25m Resto Druids, Lend me your rears!

90 Tauren Druid
8435
So, I'm switching to 25m from 10m..I've never raided 25man because, well I hate 25man. Too much drama usually. My understanding is that I will be designated raid healer;

2H Pallies, 1Hpriest, 1Dpriest, 1Rsham and myself.

Should I get more spirit? (10 600 or so, give or take currently) 10man does not stress my mana at all.

How much spirit should be ok in 25m? I know spirit is a matter of comfort, should I wait it out and give er' a couple of encounters to really adjust myself or am I going to hit a wall and wonder wtfmana on the first boss?
Reply Quote
1 Blood Elf Hunter
0
You'll find it more beneficial to spam as many rejuvs as humanly possible in 25s without going bankrupt. The only way to reliably achieve this is with more spirit. You'll still keep LB on the tanks but direct healing will be much less than what you're use to in 10s.

There is always the mindset change of having so many bars that need healing and for you to realize that there are more healers helping out.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
6795
I would suggest about 11k, maybe 12, spirit since you have your meta. That should be completely fine. Only fight I run oom on is meg right at the end of the fight. Only reason for a bit more spirit is as stated you're going to be spamming a lot more rejuvs. You should probably pick up the WG glyph if you haven't already as that will save you some mana aswell.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
10660
I'm running about 13.5k spirit, and its completely overkill. I was most comfortable running about 11.5k-12k and reforging out of some spirit. Depending on your co-healers you can probably afford to drop more (2 HoH + MTT if they use them at all). I don't think it will be as bad with your comp but I found myself going for the higher haste BP to combat the stupid amount of absorbs in my raid group (double disc + holy pally). My priests are jerks too.. they like to grip me during tranq =[
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
11595
I looked around your guild but couldn't make a logical guess on who your Resto Shaman is. I'd check if he/she stacks spirit and will continue to do so for the rest of ToT and Siege. If so you can always drop more spirit. I see you have the LMG so I'd lower your current 13k for sure. I mean one healer to the other I'd err on the side of caution for your first few raids. Bring a little more spirit. And drop a little each week.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
9425
We recently transisitioned to 25m -- and I'm more than happy with 10.5k spirit
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8435
I looked around your guild but couldn't make a logical guess on who your Resto Shaman is. I'd check if he/she stacks spirit and will continue to do so for the rest of ToT and Siege. If so you can always drop more spirit. I see you have the LMG so I'd lower your current 13k for sure. I mean one healer to the other I'd err on the side of caution for your first few raids. Bring a little more spirit. And drop a little each week.


We do not currently have one. Seeking one. Also seeking disc priest and an assortment of RDps.

We've essentially merged 2 10man teams into 25man. as one team had a few people take off for the summer.

We had a Rsham and Disc Priest try out this week, and let's just say it did not go well. It also didn't help that Raid leader could not make the second night, due to july 4th plans, and so Heroic Ji kun really went to crap. Nobody in the group had ever seen 25man before, we're a 10man guild...

So, without thinking of course, naturally, we rolled into Ji Kun with our regular 10man nest team, most reliable and mechanically sound members, myself included. It took about 1 minute before we realized 'o noes this is going to be a bad night'

Yeh, so...Nests are vastly different on 25man... I've had a hard time finding great videos for 25man, I've always relied upon Fatboss, but I can't find one for 25man..

The way I see it, it appears you need more than 2 nest teams (how we did it in 10man, heroic obviously) and likely everyone has to go at some point.

This is where it fell apart, because yeah, new 25man team, 8 or 9 people we had never seen before and so...yep..most of them didn't even make it to assigned nests. Overall it was a really frustrating night because I could not get reliable 25man information for Ji kun and the pugs/new people were largely dead weight.
I ended up just drinking beer until I literally don't remember what happened. We broke it down to 2 10man teams at some point just to clear for some of the people who were actually competent.

