Misses...

90 Goblin Hunter
7715
I'd still like some examples of excessive rng.


When people lose, apparently that is "excessive".
91 Goblin Death Knight
12985
I don't think you can compare a 3 hour baseball game to a 4 min fights with random opponents each time

The time duration is meaningless - it's the discreet events that matter. A player will typically get 3-5 plate appearances per game, which is quite comparable to the number of attacks a pet gets in a battle. If baseball games had 30 seconds timers for plate appearances, they'd only last a few minutes too.
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
UE
22885
07/02/2013 01:51 PMPosted by Triggers
I'd still like some examples of excessive rng.


When people lose, apparently that is "excessive".
Well I've been waiting for someone to say that their fish got devoured by birds or their critters got eaten by beasts. I don't consider a bad match up by teams as a rng loss. There is strategy in putting together teams that do well against the meta and your battlegroup.

A rng loss is when two teams who have a close to equal chance of winning have a game decided by a skill missing or critting at any point in the match that changed the outcome. I contend that doesn't happen all that often.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
A rng loss is when two teams who have a close to equal chance of winning have a game decided by a skill missing or critting at any point in the match that changed the outcome. I contend that doesn't happen all that often.


And even in those cases it will balance out over time. People carrying the losses with them is the real problem. Biases are hard for game developers to tune around.
95 Human Warlock
16335
hey guise, my 95% hit chance attacked missed 3 times in a row wtf blizz your game broke QQ

/sarcasmatronoff
100 Human Warlock
16995
Almost everyone seems to be discussing exactly how bad it is... if it's as terrible as some of us think, or is slightly annoying at worst... my question is, when is it good? If it's purely a bad thing with no redeeming value, and we're just discussing HOW bad it is... why is it a discussion?

It's like there's a piece of wood lodged in our eye, and we're discussing if it's just an annoying splinter that we can barely feel, or if it's an agonizing wound that's obviously going to cause blindness... well who cares, just get the thing out of our eye! Who's going to miss it?

If it wouldn't matter to some people at worst, and take pet battling from unplayably broken to being fun again for other people at best... it seems like just a painfully obvious fix to make.


If I may I'd like to address a few of these points, one at a time.

When is it good? It's good when it gives a new guy an outside chance to get lucky an win. Otherwise all we have are battles that are decided whenever we see what comp we're up against. The chance for a lucky miss or crit is an equalizer. We can debate the relative merits of an equalizer, but we cannot deny that RNG is one. So we're not all discussion HOW bad it is. Personally I don't think it's a bad thing at all. It's potentially frustrating at worst.
Where obsession meets frustration you have anger.

Who's going to miss it? The person who is trying to get started in pet battles. Why? Because they will have ZERO chance to win in the beginning, and will most likely stop trying.

Last thing. Is Pet Battling "Unplayably Broken"? If that's true there would be NO battles being fought today. but there are. :)
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11485
I just missed a 95% hit chance ability 6 times in a row, while the enemy player repeatedly hit me with a 50% chance ability.

Yeah it was totally his team set up, not the fact he got lucky as hell, that caused him to win..


I have witnessed the same behavior at the start of 5.3, and it's frustrating! An attack with 95% hit chance feels like 50%; and an attack with 60% hit chance feels like 20%. My boyfriend, who just started pet battles at 5.3, also feels that the indicated hit chance is much lower than said. I hope this is fixed ASAP. There is definitely something wrong with the hit chance system and I'm glad a lot of people's posts here proves that my boyfriend and I aren't the only ones with insane amounts of bad luck.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
07/02/2013 04:47 PMPosted by Vivianian
There is definitely something wrong with the hit chance system


Weird how all gathered data says otherwise. The only ones who think is broke are the ones who go off of feel or seems like instead of actual gathered facts.
90 Orc Death Knight
12665
One miss, when it determines a fight, which, honestly, many of my battles come down to, is excessive... strings of misses, which happen often, that determine a pet battle, are even more excessive... when RNG wins or loses a battle, why do it?

I've stopped pet battling. When I have down time, I now just alt-tab or watch TV. I was, under the old system, obsessed. It's honestly gone from addictive to not worth doing.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
07/02/2013 05:24 PMPosted by Axegor
many of my battles come down to,


Then it will all even out even faster seeing you have it happen often.

strings of misses, which happen often, that determine a pet battle, are even more excessive


Proof? More proof than you remember that one fight type proof as well. And while you are it start tracking wins in which you have multiple misses in a row because I assure they do happen.

07/02/2013 05:24 PMPosted by Axegor
when RNG wins or loses a battle, why do it?


Why do you do it? With as few battles as you have invested in it you really aren't losing much to move on and find something you enjoy more.

07/02/2013 05:24 PMPosted by Axegor
I was, under the old system, obsessed.


What old system?! The one that had about 10% more chance to miss base than we do now? That system? Really?
90 Orc Death Knight
12665
There is no "evening out", it's as empty to "win" with RNG as it is to "lose" to RNG.

Proof of strings of misses? Statistics and math. They happen, and not terribly rarely, with 25% miss chance, which is common.

Nearly 5,000 pet battle wins... most people I talk to don't even have a level 25 pet.

The old system was bad, admittedly. Just not nearly so bad as this one.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
There is no "evening out", it's as empty to "win" with RNG as it is to "lose" to RNG.


There is most certainly an evening out over enough time. That is were you problem starts. Stop looking at 'that' battle and look across all battles.

Proof of strings of misses? Statistics and math. They happen, and not terribly rarely, with 25% miss chance, which is common.


You seem to have 0 concept of stats, how to gather them or how to use them. Run the numbers really keep track. You will see your 95%ers hitting really close to 95%, 90s...you get the idea.

