Sad State of R. Shaman: Mechanics Oriented P2

90 Night Elf Death Knight
12320
Welcome everyone to Part Two of Restoration Shaman Healing Discussion Topics! As the original Thread has nearly maxed out I felt it prudent to post a new thread for discussion.

I will reiterate that I am not a max level Restoration Shaman nor do I do a large amount of Raiding. I do however play on PTR with a R. Shaman periodically, and I made the first thread because I felt that Restoration Shamans were getting beat with an ugly stick so hard the stick was starting to turn ugly.

World of Warcraft is, at the end of the day, a video game. It should be fun to play, not painful, not frustrating, fun. Not just fun for people who like "high skill level, hard to work" type of play. Fun, FOR EVERYONE. Somewhere that seems to have been forgotten for Shaman Healing.

Suitable Links (or non suitable, I felt they were relevant to the discussion.)

Mastery explanation / resource for people who want hard numbers
http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=2965

Raidbots 25H showing all parses from last 60 days
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

Raidbots 10N showing all parses from last 60 days (seriously, this ones sad)
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/10N/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

Wargraphs (showing Elemental at top, Restoration at bottom, this link is controversial however)
http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/statspve-classesrepartition-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html

MMO Champion, good data mining TAKE THESE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/

World of Logs (If you look carefully through all of them you see certain classes have a big advantage over others in some fights, but there is not one for Shamans)
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Throne_of_Thunder/hps/


Last Thread
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9245745244

PTR Thread
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9344304596


I'd like to point out for naysayers that this late in the expansion re-rolling isn't really a lot of fun, and is just a time suck to get up to max level and gear out a new character. Is it doable? Yes, but it's not fun for the majority of the player base. Can YOU do it? I'm sure you can, please, think of everyone else though. I would also like to bring up the issue of a new Raid Boss in 5.4, Ordos. According to data mined information, he will only be accessible for those with the 5.4 Legendary Cloak. If this change goes live, re-rolling will become extremely painful, as in order to even do this boss you'd need to redo everything. Short of massive nerfs on all the Legendary Quest line requirements, I don't see this grind being a lot of fun.

Link here - http://ptr.wowdb.com/npcs/72057-ordos

Overall key points I'd like to keep in mind for anyone reading. Shaman Healing IS possible, while it does suck hard and is absolutely no fun at all, it IS somewhat possible. I'm sure if you disagree you won't have the nerve to DL the PTR and check out Shaman Healing though, so please refrain from saying "You don't know how to play the class because all healing specs are fun". That is clearly not the topic here and it's almost a known fact now, Shaman Healing could use a bit more fun.

Key weakness currently is Movement and Spread. Stacked healing is doing okay, provided everyone stands in one place and takes the healing. In some cases it almost seems like it would be more useful for shamans to have a friendly Earthgrab Totem that roots players inside Healing Rain/HST/HTT so they take the heals.

It is also a point of contention that Shamans either need buffed or other healers need nerfed. I assume this is an idiot talking, because if Restoration Shaman are so bad that every other healer class needs nerfed, why not just nerf the Restoration Shamans? The idea that other classes need nerfed to make Shamans relevant is just stupid. It's like the band aid fixes aren't holding up so they're wrapping everyone else in gauze to keep them from moving too much.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12320
Suggestions: These are not "OMG PUT THESE IN AND IT WILL FIX EVERYTHING" suggestions, they're seeder topics for anyone who wants to segway with them. I do not expect them to be put in, and some probably do not deserve full recognition, I'm just throwing topics out there.

Make Healing Rain Mobile. Rain clouds don't sit in one spot, why not have it move so it tries to maximize it's own healing? Or possibly make it so it slowly moves towards globs of people.

Create a new totem that lets Shamans cast while moving their spells while in it's AoE, this would make Totemic Projection godly for Restoration though, and almost required to do Spread Healing.

Allow Shamans to cast spells while in Ghost Wolf form, perhaps with shortened cast timers?

Healing Water Elemental pet - could be cool, no idea how it'd work though. (Perhaps a ghostly attendant? Since Water is taken by Mages atm)

Allow multiple Healing Rains. Why the conductivity talent hasn't allowed two going at the same time is beyond me, if Healing Rain was needed at the same spot you'd just put it back there after 10 seconds or readjust it. I'd argue the change is actually worse, because throughput is no longer present in the talent, just a slightly longer HR.

Add in some sort of Instant AoE heal similar to Swiftmend/Circle of Healing/Light of Dawn

Modify Earth Shield so it doesn't have charges, Lightning/Water Shield doesn't have charges, why does Earth Shield need them?

Modify Elemental Blast so it has a heal component.

Allow Tidal waves to be consumed for instant Healing Surge, perhaps make it stack to 3-4 for the instant so it's not too easy to reach all the time, but is usable

Allow Spirit Link Totem to be more usable, the reduced damage is nice, but if it gets set near a tank and someone with low health... tank just dropped health and probably got killed by the boss. oops.