Now that I've vented some of that...I'm ok with my spirit. I'm going to run a bit higher spirit until we can find reliable last 2 healers. Though I must admit, I feel dirty wearing a couple of pure spirit gems...just feels weird. But my throughput's more than fine at the moment.
Edited by Tonydanza on 7/5/2013 9:28 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
13095
I'm basically useless on the Resto Druid front here (reading because I'm curious about the spec actually), but as a 25m raider:

http://manaflask.com/en/guides <-- Method's 25H guides, unfortunately they are missing a few bosses (Ji-Kun being one of them) but the ones they have are stellar

What we did for 25H Ji-Kun though was to split up our nest assignments into four groups - each group consisting of four DPS and one healer, and they would each be assigned their own section of nests rather than being "the nest team" as you would on 10m. I honestly don't remember the exact order of how it plays out, but it works out so that each group has a lower nest (there are four lower nests of course) and then as necessary they parlay those into middle and uppers. I literally have only done this fight as a main tank so I only know the nest crap from LFR >.<

Two healers and the two main tanks remained on the platform at all times. We needed a third tank to memorize the nest guardian spawns and go tank those. Something like this: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=69712#comments:id=1853554 - can reliably show you when they spawn.

It definitely is a very different fight than 10H, at least to my understanding.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11990
07/05/2013 09:28 AMPosted by Tonydanza
I looked around your guild but couldn't make a logical guess on who your Resto Shaman is. I'd check if he/she stacks spirit and will continue to do so for the rest of ToT and Siege. If so you can always drop more spirit. I see you have the LMG so I'd lower your current 13k for sure. I mean one healer to the other I'd err on the side of caution for your first few raids. Bring a little more spirit. And drop a little each week.


We do not currently have one. Seeking one. Also seeking disc priest and an assortment of RDps.

We've essentially merged 2 10man teams into 25man. as one team had a few people take off for the summer.

We had a Rsham and Disc Priest try out this week, and let's just say it did not go well. It also didn't help that Raid leader could not make the second night, due to july 4th plans, and so Heroic Ji kun really went to crap. Nobody in the group had ever seen 25man before, we're a 10man guild...

So, without thinking of course, naturally, we rolled into Ji Kun with our regular 10man nest team, most reliable and mechanically sound members, myself included. It took about 1 minute before we realized 'o noes this is going to be a bad night'

Yeh, so...Nests are vastly different on 25man... I've had a hard time finding great videos for 25man, I've always relied upon Fatboss, but I can't find one for 25man..

The way I see it, it appears you need more than 2 nest teams (how we did it in 10man, heroic obviously) and likely everyone has to go at some point.

This is where it fell apart, because yeah, new 25man team, 8 or 9 people we had never seen before and so...yep..most of them didn't even make it to assigned nests. Overall it was a really frustrating night because I could not get reliable 25man information for Ji kun and the pugs/new people were largely dead weight.
I ended up just drinking beer until I literally don't remember what happened. We broke it down to 2 10man teams at some point just to clear for some of the people who were actually competent.

Now that I've vented some of that...I'm ok with my spirit. I'm going to run a bit higher spirit until we can find reliable last 2 healers. Though I must admit, I feel dirty wearing a couple of pure spirit gems...just feels weird. But my throughput's more than fine at the moment.


FYI, very high spirit is how the best 25H Druids roll. Spirit reforge, sparkling, purified, and zen gems is pretty standard for heroics, especially as you enter the last 6 bosses.

Some have slightly different gemming (maybe using artful gems instead of purified and more zens in both blue/ytellow), but all of the really strong Druids are at 15K spirit or more, even with different gemming.
Edited by Fangthorn on 7/7/2013 8:30 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8435


We do not currently have one. Seeking one. Also seeking disc priest and an assortment of RDps.

We've essentially merged 2 10man teams into 25man. as one team had a few people take off for the summer.

We had a Rsham and Disc Priest try out this week, and let's just say it did not go well. It also didn't help that Raid leader could not make the second night, due to july 4th plans, and so Heroic Ji kun really went to crap. Nobody in the group had ever seen 25man before, we're a 10man guild...

So, without thinking of course, naturally, we rolled into Ji Kun with our regular 10man nest team, most reliable and mechanically sound members, myself included. It took about 1 minute before we realized 'o noes this is going to be a bad night'

Yeh, so...Nests are vastly different on 25man... I've had a hard time finding great videos for 25man, I've always relied upon Fatboss, but I can't find one for 25man..

