Sad State of R. Shaman: Mechanics Oriented P2

90 Pandaren Monk
13165
Could be a revamp/reinstate of that old talent that allowed shock spells to boost the next healing spell cast. Seems like it'd fit the tier. I don't remember what it was called since I never used it.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
Water Elemental!

Also, level 75 talent. Not 45.


Water Ele is already a mage thing and I'm not sure how to really differentiate it. Maybe a cooldown based healer guardian like the other ele totems. I'm not sure how it would interact with the level 90 improved ele totem talent and that might make the synergy between the two too powerful.

And yeah, 75. Given I have two 90 resto shaman I really should have known that.


Primal Elemetalist already specifies "Your Earth and Fire Elemental Totems..." There need be no interaction. It would of course be 1 min duration, 5 min cooldown like the others.

And the Mage argument is really dumb, no offense. They're FROST mages. The fact that the elemental itself is named incorrectly shouldn't prevent us from having a pet that serves an entirely separate function.
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Could be a revamp/reinstate of that old talent that allowed shock spells to boost the next healing spell cast. Seems like it'd fit the tier. I don't remember what it was called since I never used it.


God I hated that talent with a passion.

If properly buffed, it could potentially work, and be interesting though. It would add some DPS to the Shaman healing style, and give Elemental and Enhancement some interesting healing options in PvP and PvE.

Here's the tooltip;

After casting any Shock spell, your next heal's mana cost is reduced by X% of the cost of the Shock spell, and its healing effectiveness is increased by Y%.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
8555
My vote for the talent to replace Healing Tide with if they don't just stick SLT in there (which would be fine with me);

Flash Flood
Instant Cast
10 Second CD
Consumes the casters Healing Rain to heal 6 low health raid members for xxxx.


The amount of the heal should be roughly what a full length Healing Rain would heal for.

I would love it if they put in a blatant spread healing talent. Because when we all choose it constantly, they won't have a leg to stand on with the whole stacked healing niche.
Edited by Luvbacon on 7/3/2013 12:46 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
My vote for the talent to replace Healing Tide with if they don't just stick SLT in there (which would be fine with me);

Flash Flood
Instant Cast
10 Second CD
Consumes the casters Healing Rain to heal 6 low health raid members for xxxx.


The amount of the heal should be roughly what a full length Healing Rain would heal for.

I would love it if they put in a blatant spread healing talent. Because when we all choose it constantly, they won't have a leg to stand on with the whole stacked healing niche.


Or you know, add something that actually gives us choice and keep pushing for the mechanical fixes we need baseline?

Talents fixing spread healing aren't acceptable, don't let them believe they are!
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Does anyone believe that SLT could potentially replace HTT? I know some of you wanted that to happen, but I'm not too sure.

Any ideas on what the new talent could be?

I thought that would be what happened before if any swap was made but I doubt it now. If that was the case I believe they would have announced it together to prevent any QQ from taking place later.

I really don't want to see another talent that augments Healing Rain though.

Maybe something like

Healing River Totem
15.5% of base mana
Requires Shaman
Requires level 75
Summons a Water Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster for 15 sec that heals the most injured party or raid member within 40 yards for [(($SP * 0.444) * ((1 * 1)))] every 2 sec.

Only 3 Healing River Totems may be active at one time. Accumulates an additional charge once every 20 sec.

Replaces Healing Stream Totem.


I doubt something like that would happen though cause Call of the Elements and Totemic Restoration would probably mess with it quite a bit. But it would be fun.
Edited by Amaravati on 7/3/2013 1:02 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8420
Stop pretending Shaman spread healing will get buffed.

Shamans are designed to be weakest healer when the fight isn't stacked.

That's not my opinion. It's the crabs.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
Stop pretending Shaman spread healing will get buffed.

Shamans are designed to be weakest healer when the fight isn't stacked.

That's not my opinion. It's the crabs.


It was also the crabs opinion that healing tide shouldn't be baseline. Things change.

The niche isn't acceptable in today's raiding scene, that is a fact. If we let up on the issue it won't get addressed, ever.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14320
I would prefer for HTT's talent replacement to -not- be another totem.

I'd still settle for an instant cast CH with a short CD for spread healing, so long as it has the 2x range that the glyph should give it. It can have a base CD of 4 seconds, but each jump does the same amount of healing. Similar to how Chain Lightning was changed. The glyph could be updated to let it chain to 5-6 targets instead of 4, but increases the CD by 2 seconds.
Edited by Marienna on 7/3/2013 1:21 PM PDT
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Here's my idea:

Maelstrom Shield

Combines Lightning Shield, Water Shield, and Earth Shield. Granting the Shaman all of the benefits of all three shields at once. 6 charges, lasts 10 minutes. Can only be cast on the Shaman.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
I'd still settle for an instant cast CH with a short CD for spread healing, so long as it has the 2x range that the glyph should give it. It can have a base CD of 4 seconds, but each jump does the same amount of healing. Similar to how Chain Lightning was changed. The glyph could be updated to let it chain to 5-6 targets instead of 4, but increases the CD by 2 seconds.


I think removing the healing reduction completely would be a massive buff in 10 man and 25 man. It would overshadow all similar spells. But increasing it's target cap, increasing range and cutting the healing reduction to like 10-15 percent..one or a mixture of these would be definitely good though. Or reducing cast time as well. Something has definitely got to give on the spell though.
Edited by Marathel on 7/3/2013 1:37 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Monk
15135
The other choices all involve doing either damage or healing to produce an effect. AG gives us a burst healing mechanic and Cond gives us an eternal (potentially) Healing Rain. HTT was the odd duck out and since there are no ducks in WoW it obviously had to go.

