Misses...

100 Human Warlock
15540
We keep saying that there should be no RNG in these pet battles. We keep using chess to explain it, like we're all Bobby Fischer.

Well, there's RNG in WoW. That's how it is. Why should a sub game be any different?

Personally I don't think that pet battles are anything like chess. And thank goodness. Good chess players know the game's outcome after only a few moves. Where's the fun in that? Without RNG, pet battles are decided as soon as the Q pops (assuming skilled and knowledgeable players).

Forget chess. Pet battles are more like poker. The best players still have a chance to get a bad draw.
90 Human Warrior
0
Forget chess. Pet battles are more like poker. The best players still have a chance to get a bad draw.


So, Pet Battles is a game of chance and basically... gambling? Why don't we just flip a coin at the beginning of the battles and save everyone the hassle of a long drawn out fight that is just chance anyway?
100 Blood Elf Rogue
13120
I've noticed a difference in the amount of times my pets miss as well recently. I guess in the end it just comes down to plain old bad luck.

I can be placed in front of an opponent that has the perfect team for my pets to absolutely demolish and I will lose from misses, dodges etc., but win when I'm facing a team that should rip my face off. It's all luck.

Just remember, No one knows who you are so don't ever be embarrassed to lose. Just move on to the next battle. =)
100 Human Warlock
15540
07/03/2013 07:39 AMPosted by Meldron
Forget chess. Pet battles are more like poker. The best players still have a chance to get a bad draw.


So, Pet Battles is a game of chance and basically... gambling? Why don't we just flip a coin at the beginning of the battles and save everyone the hassle of a long drawn out fight that is just chance anyway?


Ok. Fair point. My comparison to poker is not 100% accurate. But do you think that the comparison to chess is?

I suppose what I'm getting at is the last part of my previous post. You can be skilled and knowledgeable in poker but at the end of the day there is still an element of chance.
90 Human Warrior
0
Actually, I would liken Pet Battles to Stratego, more than chess.

In Stratego you make choices setting up your game pieces (unlike chess) and then make choices throughout the game that will determine the outcome. There is no RNG but both players have plenty of opportunity to win based upon decisions made before the battle and then during.

If you are not familiar with the game, here is a link to the Wikipedia.com article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego
100 Human Warlock
15540
07/03/2013 07:55 AMPosted by Zebutan
. Where's the fun in that? Without RNG, pet battles are decided as soon as the Q pops (assuming skilled and knowledgeable players).


I keep hearing this and I just don't get it. can you tell me how you think a pet battle would be decided as soon as the Q pops if there was 0 chance to miss or dodge


No I cannot. I'm not pretending to be an expert. I never have. I just don't think that the chance to miss is as bad as some others do. And I certainly don't think it should be removed.

It's only my opinion and as such it's no more valid than anyone else's.
90 Goblin Death Knight
12985
If you are not familiar with the game, here is a link to the Wikipedia.com article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego


I'm very familiar with Stratego, and it's an even worse comparison than chess. Why? Because it relies on fog-of-war to randomize the game instead of dice. When setting up the board there are a number of equally valid starting locations for most of the pieces, and the final decision on where to place them is arbitrarily made by your brain. Since your opponent can't see your thoughts or your decisions, from his perspective it's no different than if you were rolling dice. There's strategy in the game, but there is also luck.
90 Human Warrior
0
07/03/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Fink
If you are not familiar with the game, here is a link to the Wikipedia.com article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego


I'm very familiar with Stratego, and it's an even worse comparison than chess. Why? Because it relies on fog-of-war to randomize the game instead of dice. When setting up the board there are a number of equally valid starting locations for most of the pieces, and the final decision on where to place them is arbitrarily made by your brain. Since your opponent can't see your thoughts or your decisions, from his perspective it's no different than if you were rolling dice. There's strategy in the game, but there is also luck.


I don't think there is a perfect comparison of Pet Battles to a board game, or any other game for that matter. But again, what we don't have in any other game either is RNG. The potential that your decision before or during has a chance of not being activated/executed. While it works in boss fights, and some in PvP, it clearly stands out as a frustrating element in Pet Battles that should be removed (IMO).
100 Human Paladin
21680
07/03/2013 07:05 AMPosted by Darmand
Without RNG, pet battles are decided as soon as the Q pops (assuming skilled and knowledgeable players).


No, not really. It's not even a matter of opinion. Both players select their starting pet. When the face each other multiple times, you will find that it's rarely the same match up, unless it's a minefield or lightning storm team. Players will adjust their strategy as they continue to play against the same opponent. The fact of the matter is you cannot reliably predict what your opponent will do if they're smart. If abilities hit 100% of the time, you will only be able to predict the outcome if one team hard counters the other.

The current system is broken. It's better than the base chance to dodge attacks, but it's still disappointing so many people support spammable abilities missing for no reason what so ever. Sometimes your only chance at winning is if you don't miss. It is very satisfying to see your strategy work out and down right infuriating to watch RNG screw you over against someone who plays so poorly.