The way I see it, it appears you need more than 2 nest teams (how we did it in 10man, heroic obviously) and likely everyone has to go at some point.

This is where it fell apart, because yeah, new 25man team, 8 or 9 people we had never seen before and so...yep..most of them didn't even make it to assigned nests. Overall it was a really frustrating night because I could not get reliable 25man information for Ji kun and the pugs/new people were largely dead weight.
I ended up just drinking beer until I literally don't remember what happened. We broke it down to 2 10man teams at some point just to clear for some of the people who were actually competent.

Now that I've vented some of that...I'm ok with my spirit. I'm going to run a bit higher spirit until we can find reliable last 2 healers. Though I must admit, I feel dirty wearing a couple of pure spirit gems...just feels weird. But my throughput's more than fine at the moment.


FYI, very high spirit is how the best 25H Druids roll. Spirit reforge, sparkling, purified, and zen gems is pretty standard for heroics, especially as you enter the last 6 bosses.

Some have slightly different gemming (maybe using artful gems instead of purified and more zens in both blue/ytellow), but all of the really strong Druids are at 15K spirit or more, even with different gemming.


Correct me if I'am wrong.

But by saying "is how the best druids roll" are you talking about hardcore very high end progression?
My group is more casual, if you're talking about that, they're probably running highly optimized raids, bringing bare minimum healers etc, thus spirit may be a much higher priority? My guild would do no such thing, as I said, casual. Will never drop a healer - At this rate. 25man is still in it's infancy.

Could you clarify the bolded a bit please. As currently constituted, my spirit is more than enough. Keeping in mind, 25m is still in it's infancy, the last 6 Heroics - At this rate given the new people, is a long ways away...
Edited by Tonydanza on 7/7/2013 1:09 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11990
When I am referencing the best Druids, I am speaking generally about Druids in the top 100 25M guilds. I would not call it very high end progression, as some of these guilds are just 3-day and what some might call "semi-hardcore". Anyway, after so many years you start to recognize and follow those players. But overall I would be hard pressed to find any Druid in a top 25m guild, who does not stack spirit.

And I would not necessarily say this has anything to do with under-healing, jsut healing normally (in ToT this is 5-7, with 6 for most fights). But then, if you over-heal everything, that is another story

Anyway, the reasoning for high spirit is right in the first response to your OP. Rejuvenation spam, proactively and in order to constantly charge mushrooms; also to support constant regrowths on the tank (or certain de-buffs and triage) as needed. Both are very costly. Also, there are times when you may lose a healer (due to a death) while closing in on a kill, and under-healing is forced on you :D

I would gear this way in any context for 25-man, unless fights are being grossly over-healed. I don't really see casual status as having any real impact. If you feel comfortable, I would argue you are not casting nearly enough Rejuvenations or Regrowths per fight.
Edited by Fangthorn on 7/7/2013 3:43 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
12965
I'm considering more spirit for myself, though I find it hard to justify at this point with 2 high spirit R shaman in the raid. Current guild overheals stuff compared to what I was used too so I dropped spirit after 20 iLvls curiously enough.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
6795
FYI, very high spirit is how the best 25H Druids roll. Spirit reforge, sparkling, purified, and zen gems is pretty standard for heroics, especially as you enter the last 6 bosses.

Some have slightly different gemming (maybe using artful gems instead of purified and more zens in both blue/ytellow), but all of the really strong Druids are at 15K spirit or more, even with different gemming.


I guess my buddy must not be a very good resto druid because he rolls with roughly 10k spirit. ( logged out in boomkin gear atm, but maybe when you see this it will change)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Vorpster/simple

I mean !@#$, they're only top 5 US, so maybe he's not hardcore enough.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11990
According to his wowheroes, he has over 13k, maybe you do not know him that well?

