How exactly is Sylvanas any different now?

I get if the character isn't your cup of tea, but I don't get any of this hate. As far as I can tell, Sylvanas is still acting as she always had, that being vainly, and for her own ends.

The forsaken were originally just her tool to get her revenge on Arthas for what he did to her. She never really gave a damn. Furthermore she is no more vain now than before. Hell she use to have a demon as a guard because she was foolish enough to think she had control over him, which damn near cost her the undercity.

Likewise, she isn't making some kind of "Lich Queen" power move. Had she wanted to be the Lich Queen, after her val'kyr resurrected her from suicide, she woulda have tried to replace Bolvar. It was insted made real clear that Sylvanas is using the Val'kyr, Forsaken, and the Horde as a whole as her shield against going to hell. Everyone is, as always, a tool for her to use.

So what I ask, is how exactly has her character actually changed?
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100 Draenei Monk
20790
Well, resurrecting the dead and using the plague are certainly a new things.
Edited by Lena on 6/28/2013 5:36 PM PDT
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I agree that she hasn't changed.

But I also believe she's been a 2nd Lich Queen since the end of WCIII. To me, all that changed is that she got more tools.

Sylvanas, post-death, has always been a creature of hatred with an intent to destroy humanity. She's just gotten better at it.
Edited by Jaelara on 6/28/2013 5:37 PM PDT
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100 Dwarf Hunter
8350
Is there new hate that wasn't there before?

She'll always be "Zomb-boobs, hackneyed fantasy Kerrigan" to me. And has been (the latter part at least) since WC 3.

I don't think there's been much of an opinion shift, at least not recently. The people who disliked her years ago still do. The people who think she's the bees knees still like bee knees.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725
Well, resurrecting the dead and using the plague are certainly a new things.


If she could have done that in WC3 she would have. And she's been using the plague for 8 years, it's not that new.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
17265
Is there new hate that wasn't there before?

She'll always be "Zomb-boobs, hackneyed fantasy Kerrigan" to me. And has been (the latter part at least) since WC 3.

I don't think there's been much of an opinion shift, at least not recently. The people who disliked her years ago still do. The people who think she's the bees knees still like bee knees.


... Can we have ONE Sylvanas thread where someone doesn't start obsessing with her boobs? Please?

Yes, yes. I get it. You're ironically obsessed with her boobs. All her fans, oh, they're REALLY obsessed with her boobs, but you talk about her boobs non-stop to prove her boobs have no power over you.

Except it's gross and annoying. Stop.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
8350
Is there new hate that wasn't there before?

She'll always be "Zomb-boobs, hackneyed fantasy Kerrigan" to me. And has been (the latter part at least) since WC 3.

I don't think there's been much of an opinion shift, at least not recently. The people who disliked her years ago still do. The people who think she's the bees knees still like bee knees.


... Can we have ONE Sylvanas thread where someone doesn't start obsessing with her boobs? Please?

Yes, yes. I get it. You're ironically obsessed with her boobs. All her fans, oh, they're REALLY obsessed with her boobs, but you talk about her boobs non-stop to prove her boobs have no power over you.

Except it's gross and annoying. Stop.


Holy crap, you're out of your gourd.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Is there new hate that wasn't there before?

She'll always be "Zomb-boobs, hackneyed fantasy Kerrigan" to me. And has been (the latter part at least) since WC 3.

I don't think there's been much of an opinion shift, at least not recently. The people who disliked her years ago still do. The people who think she's the bees knees still like bee knees.


... Can we have ONE Sylvanas thread where someone doesn't start obsessing with her boobs? Please?

Yes, yes. I get it. You're ironically obsessed with her boobs. All her fans, oh, they're REALLY obsessed with her boobs, but you talk about her boobs non-stop to prove her boobs have no power over you.

Except it's gross and annoying. Stop.


He was joking.
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100 Draenei Paladin
19360
Her character hasn't changed, just her actions.

Using the plague to attack Alliance settlements and then raising Alliance dead against their will is what changed.

All of that with absolutely no response from the Alliance.

That is what changed and that is why so many more players hate her now then previously.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725

... Can we have ONE Sylvanas thread where someone doesn't start obsessing with her boobs? Please?