Ancestral Guidance could become a passive and function similarly to Dream of Cenarius. Or at the very least extend the duration up from 10 seconds to 30 seconds. Having everything be tied to CDs is stupid, it doesn't even compare to HTT's raw throughput. It also requires that Resto Shamans start DpSing. This ones more beneficial for DpS, except, oh if you need that big wave of healing, HTT is there for the taking.

Two topics below were covered fairly well in last thread and thread in PTR.
Make the CH glyph baseline.
Make the HTT baseline.

EDIT:: Not sure if joke, or serious, but figure someone went to all the trouble, so why not let other people know about it? I DO NOT ENDORSE SIGNING THIS, THIS EDIT IS MERELY FOR OBSERVATION PURPOSES ONLY FOR ANY INTERESTED PARTIES, SIGNING OR INTERACTING BEYOND VIEWING IS NOT THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THIS EDIT FOR THIS LINK.
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive
Edited by Garous on 6/30/2013 5:47 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
Simply put: Shaman need more instant casts, or abilities that make their casts instant. It's unbelievable that you guys still have so many spells on cast timers. Other healers have a lot of instant healing spells. My class is almost entirely made up of instant spells.

I honestly think you guys should be able to cast two instant HRs at once. Have it work like Roll or Hand of Guldan. It's a joke that HR has a 2 second cast and a 10 sec CD. This isn't cataclysm anymore,
Edited by Shaima on 6/30/2013 5:00 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
06/30/2013 04:59 PMPosted by Shaima
Simply put: Shaman need more instant casts, or abilities that make their casts instant. It's unbelievable that you guys still have so many spells on cast timers. Other healers have a lot of instant healing spells. My class is almost entirely made up of instant spells.


Unleash Life could've been this, but Bliz actually found a way to make UE even worse for resto than it's been the last two expansions, by turning it into an empty GCD you press before HR.

Make the +30% to HR baseline, roll Riptide into Unleash Life and buff it to parity with Holy Shock/Swiftmend.
Edited by Rexoss on 6/30/2013 7:51 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
Here's another idea, basically the Resto Shaman version of Genesis.

Flash Flood
Instant Cast
Consumes your healing rain and restores 77,500 health to 6 low health allies within a 40 yard range.


This would require you to have a healing rain down already but would consume it for spread healing.

Though I think I like

Scattered Showers

Shares Cooldown with Healing Rain

Applies Scattered Showers of Healing rain to 6 low health raid members, following the player and healing them for xx health every xx seconds.


better
Edited by Luvbacon on 6/30/2013 6:13 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555


EDIT:: Not sure if joke, or serious, but figure someone went to all the trouble, so why not let other people know about it? I DO NOT ENDORSE SIGNING THIS, THIS EDIT IS MERELY FOR OBSERVATION PURPOSES ONLY FOR ANY INTERESTED PARTIES, SIGNING OR INTERACTING BEYOND VIEWING IS NOT THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THIS EDIT FOR THIS LINK.
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive


If it gets lots of signatures, than I'm serious. If not, j/k
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
Eagerly awaiting what Blizzard has cooked up, because it sounds like they want to nerf the stacked mechanics of other healers and boost Resto Shaman stacked healing at the same time. They seem to be firm in their Shaman niche idea, for now. And while I personally think that is an objectively terrible idea making a bad situation worse, response from the entire healing playerbase will be interesting, and Shaman need *something* rather than nothing. it's been said in the other thread, but at this point they don't have a whole lot to lose.

Also of note: why does GC seem to worry about buffing Chain Heal so much when Healing Rain is becoming more overused than CH was? At least back during Sunwell there were different ranks of CH to cast (so technically different spells). I can't be the only one who thinks it's really dumb that Shaman's AoE multi target heal, which is already worth casting on only 2 targets now, is likely to be buffed further due to Blizzard's stubbornness about this stacked healing thing. If the spell is buffed upwards of 30%+, which it will have to be for Shaman to dominate their stacked healing niche as much as they fail at spreading/moving, the spell will be the Shaman's answer to anything, single or multi target.

What does that say about the rest of the kit? I'm not saying to preemptively nerf the spell or anything: I am saying that i find it extremely unbalanced when this is likely to be the case, and Shaman should really have a more well rounded kit. Who is desiring this niche to continue anyway (besides Blizzard employees)?
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Maybe once Resto Shaman start casting Healing Rain on a single target Blizzard will realize these changes aren't for the best.