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Zul%27jin/vorpster/

Anyway, there are always slight exceptions, and it is farm fun time for most of us now. But if you look that the top ranking Druids I think you will find very few go for lower than 14k.

http://proraiders.com/ranks/index.php?spec=Restoration_Druid

Nice name BTW! Though his last few fights were anything but the prodigy.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11990
Anyway, my only point was to say that going for high spirit is a solid option:

Though I must admit, I feel dirty wearing a couple of pure spirit gems...just feels weird.


And that the OP should not feel dirty!

How people want to gear is their own choice and dependent on lots of factors, comp, farm/progression, playstyle... But I will stand by my opinion that the strongest Druids tend to go for high spirit and adjust their playstyle to have a higher volume of casts.
Edited by Fangthorn on 7/8/2013 12:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
10000
I don't think there's anything wrong with running 'obscenely' high spirit in 25s.

For some background on where that opinion comes from... a little over a month ago, I main swapped back to my druid from my priest because the 10m guild I was in, or at least its raid, fell apart and I prefer my druid on the whole (I was playing my priest for composition - our other available healers were rdruid/mw - and disc's general strength in 10m).

I was ~510 ilvl, no meta gem, ~11k spirit, and still using t14 4pc, but I had done ~4/13H on my druid. I wasn't having any serious mana issues on the fights I had done (Iron Qon was tightest, but still manageable), so I was expecting that I would drop a fair amount of spirit when I got my meta.

But because my raid had fallen apart, I joined a 25m guild that was more progressed (11/13 at the time) and found that the mana situation was pretty different, even though I had gotten my meta. Even though I retained my t14 2pc for a while, mana consumption was significantly higher than it had been previously. Whether it was because the fights were harder, having more targets to rejuv in 25m compared to 10, other changes in healing style, or some combination thereof, I wasn't comfortable with dropping spirit, and instead opted to increase it.

I'm at nearly 16k spirit now. It feels comfortable, maybe a bit higher than it needs to be. I would consider dropping it to maybe 14-15k, but probably no lower than that. Furthermore, looking at the planned 5.4 changes to innervate, I have a feeling I'll keep spirit high, and replace glyph of regrowth with glyph of innervate and feed my innervates to the hpriest.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
6795
According to his wowheroes, he has over 13k, maybe you do not know him that well?

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Zul%27jin/vorpster/

Anyway, there are always slight exceptions, and it is farm fun time for most of us now. But if you look that the top ranking Druids I think you will find very few go for lower than 14k.

http://proraiders.com/ranks/index.php?spec=Restoration_Druid

Nice name BTW! Though his last few fights were anything but the prodigy.


Kind of unnecessary dickish comments there. I raided with the guy for quite a while and have him on Real ID. Now than you mention it I do believe last I saw it was around 13k. The main reason I brought it up tho is because he gems pure int/mastery or int/spirit. You were saying anyone over top100 has " at least 15k spirit" and gems spirit/mastery.

How people want to gear is their own choice and dependent on lots of factors, comp, farm/progression, playstyle... But I will stand by my opinion that the strongest Druids tend to go for high spirit and adjust their playstyle to have a higher volume of casts.


Better attitude on this post I appreciate that. Very true. Me personally, I top charts rolling low spirit while maximizing my throughput. I smartly pre-emptively heal rather than just rejuv blanketing the entire raid ignorantly. Not saying that is entirely wrong in some situations it can work out, just a different style.

You can believe it if you want, just please don't state it as a fact that it's true like you did in your original post. It's something up for debate that a lot of people don't agree with. The #1 rank on your website is rocking 16k spirit at the second break point with very low mastery... the second US is at third breakpoint with 10k spirit with even lower mastery. You can't just blindly follow what the #1 or even some of them do.. take the information and consider whats best for yourself like you even said. Just again, don't come on here droppin dem knowledge like everythings concrete facts when it isn't.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
10000
I should probably also have mentioned that in most cases we have no rsham for MTT, although this was also true in my 10man.

There are a lot of variables in how much regen people require. The amount of incoming damage, its predictability, healing composition, fight length, etc.

I would venture a guess that, especially at this point in the expansion, Duality's raid takes little unnecessary damage (unless intentionally padding meters, I don't know how much they care if at all) and has the DPS to ensure shorter fights that are not taxing on healers or their mana.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11990
According to his wowheroes, he has over 13k, maybe you do not know him that well?