Yes, yes. I get it. You're ironically obsessed with her boobs. All her fans, oh, they're REALLY obsessed with her boobs, but you talk about her boobs non-stop to prove her boobs have no power over you.

Except it's gross and annoying. Stop.


I've seen the same 3 posters talk about her body in multiple threads. They are all Alliance posters who "hate" her and obsess about how the only reason anyone would play forsaken is because of sylvanas in game model.

I think they have issues.
Edited by Threeslotbag on 6/28/2013 6:40 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
16305
I have always hated Sylvanas, I think she is overrated as a commander and is a hypocrite. She supposedly hated Arthas but really, what does she do that Arthas doesn't? She even says it when talking to Garrosh when he asks what the difference is between her and the Lich King. Sylvanas says "isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde." She admits she became exactly what she hates the most.

As for being overrated as a commander look at every battle, she never wins anything without the aid of her "I Win" buttons plague and valkyr. The Alliance always gains the upper hand battling the Forsaken but lose because Sylvanas can raise the dead or just dump Plague. When has Sylvanas beaten the Alliance with troop movement and strength? You know, the things that make someone a good commander. If Sylvanas is a military genius then so is Harry Truman.
Edited by Bradlas on 6/28/2013 6:43 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
17265
But, really, nothing changed.

The Forsaken are not good people. They were never good people. At the start of WoW, they were literally bad people who tricked the Horde (especially the Tauren - and even then, it was hinted that it's less Tauren gullibility, and more an underground alliance with Magatha) into thinking they weren't.

That was the plot. "Man, the Horde are suckers, they don't notice how we constantly keep talking about killing all life, including them!"

If anything, Modern Forsaken are slightly less bad than the original ones. Even with the Val'kyr. There was always the undertone that, yes, the Forsaken were playing the Horde for fools and intend to destroy all the living. Eventually, it came out that only some of the Forsaken feel that way, the faction splintered off, rebelled against Sylvanas, and left us with Forsaken that, at least, are honestly not planning to kill their allies.

That's as good as they get, guys.

They are, in essence, Playable Scourge. They were changed slightly, appearance-wise and plot-wise to make sense, and, of course, the Scourge Proper were their enemy. That does not change that they were meant to appeal to the WCIII Scourge players. The whole point of WoW, especially in the early days, was to bring the RTS game to a new format.

I guess the only thing that changed is that people are keen to pull another Garrosh.

Except Garrosh is a divisive figure pulling the Horde back to its dark days - and was introduced in the first Expansion, slowly made more relevant, and built up to this. Sylvanas is a founding member. The Forsaken never had any not-dark days.

The Forsaken have no "Thrall", keen to teach them to be nice and loving and caring - nor do they need one pulled out of a hat. There are the bad Forsaken, who distrust the living and are willing to do whatever it takes to kill all who threaten them (even remotely) - and then there are the worse Forsaken, who loathe the living, and want to destroy them all. The Forsaken who are simply bad manage to keep the worse ones in check.

Sylvanas still belongs to the first half of that. Her focus is on securing her territory and replenishing the numbers they lost in their various conflicts - and no, she has no moral scruples to that end. The worse Forsaken are the ones who bombed the lot of us at the Wrathgate. The bad Forsaken fight against them.

It's a consistent dynamic.

The not-very-evil Forsaken are almost exclusively members of neutral groups.

The Forsaken are doing what the Forsaken do. The race is following their original concept. It's a bit late to be wagging your finger at them, or claiming they're too evil to be a playable race. If you wanted to do that, well, you should've done it before WoW launched.

And dumping it all on Sylvanas is just plain ridiculous. The best examples we have of how the Forsaken would act if she wasn't in charge are Putress and Warden Stillwater. The woman is not a mad dictator twisting the Forsaken to bad ends. She is the Cold, Calculating, Vicious, Evil Leader of a Cold, Calculating, Vicious, Evil Race, who would be Psycho-Pants-On-Head KILL THEM ALL EVIL without her.
Edited by Sylassanna on 6/28/2013 6:47 PM PDT
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Well, resurrecting the dead and using the plague are certainly a new things.


She used to possess the living instead of raising dead true, but if she coulda she woulda back then.

As for the plague? Shes been building it for a long time now. Its like some shady looking character is loading a gun and then everyones surprised when someone gets shot.