Let's say Chain Heal has the jump increase made baseline, becomes instant cast, but has a 2 second cooldown. Resto Shaman would still be working in Healing Rain, Healing Stream, Unleash, and Riptide (as well as all their cooldowns).
This would help alleviate some of their spread, mobile, smart and instant heal issues. I also highly doubt it would lead to Chain Heal spam because Riptide makes Chain Heal stronger, Healing Rain would still be stronger (maybe not on 2 targets but on 3 - 4 which is about where it should be), HST would still be very effective, and Unleash also strengthens most heals.

I think this would be the most viable change Blizzard could make at this point in time.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
Remove the cooldown of healing rain and make it instant cast, then make it so you can only have 1 up.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12320
Maybe once Resto Shaman start casting Healing Rain on a single target Blizzard will realize these changes aren't for the best.

Let's say Chain Heal has the jump increase made baseline, becomes instant cast, but has a 2 second cooldown. Resto Shaman would still be working in Healing Rain, Healing Stream, Unleash, and Riptide (as well as all their cooldowns).
This would help alleviate some of their spread, mobile, smart and instant heal issues. I also highly doubt it would lead to Chain Heal spam because Riptide makes Chain Heal stronger, Healing Rain would still be stronger (maybe not on 2 targets but on 3 - 4 which is about where it should be), HST would still be very effective, and Unleash also strengthens most heals.

I think this would be the most viable change Blizzard could make at this point in time.

This would at least band aid Shamans well enough to limp through the next raid tier, if nothing else is done. This constant band aid fix for Shamans really needs to stop though. There's a whole avenue of possibilities to help Shamans be competitive, but they're just not being taken in favor of the "Shamans are fine, enough that they can do the encounter" approach by Blizzard right now. I'm sorry guys, but that just doesn't fly.

I would like to bring up the topic of HST. Correct me if I'm wrong, but HST is a stationary single multi-target HoT spell with a smart mechanic thrown in. What I mean by single multi-target is that HST will heal any low health target nearby, acting like a HoT on everyone, but only able to heal a single target. Can HST be considered a Water Elemental Healing pet on a short duration with only one spell cast? Also, why is it bounded on only one target? Why not multi-targets who need healing? Or better yet, have the stationary HoTs dispenser shoot out actual HoTs onto the raid? (Some of this is made in jest, but the majority is serious)

I would also like to reiterate that I feel sad about Shaman Mastery. Triage Healing just isn't useful this tier. Perhaps if Blizzard brought back the mechanic fights where certain attacks will bring a target down to 10% health and need healing, a good shaman can anticipate that and eat it up. The longish cast times on their bigger spells though is kinda off putting. In that 2.5 seconds another class can push in with their faster heals and neuter the Shamans cast.

Scattered Showers seems like it could be pretty cool, though I'm liking the Flash Flood spell more. It seems though that Blizzard wants Shamans between a rock and a hard place. They won't give you new spells because they're hard to balance with existing spells you have. **OR** They won't give you new spells because it's too similar to X spell from Y class and they want Shamans to be unique. Sorry, that just sounds lazy.
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You Shaman are missing the point; You're not getting buffed like you should be because of your mastery in PVP. Deep Healing is lackluster in PvE, but its stupidly potent in PvP. If Blizzard buffs Shaman as some have suggested, R Shaman would be too powerful in PVP.

So, if you want this fixed, the mastery needs to be changed. PVP Restos don't want that to happen. Deep Healing has effectively neutered the development of the Shaman healing spec.
Edited by Teriz on 6/30/2013 9:02 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
You Shaman are missing the point; You're not getting buffed like you should be because of your mastery in PVP. Deep Healing is lackluster in PvE, but its stupidly potent in PvP. If Blizzard buffs Shaman as some have suggested, R Shaman would be too powerful in PVP.

So, if you want this fixed, the mastery needs to be changed. PVP Restos don't want that to happen. Deep Healing has effectively neutered the development of the Shaman healing spec.


No one here would be sorry to see Shaman Mastery get revamped, but you seem to be missing a point yourself: there is no inclination by Blizzard of addressing Mastery at all. If they won't address Mastery, something else needs to change until they do. It is completely unreasonable for nothing to happen in the meantime, the PvE situation is that bad.

Blizzard very specifically stated that they intend to buff Shaman while in their niche, are looking into nerfing the stacked healing potency of other specs (GC specifically mentioned SCK so far), and are looking at adjusting/replacing Totemic Projection in the Tier 45 talents. That is all GC has said so far, so that is what the thread is mostly about.
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96 Tauren Monk
16840
Oh boy. Who let Teriz out of his cage.