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/Zul%27jin/vorpster/

Anyway, there are always slight exceptions, and it is farm fun time for most of us now. But if you look that the top ranking Druids I think you will find very few go for lower than 14k.

http://proraiders.com/ranks/index.php?spec=Restoration_Druid

Nice name BTW! Though his last few fights were anything but the prodigy.


Kind of unnecessary dickish comments there. I raided with the guy for quite a while and have him on Real ID. Now than you mention it I do believe last I saw it was around 13k. The main reason I brought it up tho is because he gems pure int/mastery or int/spirit. You were saying anyone over top100 has " at least 15k spirit" and gems spirit/mastery.

How people want to gear is their own choice and dependent on lots of factors, comp, farm/progression, playstyle... But I will stand by my opinion that the strongest Druids tend to go for high spirit and adjust their playstyle to have a higher volume of casts.


Better attitude on this post I appreciate that. Very true. Me personally, I top charts rolling low spirit while maximizing my throughput. I smartly pre-emptively heal rather than just rejuv blanketing the entire raid ignorantly. Not saying that is entirely wrong in some situations it can work out, just a different style.

You can believe it if you want, just please don't state it as a fact that it's true like you did in your original post. It's something up for debate that a lot of people don't agree with. The #1 rank on your website is rocking 16k spirit at the second break point with very low mastery... the second US is at third breakpoint with 10k spirit with even lower mastery. You can't just blindly follow what the #1 or even some of them do.. take the information and consider whats best for yourself like you even said. Just again, don't come on here droppin dem knowledge like everythings concrete facts when it isn't.


Sorry for the attitude, but I think if you really stop and look at your post you are the one who brought it first with your sarcastic and passive aggressive response. The fact you were that far off just made it delicious.... :D

As for the rest, I don't really care to prove anything. People can go ahead and gear how they want, it was just a little advice. I spend quite a bit of time tracking other Druids I feel are top performers. I also spend quite a bit of time in forums and theorycrafting. So take that as you will. I am pretty confident in my gauging of the top 25H community "consensus" when it comes to gearing. I have no reason to try and mislead or lie to people.

As for the #1 rank, Owld from Method, he is in his balance PVP gear. In Resto he runs at ~3043, with max spirit>mastery. Sidenote: he also uses FoN, as do many Druids are doing while on farm post 5.3. Treants everywhere! Again, I think if you look further you will see most run 3043>sprirt>mastery with only slight variations in gemming. With the lowest (and outliers) being Druids like your buddy at 13K. There will always be exceptions, even at higher levels, and tons of Druids in more casual guilds do all kinds of things.

I respect your opinion, and of course I ultimately agree that not every case is the same, but honestly it feels like you are just a little defensive about the fact you were wrong about your buddy.
Edited by Fangthorn on 7/8/2013 8:30 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
6795
I respect your opinion, and of course I ultimately agree that not every case is the same, but honestly it feels like you are just a little defensive about the fact you were wrong about your buddy.


Wasn't really wrong, inaccurate sure but he definitely falls in the top100 category you were talking about and doesn't have nearly 15k spirit, and doesn't gem any spirit... with horridon trinket and the meta its just not necessary.

I would venture a guess that, especially at this point in the expansion, Duality's raid takes little unnecessary damage (unless intentionally padding meters, I don't know how much they care if at all) and has the DPS to ensure shorter fights that are not taxing on healers or their mana.


This is true but I raided with him up until we were 5H ( on a different character of mine ) before he joined Duality, and he never had obscenely large amounts of spirit.

Sorry for the attitude, but I think if you really stop and look at your post you are the one who brought it first with your sarcastic and passive aggressive response. The fact you were that far off just made it delicious.... :D


End off by saying sorry if i seemed a !%#!!%!# myself, I came on here just to provide tips ( like you ) but took things a little too personally when you were stating that "everyone in top100" gems pure spirit above 15k.. it's just not true.

Maybe next patch with the changes coming that playstyle will be the overwhelming resounding way to play, but right now, it isn't just concrete fact that you should " do this or you're bad" which is what you originally said in your post.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]