Misses are the least of the problems though. I think high damaging attacks that have a 25% or 50% to make your opponent lose their turn and sometimes the next turn to be even worse.
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
UE
22095
But again, what we don't have in any other game either is RNG.
What? Any game involving dice or cards have rng in them. I certainly understand why people keep bring up chess because it has no rng in it, most other games do though.
90 Goblin Death Knight
12985
07/03/2013 09:17 AMPosted by Meldron
But again, what we don't have in any other game either is RNG.


You are wrong. Again. Stratego is entirely dependent on a random element. It's just that in this case, the random element is not a computer function or a pair of dice. Instead it is the human brain. The whole point is to place your pieces in a way that cannot be predicted in advance, and the results are not revealed until the appropriate action. Just because we do not normally think of our brains as random number generators does not mean that they are not perfectly capable of performing that role.
90 Human Warrior
0
07/03/2013 09:52 AMPosted by Snow
But again, what we don't have in any other game either is RNG.
What? Any game involving dice or cards have rng in them. I certainly understand why people keep bring up chess because it has no rng in it, most other games do though.


True, any dice game would certainly be RNG.

So, that's what Pet Battles have boiled down to... dice. Flip a coin. But don't choose abilities, cause that won't really matter in the end.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
But don't choose abilities, cause that won't really matter in the end.


Over exaggeration does not help make a point. Or being obtuse, whichever it may be what you stated is clearly not true.

And for people once again

In a turn-based game, randomness can be a lot of fun if handled correctly. Without a little randomness, the outcome of a match could be predicted to a high degree of certainty before the first swing, and that’s no fun.


source

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9425567/
Edited by Hearus on 7/3/2013 12:29 PM PDT
90 Human Warrior
0
07/03/2013 10:14 AMPosted by Fink
But again, what we don't have in any other game either is RNG.


You are wrong. Again. Stratego is entirely dependent on a random element. It's just that in this case, the random element is not a computer function or a pair of dice. Instead it is the human brain. The whole point is to place your pieces in a way that cannot be predicted in advance, and the results are not revealed until the appropriate action. Just because we do not normally think of our brains as random number generators does not mean that they are not perfectly capable of performing that role.


I disagree here about Stratego. There are no dice, or randomly generated outcomes. It is all about placement to begin with and movement and choices during.

But maybe we are thinking about RNG differently as it pertains to Stratego. RNG during a game of Stratego, to me, would be if I use a Miner to attack what I suspect (or know) to be a bomb, but instead of winning that confrontation, I lose due to that piece changing at the last second to something other than what it was when I chose to attack. That's RNG to me. Otherwise, Miner attacking a bomb, always wins! There is no RNG to that. Just like a Major always beating a higher numbered piece (i.e. Scout). There is no element of "maybe I can't beat a Scout because suddenly his numeric value is a 1 instead of being an 8 like most times. No, just like in Rock/Paper/Scissors, each element beats the other element every time if that confrontation occurs.

That's why I liken Pet Battles to what I like about Stratego. As long as I place my pieces (choose my pet team), and play according to the abilities of each piece as I get more information about my opponent's set up (choose pet abilities), then I have just as much of a chance to win based upon my choices before and during as my opponent. There is no, "ah, but the game decided to throw you a total curve ball and not allow your pet's ability to hit this time, or the next time, or the next time, just cuz"!

That's how I see it. That's how I want it to be.
90 Human Warrior
0
And if it is a dice game (RNG), then remove abilities and make it more like Risk in its execution. You may win if your dice roll is high enough, but because of your opponent's pet level, gear, whatever, you only get 2 dice to his 3.

And if its a card game, then shuffle the deck, deal out the cards, and let's get to gambling with our pets!

But if its a one-on-one match of strategy, wits, and abilities, let's focus on that and remove the RNG. Totally my opinion... for my enjoyment. Other's clearly have different opinions and that's fine. I don't battle pets any longer due to this very issue, but that's not to say others don't still enjoy it.
100 Human Warlock
15540
Let's put the miss chances and their effect on wins and losses in perspective. Now this is a SMALL sample size and I did not count misses that happened during multiple per round attacks, like Swarm, etc.

My 10 wins.

10 wins and 10 losses ( including two butt whuppins at the hands of a guildie via randoms)

I missed a total of 14 times in 20 games.

My opponents missed a total of 11 times in 20 games.

That's raw data and by no means conclusive, but at first glance it'd be hard for things to even out more than they did.
93 Gnome Death Knight
10320
Randomness evening out in the long run is beside the point.
90 Goblin Death Knight
12985
07/03/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Meldron
But maybe we are thinking about RNG differently as it pertains to Stratego.

Yes we are. The fog-of-war element to the game, which does not exist in pet battles, introduces a random element to the game without the need for dice. There is no equivalent to this in pet battles, so making comparisons to a hypothetical pet battle system with 100% accuracy does not work.
90 Blood Elf Priest
BnB
14295
Randomness evening out in the long run is beside the point.


Why?
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