Holy pally logs for Lei Shen

90 Tauren Paladin
10395
I'm hoping some more experienced Holy pallys can peruse my logs and give me some tips for healing Lei Shen. My main is a Resto Druid but my friends guild is in need of a healer so I've been bringing my pally in to help them. I am admittedly a bit undergeared for this fight but nonetheless I'd like some help on what I can improve play style wise. Thanks.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2puedqx68u2j3yof/

Edit: Forgot to link logs. Probably should get some sleep lol.
Edited by Rägehoof on 6/30/2013 10:27 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8795
I'm looking just at attempt #10 which was your longest one...

1) LoD is your number 2 healing which is bad. You primarily want to spend your hp on EF and blanket the raid with them. Try not to use LoD unless there is a lot of raid damage that your other healers cant easily pick up.

2) your holy shock usage is very very low. You only used it 33 times in over a 10 min attempt. Make sure you are using it on cd.

3) try to utilize daybreak more. You are getting a decent amount of daybreak procs but it isnt healing much. I am assuming you are using the proc on a ranged that isnt stacked with anyone.

- that is really all i cant tell from your logs. # 1 & 2 are the big ones and why your healing is low. fix that and you should see a big increase.

for your gear/sec...

1) replace glyph of beacon of light for glyph of divinity
2) your spirit is a little low so i would replace your pure int gems with pure spirit. Even if you are comfortable with your spirit, getting some more will let you be more aggressive with your heals.

That is all i got for you. GL.
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90 Human Paladin
3420
Problem 1: Light of Disaster usage too high. Eternal Flame usage needs to go up more.

Problem 2: Glyph of Divine Plea - badbadbad, please never ever touch this glyph. And don't listen to that pally above, Glyph of Beacon of Light is fantastic for switching beacons without downtime between casts.

Problem 3: Low spirit, leading up to low Holy Radiance usage.

Problem 4: Divine Purpose. No top end pally ever touches this talent for progression, because Holy Avenger is way more potent in handling burst healing in conjunction with your other throughput cooldowns.

tl;dr
Blanket the raid with EF. Switch Beacons to the tank currently tanking. Swap GoDP for Glyph of Divinity. Use Holy Avenger.
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
I recently fired up my Pally for some ToT runs and I am also having some trouble with throughput on Lei Shen. I think it might mostly be a Spirit issue since I find myself throttling Holy Radiance due to mana issues.

Up to this point, I have been using HR/HS to build Holy Power, keeping PoM and PW:S up, and firing off LoD and Holy Prism when raid-wide damage hits.

For EF type healing, do you wait for 3 HP to cast it or blanket the raid using 1 HP? If I go HR/HS to 3HP then EF that is about an 8 second cycle time. So that is not even 4 people with EF up before it expires on the first person.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
If I go HR/HS to 3HP then EF that is about an 8 second cycle time


Pay attention to timers and you can be in CS'ing LS. Run out when there is 3-4 sec before thunderstruck. Helps build HoPo. I tend to do 2 HoPo EF's. Can get them spread around pretty quick that way.

Plenty of time to regen during intermissions so no reason not to go hard.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Damage and healing are lining up nicely. Slightly ahead on healing shows you are proactively healing.

1. LoD is high. EF is going to be stronger in the long run.
2. I disagree on Glyph on Divine Plea. It's useful at low spirit. It's not bad, just situational. If you don't "need" it, swap it to something else.
3. Pure int gems can be swapped to combo gems, either int/spirit or int/mastery. If you're feeling froggy you can go with int/crit (which is mathematically identical to int/mastery).
4. Your spirit isn't low. But it's not as high as it could be. But this is a comfort stat. I've seen pallies run as low as 8k and as high as 15k+. If you're feeling good with where you are, you can change out glyphs or reforge to mastery/crit.
5. DP gives better results over time. HA gives better results NOW. If your team is solid on burst healing, DP is a solid choice only because it will act as a mana conserver. HA will yield more power when you need it, however the delay in use degrades its overall efficiency.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
I recently fired up my Pally for some ToT runs and I am also having some trouble with throughput on Lei Shen. I think it might mostly be a Spirit issue since I find myself throttling Holy Radiance due to mana issues.

Up to this point, I have been using HR/HS to build Holy Power, keeping PoM and PW:S up, and firing off LoD and Holy Prism when raid-wide damage hits.

For EF type healing, do you wait for 3 HP to cast it or blanket the raid using 1 HP? If I go HR/HS to 3HP then EF that is about an 8 second cycle time. So that is not even 4 people with EF up before it expires on the first person.


3 HoPo to tank(s) and you, 1 HoPo to everyone else. If using DP, let the procs flow.
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
Thanks for the feedback. I will give a go.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8795
Ya, Pospospos isnt 100% right. glyph of divine plea can be good but it really depends on the fight. On progression i would recommend it because the healing reduction you get without can really screw you over at the wrong time. Also, as Deadsecsi said, HA is great for burst damage (mageara, normal jinrokh, and possible primordius and durumu), other than that DP is great for longevity to spam EFs on everyone. Lastly, Glyph of Beacon of the light can be good if used properly. If you just keep beacon on the tank taking damage it isnt worth it. if you are going to use it, you need to be tossing it around the raid.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Honestly if you do lei shen right there won't be anything to really heal until phase3, same applies to heroic. We pretty much 2-3heal phase 1.
Edited by Requital on 7/1/2013 11:51 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
20415


Problem 4: Divine Purpose. No top end pally ever touches this talent for progression, because Holy Avenger is way more potent in handling burst healing in conjunction with your other throughput cooldowns.


Disagree.

