BM Hunter Pet damage!?!

90 Goblin Rogue
10215
Ok so ive been driving myself mad trying to figure this out.

i just recently began playing a hunter in pvp (love it) and originally i was all about my spirit beast "ban'thalos" but last night in 2s i changed to a spider i picked up from Deathknell (the BA black n red widow) i decided to try him out purely for the web root, however to my surprise my dps had increased drastically.

this puzzles me for 2 reasons. 1 i gain about 10% mastery from spirit beast mastery buff, which as BM is an all around pet dmg increase, and 2 everyone everywhere says all ferocity pets deal the same damage and have the same stats..

so today when i logged on i let ban'thalos loose on target dummies for about 10min, then did the same with my widow.. the results were

ban'thalos = 6,778 dps
black widow =11,671 dps

take note this is pure auto attack, no kill command, no buffs, rabid is not on auto. this is pure pet doing its own thing damage

so seeing this i go "wow, ok settled" then i started to dig around to see if i could find a spider that does that dmg but comes with something else handy, like a shale spider with their motw buff.. so i fly over to jade forrest and snag one of these ugly mofos..

i returned to the dummies and to my dismay.. after approx 10min of auto attacks he averaged 6,992 dps

..

now im stumped, i tested all of the pets in my stable and got the following

core hound from shadowmoon valley = 11,106 dps
brown quillen from townlong steppes = 11,891 dps

all of my pets are specced into ferocity and all have rabid turned off of auto attack

can anyone explain this to me? and/or reccomend a pet with a balance of the higher pet dmg with a nice buff? or is the buff what makes them deal less dmg?

and plz dont comment and go on about "they deal same dmg ur a nub kill urself" if u dont believe what im saying here go spend a half hour or so testing on dummies then we'll talk...

any help will be appreciated, thx :)
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Rng? Not sure how a pet with no buff could beat a pet with a buff by that large a margin.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13515
Could you post on your hunter? there are a few things that I can check to see if there is a factor, such as a few trinkets, and pet spec. If your pet is in tenacity, it will see a big dps drop due to missing a few strong dps abilities (rabid is a big dps ability, although you werent testing it). Another thing is spiked collar (10% bonus damage to basic atacks, 10% bonus atack speed, 10% bonus crit chance). Then theres thunder clap (tenacity aoe ability, costs 20 focus on a 10 sec cd, will be used before a basic atack, does less damage by a lot then a basic attack.)

Banthalos might be a pet with the basic atack bug (some models of pets will forget how to use their basic attacks on bosses with big hit boxes/weird target boxes.

And some pet models are big enough that shrine target dummies can show misleading info when you hit big red, causing your pet to get partly in the wall behind said dummies, and then partly in the ground, able to run around but out of line of sight of anything in regards to KC and their basic attack (bite/claw/smack, which if tallented in blink strikes has a 30 yard range and counts as a ranged atack even if your close enough auto atacks ignore line of sight, and their untalented basic attacks have a 5 yard range making them vurnerable to the bug still in some situations, only fix is dismissing, geting out of combat, and resumoning.)

then theres a matter of go for the throat procs, and crit chance rng. (on auto shot crits your pet gains 15 focus, and on arcane shot hits, there is a 15% chance to give the pets next 2 basic atacks 100% crit chance, which stacks if lucky.)

Chances are, your spirit beast was in tenacity, or you were using target dummies that big modeled pets glitch out on
Edited by Eurugan on 6/27/2013 7:40 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Rogue
10215
none of my pets are in tenacity, they are all ferocity .. and i left them run for longer periods of times to eliminate the rng factor.. as over a 10min period rng tends to even out..

ban'thalos and the spider are both pretty small.. the shale spider is even smaller so the big thing shouldnt be a factor.. however my core hound is much larger and he pulled the 11k+ as well..

im not familiar with taking in game video but ill see if i can get it going and post a video showing my talent tree's as well as running the test on dummy.. i'll also move to the single dummy in org for further debunking..
Edited by Vickôden on 6/27/2013 8:15 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Hunter
12340
Were you autoshotting or attacking at all?

I suppose the real test would be to be double sure your pets are all in ferocity, go to org (where I think the dummies aren't quite so bugged as the ones at the shrine) and just hit "pet attack". Do not attack the dummy yourself so no trinkets proc, no special abilities, etc. That would tell you if there is some bug where one kind of pet does more dps. Do it a few times for each pet to adjust for rng.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
18290
Make sure all pets have the same abilities.
Check your buffs.
Make sure no one else is hitting the same target dummy.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13515
By post on your hunter, i mean go up to the top of the page, where it shows your current charecter, click on the arrow, and select either show all charecters, and/or select your hunter, and then post on him. We can look at your hunters armory, and then check out your pets specs. This will give us some more info, and will help us confirm that your pets are all in ferocity.

ANd the pet size issue isnt limited to pets that look big, some pet models have buggs (hint, my blue model portent has the basic atack bug, red model doesnt, my fox pet has the basic atack bug, but wolf doesn't). Its just poping BW can phase your pet into get ground (as your pet nearly doubles in size), and your bets basic atacks can also bug out.

Also, check to see if basic atacks are turned on for banthalos, and make sure its actualy spending its focus. Get basic atack (bite, claw, smack) on your pets action bar and make sure its actualy using it. This is a known bug that bliz claimed to have fixed that still happens. Rabid is a major cd, just make sure it is set the same for all pets. There is NO diference between banthalos and another spirit beast or any other pet, buffs aside, and mastery does not make that big of a difference.
Edited by Eurugan on 6/27/2013 8:53 AM PDT
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no i was not auto shotting at all.. everything is on ferocity.. i recorded a video but for the life of me i cant figure out how to convert it away from this wvd format..

i changed the main character on my profile to the hunter so feel free to take a look
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100 Pandaren Hunter
12340
Just did a quick test, and yes, certain pets are bugged on the shrine dummies. They are "out of line of sight" and wont autocast bite/claw, etc and if you try to manually cast it you're LOS'd.

I'm BM and geared for PVE/raiding. I was using blink strikes and did NOT attack the dummy myself, just sent pet in with pet attack. Cower, Dash, growl turned off. Only bite, buffs, and rabid on autocast. I did NOT use focus fire (let the pet keep it's frenzy stacks).

Obviously if I was attacking the target myself that would affect my pet's focus regen and yield higher dps (attacks hit for 50% more damage if above 50 focus). But I did not want to add any unnecessary rng.

First test on Karoma spirit beast (mastery buff i.e. extra pet damage) yielded 25,278 dps. Must have been real lucky with crits or didn't notice I still had some buffs still going because nothing ever came that close again. Second test on Karoma yielded 19,357 dps.

Brought out Solix (spider, no buff, just web) and averaged 17061. However that is when I noticed the dummy bug. At first his dps was pitiful, then I noticed he was sitting at full focus and bite was not being cast. Moved to dummies in org in the hunter hall and had no problem after that.

Quillen did 18052 (crit buff)

My guess is that you're having the dummy bug affect your pet's dps (they aren't biting/clawing) and in the actual pvp situation that web helps your spider's uptime on the target considerably and might have made a difference. Or it could be totally random--maybe in one bg people were just much better about cc'ing your pet (and thus reducing your damage) than another.
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