>deep healing lackluster

lolok

PS:

We're all still waiting for those parses, Teriz.
Edited by Mist on 6/30/2013 9:30 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11510
EDIT:: Not sure if joke, or serious, but figure someone went to all the trouble, so why not let other people know about it? I DO NOT ENDORSE SIGNING THIS, THIS EDIT IS MERELY FOR OBSERVATION PURPOSES ONLY FOR ANY INTERESTED PARTIES, SIGNING OR INTERACTING BEYOND VIEWING IS NOT THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THIS EDIT FOR THIS LINK.
https://www.change.org/petitions/blizzard-entertainment-give-restoration-shaman-spread-movement-healing-tools-to-be-competitive


No one is fooled. Please just remove this part of the post.
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96 Troll Shaman
18105
06/30/2013 09:28 PMPosted by Mist
Oh boy. Who let Teriz out of his cage.
Edited by Keg on 6/30/2013 9:34 PM PDT
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06/30/2013 09:31 PMPosted by Keg
Oh boy. Who let Teriz out of his cage.
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You Shaman are missing the point; You're not getting buffed like you should be because of your mastery in PVP. Deep Healing is lackluster in PvE, but its stupidly potent in PvP. If Blizzard buffs Shaman as some have suggested, R Shaman would be too powerful in PVP.

So, if you want this fixed, the mastery needs to be changed. PVP Restos don't want that to happen. Deep Healing has effectively neutered the development of the Shaman healing spec.


No one here would be sorry to see Shaman Mastery get revamped, but you seem to be missing a point yourself: there is no inclination by Blizzard of addressing Mastery at all. If they won't address Mastery, something else needs to change until they do. It is completely unreasonable for nothing to happen in the meantime, the PvE situation is that bad.

Blizzard very specifically stated that they intend to buff Shaman while in their niche, are looking into nerfing the stacked healing potency of other specs (GC specifically mentioned SCK so far), and are looking at adjusting/replacing Totemic Projection in the Tier 45 talents. That is all GC has said so far, so that is what the thread is mostly about.


And none of that has happened yet. Don't you think it's a little strange that there's no indication of any of this in the PTR? Isn't this something we should be testing now? When are these major changes going to happen? At the end of the PTR? Why are Druids, and Monks getting talent buffs and Shaman are getting nothing except a Conductivity nerf?

All I'm saying is that the reason Shaman are in the position they are in is because of Deep Healing. Everything else is just BS. This is why Shaman are running a WotLK playstyle, and every other healer is well into the MoP playstyle. This is also why GC is giving Shaman the run around, and tossing them irrelevant bones like nerfing SCK to make you feel better. This is also why a Blue isn't responding to the numerous threads on this topic.

In short, RSham PvP has screwed over RSham PvE, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

There are no buffs coming, because there's no way Blizzard is swapping out the Resto mastery this late in the expansion. its really that simple.

I highly recommend that RShams reroll to something more useful for their guilds. The bench is a lonely place to be.
Edited by Teriz on 6/30/2013 10:48 PM PDT
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A good article from high end Shaman about the current state of resto shaman. They echo a lot of your concerns.

http://manaflask.com/en/articles/talking-class-restoration-shamans

Great read. Enjoy!
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100 Draenei Shaman
5740
My idea:

Each stack of Tidal Waves reduces the cast time of Chain Heal by 50%.

CH is weak and clunky enough that I don't think it would be overpowered to be able to chain cast it while moving. Adjust mana cost upward if necessary for balance.


And none of that has happened yet. Don't you think it's a little strange that there's no indication of any of this in the PTR? Isn't this something we should be testing now? When are these major changes going to happen? At the end of the PTR? Why are Druids, and Monks getting talent buffs and Shaman are getting nothing except a Conductivity nerf?


I'm afraid you're right. It's almost like they just want to ignore us and hope we'll go away so they don't have to face up to their incompetence.
Edited by Rheeah on 7/1/2013 12:52 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
A good article from high end Shaman about the current state of resto shaman. They echo a lot of your concerns.

http://manaflask.com/en/articles/talking-class-restoration-shamans

Great read. Enjoy!


I like this article. Some of the biggest Shaman names playing right now:

-Think Mastery is a big problem and should be fixed. Fav quote is from Hammerfal: "Hate it. It’s straight up the worst part of our toolkit, and needed a change years ago. Most people will say ‘oh but it’s great for progression’, when it really isn’t." (Preach that !@#$ my man)

-All want spread healing addressed. From Sonie: "Maybe it would be fine if we actually made up for this by being far superior on stacked fights, but sadly that's not the case."

-Quite a few of them consider Firelands to be the Shaman "dark times". "Firelands was a pretty bad spot for us", "Hm, I only recently rerolled to Shaman but I do remember how bad the class was in Firelands" and "We were shunned in Firelands" from three separate posters.

-Most consider Shaman to be significantly hindered in 10 mans compared to 25. "hamans definitely need some quality of life buffs both in 10 man and in spread healing situations overall." "The class is limited by the abilities as many of our healing spells are not as effective in 10 man raids." and " It honestly feels super frustrating because I can't use half of my kit."

it's like they are echoing most of the complaints in the OP, not to mention several complaints that have been around since Tier 12. How peculiar.
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