I love Sylvanas, and while I know many people don't I hope Blizzard doesn't give into the complaining and kill her off Garrosh style.
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I have always hated Sylvanas, I think she is overrated as a commander and is a hypocrite. She supposedly hated Arthas but really, what does she do that Arthas doesn't? She even says it when talking to Garrosh when he asks what the difference is between her and the Lich King. Sylvanas says "isn't it obvious? I serve the Horde." She admits she became exactly what she hates the most.


It was never an issue of morality. arthas tortured her. She hated him for what he did to her, not for being the lich king.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
17265
Back in the old days, questing in Forsaken territory on a different Horde race basically meant assembling the increasingly complicated means of one's own death. Like you were building a Rube Goldberg Machine to drop a piano on your own head (something you should've noticed, on account of the piano swaying over your head).

There was even a Tauren hanging around the Apothecary, to provide a reeeeally blatant example of just how much the Horde can trust them (she dies in the end - the Forsaken do a very bad job of pretending they "just couldn't save her, but tooootally would have if we could!")

The current Forsaken, and Sylvanas herself, are actually slightly less evil than they were back then. There are a few examples of Forsaken stopping other Forsaken who go too far. When WoW launched, there was no sign that the race, as a whole, had concept of "too far" at all.

The original Forsaken were a race who intended to destroy the Scourge, and the living. All of them. That was the goal of the faction. It was their "secret", but it was the worst disguised secret in the game's history. The average Forsaken character's dialogue was along the lines of "Hee,hee, yes, yes, with this rare mushroom you got me, we are one step closer to... to... well, NOT to destroying all life, heh, heh. Yes. Closer to something else entirely!"

Then the Apothecaries splintered off, were revealed to be tools of the Legion, Sylvanas fought to get her city back, and so on.

The current Forsaken are a race who probably don't intend to kill the rest of the Horde. That's a sizable improvement. They're using their Blight as a weapon of war - but aren't planning on releasing virulent diseases on the rest of the world indiscriminately. And they are no longer constantly talking about killing every single living person ever.
Edited by Sylassanna on 6/28/2013 7:29 PM PDT
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... Can we have ONE Sylvanas thread where someone doesn't start obsessing with her boobs? Please?

Yes, yes. I get it. You're ironically obsessed with her boobs. All her fans, oh, they're REALLY obsessed with her boobs, but you talk about her boobs non-stop to prove her boobs have no power over you.

Except it's gross and annoying. Stop.


Holy crap, you're out of your gourd.


Nah, she has a point. Reducing Sylvanas to her sexual attributes is pretty gross.
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100 Human Paladin
16305
It was never an issue of morality. arthas tortured her. She hated him for what he did to her, not for being the lich king.

Maybe the military genius shouldn't have lost in Quel'thalas then. She also allowed Arthas to become the Lich King. In Warcraft 3 frozen throne she had a chance to kill Arthas while he was still in Lordaeron but she instead wanted him to "suffer" so she waited to kill him then Kel'thuzad showed up and fought her and her loser banshees off and Arthas walked away and went to Northrend to stop Illidan from destroying the Frozen Throne and then became Lich King.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15525


He was joking.


It was not particularly funny. As others have said, reducing her to sexual attributes basically nullifies meaningful conversation we might have about her, in addition to being pretty weird.
Edited by Enekie on 6/28/2013 8:35 PM PDT
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100 Dwarf Hunter
8350


He was joking.


It was not particularly funny. As others have said, reducing her to sexual attributes basically nullifies meaningful conversation we might have about her, in addition to being pretty weird.


The weird ship sailed when blizz applied the typical fantasy female treatment to a walking corpse. Which is the point of "zomb-boobs". Ridiculing a character I find to absurd, even in a setting that is by its very nature full of absurdity.

If people want to read more in to it than that, well, they're welcome to their delusions. But I just gave you the begging middle and end of it.
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100 Undead Warlock
7010
The weird ship sailed when blizz applied the typical fantasy female treatment to a walking corpse. Which is the point of "zomb-boobs". Ridiculing a character I find to absurd, even in a setting that is by its very nature full of absurdity.

If people want to read more in to it than that, well, they're welcome to their delusions. But I just gave you the begging middle and end of it.

Undead have been sexualized way, way earlier than this. You seem to be very out of the loop.
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