time out of combat?

Edit: may test this tonight to see if they consistently proc on first cobra. Only problem is that it makes you pre-potion slightly earlier, resulting in it being down for 1-2 seconds later on, and would need to slightly edit placement of 2nd BW to line up with trinket procs (as they would proc 2 seconds earlier)
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 8:53 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
Results so far on CS testing (small sample size):
- Each cobra (after being out of combat for 5~+ minutes, allowing RPPM to reach maximum proc chance) has consistently proced a thunderhawk.
-Each thunderhawk (Self-buffed) does 180-220k damage
-If cobra is timed properly with pull timer and standing at max range, trinkets should proc at same time as before.

So far pre-casting cobra seems worth it. will post again soon if anything changes.

Edit: added frag belt to spreadsheet, put it within first BW because it benefits from the +10% damage bonus of BW.
Edited by Trictagon on 6/27/2013 9:08 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
Thank you for the addition to the spreadsheet Aertea. will net about 230k-250k~ damage on each pull with this precast cobra shot. Completely forgot 2p was RPPM
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90 Pandaren Hunter
10165
More constructive suggestions are appreciated. Be sure to share this with anyone who needs help with their opener.
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