The old system was bad, admittedly. Just not nearly so bad as this one.


In what way do you think the old system was better? This system seems far more efficient and easy to use and understand than the old system.

Nearly 5,000 pet battle wins... most people I talk to don't even have a level 25 pet.


Not sure what you are aiming at here, is that supposed to be an insult or am I missing something?

And just so you know I am well over that actually 5000 as I test accuracy numbers and level pets constantly.
100 Draenei Shaman
23200
07/02/2013 12:34 PMPosted by Hearus
I don't think you can compare a 3 hour baseball game to a 4 min fights with random opponents each time


you can't really compare it to chess either but here we are. The only problem with rng is that people need to have a reason why the lost and never give it any credit for a win. Win = I AM BEST, loss = STUPID RNG.


And this is the 2nd sentence in the OP's message
At least 75% of my pet battles are won or lost on misses, and it ruins the battle either way.


I told you the same thing several times, but you do not want to hear us.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
I told you the same thing several times, but you do not want to hear us.


No I can see it just fine. You are just wrong.

Are you also agreeing with the op that the old system is better?
Edited by Hearus on 7/2/2013 6:39 PM PDT
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
UE
22885
And this is the 2nd sentence in the OP's message
At least 75% of my pet battles are won or lost on misses, and it ruins the battle either way.

I told you the same thing several times, but you do not want to hear us.
And that statement is completely wrong. I've asked for some examples a few times now. I've yet to see any people showing how their team missed or crit to win or a lose a battle that should have gone the other way. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it is just no wear near 75%, it's not even near 7.5%.

Rarely is a team match up so equal that one move during the fight swung the battle. If a person has a superior team and loses because they made mistakes and rng happened at the end, that's not a rng loss, that's a poor play loss.

Your team being in a crappy match up for it isn't a rng loss. It's your poor preparation for your meta and battlegroup. Build a team that has a chance to win against any match up and not one that stomps on some but are countered easily by others.

One miss, when it determines a fight, which, honestly, many of my battles come down to, is excessive... strings of misses, which happen often, that determine a pet battle, are even more excessive... when RNG wins or loses a battle, why do it?
I find it incredibly hard to believe that many of your battles in which your team is played perfectly against the match up is coming down to a string of misses, unless you are running skills that have a high chance to miss(85% or lower). If that's the case pick pets with a higher hit chance.
80 Night Elf Priest
7060
I just want to own my choices, own my strategy, own the outcome based upon mine and my opponent's choices.

Can we take this RNG idea/implementation and put it in to a different context. Street Fighter. Do any of you remember that game? Let's put RNG in that game for a minute... I am battling another opponent and move the joystick and push the buttons exactly how I should to produce a kick/hit/attack.. but ooops, RNG... whiff, the hit never connects... but not just once, I whiff the next three attacks and eventually, if not quickly, lose to either the computer opponent or a human opponent.

As wildly popular as that game was... I highly doubt it would have made it past the first year of production with RNG.

Put RNG in any 1-on-1 game and see what you get. Smash Brothers Melee, COD, Mortal Combat, Narato... and the list is practically endless. These games wouldn't have seen much success if a player's choices weren't completely their's.

In my opinion, RNG ruins any 1-on-1 match. It doesn't make it more exciting, more enjoyable, more anything, except frustrating. I want to know that my choices matter and have consequences beyond a chance that what I want to do next won't happen at all.

With RNG, you take complete control and consequences out of the players hand and place it in a random computer generated outcome. No thanks! I want to own my choices, I want to know that my strategy has merit and will win the game or lose the game based solely on my own choices.

I actually learn more about my team, my choices, my strategy when there is no RNG.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Can we take this RNG idea/implementation and put it in to a different context. Street Fighter. Do any of you remember that game? Let's put RNG in that game for a minute... I am battling another opponent and move the joystick and push the buttons exactly how I should to produce a kick/hit/attack.. but ooops, RNG... whiff, the hit never connects... but not just once, I whiff the next three attacks and eventually, if not quickly, lose to either the computer opponent or a human opponent.


Another poor analogy. Your pets don't move for defense and blocking doesn't rely on reaction time.

07/03/2013 04:54 AMPosted by Meliahr
I just want to own my choices, own my strategy, own the outcome based upon mine and my opponent's choices.


You get that.

Put RNG in any 1-on-1 game and see what you get. Smash Brothers Melee, COD, Mortal Combat, Narato... and the list is practically endless. These games wouldn't have seen much success if a player's choices weren't completely their's.


You are looking for something that pet battles just is not.

In my opinion, RNG ruins any 1-on-1 match. It doesn't make it more exciting, more enjoyable, more anything, except frustrating. I want to know that my choices matter and have consequences beyond a chance that what I want to do next won't happen at all.


Choices do matter. Risk vs reward is baked into the powers. If it hits hard, it has more chance to miss.

I actually learn more about my team, my choices, my strategy when there is no RNG.


You know this how?
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
UE
22885
I just want to own my choices, own my strategy, own the outcome based upon mine and my opponent's choices.
Well you already have that. Very few of your matches will be decided solely by rng.
100 Human Warrior
10560
07/03/2013 06:31 AMPosted by Snow
I just want to own my choices, own my strategy, own the outcome based upon mine and my opponent's choices.
Well you already have that. Very few of your matches will be decided solely by rng.


I don't want any of my choices decided by RNG, let alone a match! If I choose to use an ability, I want that ability to land, unless my opponent outsmarts me and uses a mitigating ability. This makes for more accurate battle tactics and outcomes.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
07/03/2013 06:47 AMPosted by Meldron
I don't want any of my choices decided by RNG, let alone a match!


Get a job at blizzard and change their mind.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9425567/
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