I only use HA if I can stand still for extremely heavy burst for 20 seconds with the rest of the fight being a joke to heal, which is pretty much Mageara and nothing else. In order to make HA worthwhile, you have to expend a huge amount of mana while the cooldown is running. DP is also stronger for movement situations, which is where paladins need the most help right now - we do very well in AoE turret situations even without cooldowns running.

I didn't even use HA for Ra-den, because the burst phase lasts a long period of time.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10395
Thanks for the help guys. I will for sure start using EF more instead of LoD. Just to be clear we are pretty spread out until after the first intermission so I haven't been using HR much in phase 1 because it won't hit more than a couple people. Should I still be using it anyway just for the HoPo?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Thanks for the help guys. I will for sure start using EF more instead of LoD. Just to be clear we are pretty spread out until after the first intermission so I haven't been using HR much in phase 1 because it won't hit more than a couple people. Should I still be using it anyway just for the HoPo?


Here's a positioning trick I use with HR.

a) Stay near the majority of the casters.

b) Target the Tank or yourself for HR.

If you target the tank, he & the melees will get healed. If you target yourself, the casters near you will get healed.

As long as you are hitting at least 3 people HR is as mana efficient as DL, AND it generates a HoPo, AND it procs a Daybreak.

The follow-on Daybreak/HS sets you up for a 2 HoPo EF/LoD.

But this assumes that actual raid damage is coming in. When damage is light or it's isolated (1-2 people only), you'll want to stick to HL/HS on select targets and use Beacon Xfers to cover others.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10395
I'm thinking about trying a crit build. Eloderung, I've noticed you use the glyph of illumination. Is there a certain amount of crit you need to have before that becomes a viable glyph? I read that at spirit levels above 7k it's a loss in regen
Edited by Rägehoof on 7/1/2013 11:40 AM PDT
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
keeping PoM and PW:S up


Urp! This is what happens when one plays too many healer classes. ;( I meant to say Sacred Shield/ Beacon of Light.

I'll got respec now to Eternal Flame.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
I'm thinking about trying a crit build. Eloderung, I've noticed you use the glyph of illumination. Is there a certain amount of crit you need to have before that becomes a viable glyph? I read that at spirit levels above 7k it's a loss in regen


Mathematically Crit & Mastery are near identical. Crit provides real healing, Mastery provides overheal protections. In a perfect world, you'd never need Mastery because you heals would always land for full (no one sniping). In a theoretical world, you want the two balanced based on playstyle. If you overheal a lot, go with a mastery heavy "tilt." If you're more reactive to damage, lean towards crit.

As for spirit, it's a comfort stat. There is a minimum amount you need, an amount you'll be comfortable with, and an amount that will leave you full mana at the end of every fight.

I'm not mana efficient by any stretch, and I aim for about 10k pre flask. Based on fight/content I'll decide which flask to use. The bare minimum will be enough to make HS Mana neutral, which is 10k~ every 6 seconds. I want to say that happens at about 8k spirit total (including flask). After that, depending on how efficient you are, and how well people stay out of stupid, sets your comfort zone. By swapping to defensive playing (HS/HL + EF spamming), you'll regen mana. Toss in Insight, and it can raise relatively quickly. The more spirit, the faster you get back to the "big heals" and the longer you can hold out until your next mana cooldown (trinket, plea, potion, even LoH if you have to).
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100 Draenei Paladin
20415
I'm thinking about trying a crit build. Eloderung, I've noticed you use the glyph of illumination. Is there a certain amount of crit you need to have before that becomes a viable glyph? I read that at spirit levels above 7k it's a loss in regen


I just did the math with my own empirical situations. It's more regen for me with the stats as you see them.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12580
After looking at your logs--at the longest attempt--there are some things that you can fix.

Some people have already said the main one, which is more EF, less LoD.

The rest--Holy Radiance is almost always going to be preferable to DL casting, just because it gives HoPo and a Daybreak proc. Even if there is no healing needed at the time, HR = Daybreak stacking.

Obviously, you still use DL when needed, but the majority of the time you'll be using HR over DL. And since it procs mastery shields, you're still throwing absorbs on the raid even when they don't need direct healing.

Aside from that-- Holy Avenger vs Divine Purpose is a personal choice. If DP procs well for you, there's no issues with using it. I prefer HA because I can go upwards of five minutes without a single DP proc.

Something I noticed no one else commented on:

Use your cooldowns.
They are your friends.

Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor, and Guardian of Ancient Kings are meant to be used and you never used a single one of them. Avenging Wrath is a 20% boost to your healing. Divine Favor increases your haste and crit by 20%. Guardian copies 5 of your heals and doubles them.

You are severely gimping your healing by not using the cds you have.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10395
After looking at your logs--at the longest attempt--there are some things that you can fix.

Some people have already said the main one, which is more EF, less LoD.

The rest--Holy Radiance is almost always going to be preferable to DL casting, just because it gives HoPo and a Daybreak proc. Even if there is no healing needed at the time, HR = Daybreak stacking.

Obviously, you still use DL when needed, but the majority of the time you'll be using HR over DL. And since it procs mastery shields, you're still throwing absorbs on the raid even when they don't need direct healing.

Aside from that-- Holy Avenger vs Divine Purpose is a personal choice. If DP procs well for you, there's no issues with using it. I prefer HA because I can go upwards of five minutes without a single DP proc.

Something I noticed no one else commented on:

Use your cooldowns.
They are your friends.

Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor, and Guardian of Ancient Kings are meant to be used and you never used a single one of them. Avenging Wrath is a 20% boost to your healing. Divine Favor increases your haste and crit by 20%. Guardian copies 5 of your heals and doubles them.

You are severely gimping your healing by not using the cds you have.


If you looked at the longest attempt only I believe I died early which is why I hadn't used any cooldowns and such. However I do still need to get used to using them more often, thanks for the advice.
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