What if we went with something like an inverse atonement mechanic for resto? Healing, but not over healing, produces a smart damage component. The reverse would be true as well so any damaging spells would produce a smart heal effect.

We could call it Elemental Conversion.

For resto trying to dps to make smart heals wouldn't work because the dps and the dps to heal conversion would be low enough that you'd end up losing overall hps + dps trying to do it. The same would be true for ele and enh trying to heal to dps.

Exact numbers would require a fair amount of study of hps and dps of each spec plus trying to figure out how to make the resulting numbers balance against the other two talents so I won't go into that. I'm simply laying out a possible mechanic.

The idea is that resto would take it for utility (damage) while ele and enh would take it to help spot heal saving healers mana by taking up trivial damage or taking the edge off moderate damage.

Would this work in practice? I haven't though about it enough.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
07/03/2013 01:29 PMPosted by Marathel
I'd still settle for an instant cast CH with a short CD for spread healing, so long as it has the 2x range that the glyph should give it. It can have a base CD of 4 seconds, but each jump does the same amount of healing. Similar to how Chain Lightning was changed. The glyph could be updated to let it chain to 5-6 targets instead of 4, but increases the CD by 2 seconds.


I think removing the healing reduction completely would be a massive buff in 10 man and 25 man. But increasing it's target cap, increasing range and cutting the healing reduction to like 10-15 percent..one or a mixture of these would be definitely good though. Or reducing cast time as well.


Chain Heal: Baseline range increase.

Glyph of Chaining: Your Chain Heal spell now heals 6 targets, is instant cast, and doesn't attenuate. 8 second cooldown.

That easy.
Edited by Pebble on 7/3/2013 1:37 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Chain Heal: Baseline range increase.

Glyph of Chaining: Your Chain Heal spell now heals 6 targets, is instant cast, and doesn't attenuate. 8 second cooldown.

That easy.


I think it would still be mandatory. Maybe have baseline range increase, baseline healing reduction to 10 percent.

Make the glyph target 6 targets instead of 4 but increase the reduction up to 15 percent or 20. I think Chain's heal massive healing reduction per jump is the biggest problem with it's range a close second, target cap third.

I think increasing the range would be the easiest thing to do and it wouldn't be OP. Then perhaps have a glyph or baseline increase the cap to 5 or 6. If glyph have a tradeoff. The healing reduction definitely has to go down but it cannot disappear completely. Because it would crush every other aoe healing spell similar to it. If shamans were willing for its cost in mana to go up though...I could see the spell getting more buffs. Personally if they

-increased the range
-cut the healing reduction down to 15 or 10 percent. I would take take it. Then perhaps have a glyph increase the target cap but with the tradeoff off a slight increase in the reduction again. Definitely needs to come down from 30 percent though.
Edited by Marathel on 7/3/2013 1:50 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
Chain Heal: Baseline range increase.

Glyph of Chaining: Your Chain Heal spell now heals 6 targets, is instant cast, and doesn't attenuate. 8 second cooldown.

That easy.


I think it would still be mandatory. Maybe have baseline range increase, baseline healing reduction to 10 percent.

Make the glyph target 6 targets instead of 4 but increase the reduction up to 15 percent or 20. I think Chain's heal massive healing reduction per jump is the biggest problem with it's range a close second, target cap third.

I think increasing the range would be the easiest thing to do and it wouldn't be OP. Then perhaps have a glyph or baseline increase the cap to 5 or 6. If glyph have a tradeoff. The healing reduction definitely has to go down but it cannot disappear completely.


Of course it can, don't be silly. The trade off is the cooldown, that's more than enough. Chain Heal goes from being a filler to a WG/CoH like spell. Completely optional.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
I'd like to see Telluric Currents as a talent. Your lightning bolts restore mana, and heal you and targets around you when you do damage.

Given the Lightning Bolt buff that you guys got last patch, that could be a really nice talent.
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85 Gnome Priest
6840
07/03/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Pebble


I think removing the healing reduction completely would be a massive buff in 10 man and 25 man. But increasing it's target cap, increasing range and cutting the healing reduction to like 10-15 percent..one or a mixture of these would be definitely good though. Or reducing cast time as well.


Chain Heal: Baseline range increase.

Glyph of Chaining: Your Chain Heal spell now heals 6 targets, is instant cast, and doesn't attenuate. 8 second cooldown.

That easy.


Wow, you pretty much read my mind. I was just about to reply to Marathel with something like this. I was also going to say to Mara that Blizz does have to be careful with CH. They can't buff it too much, otherwise we'll go back to LK days, and nobody should want that. Other than the range restriction, I feel CH is in a pretty good place. It could use a small throughput buff, but not too much. I still cast HR, HST, RT and refresh ES in between spamming CH even when people are all stacked up and taking damage (where CH shines brightest), I wouldn't want to make it so powerful that this is not the case.

Personally, I'm hopeful Blizz has something other than messing with CH up their sleeve to help us out with spread/mobility healing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Of course it can, don't be silly. The trade off is the cooldown, that's more than enough. Chain Heal goes from being a filler to a WG/CoH like spell. Completely optional.


I really doubt it would be optional. My level 509ilvl resto shaman gets baseline first CH jump at 38k. Crits for about 72kish.

If I could hit a button every 8 seconds that could hit 6 targets instantly with it all hitting for 38k and the chance for at least 1 or more to hit for 72k you honestly don't see it as a problem?

This is with a level 509ilvl shaman. Get one with even more gear and the healing jumps significantly. This completely blows COH, POH, LOD, WG and anything else similar out of the water.

A more moderate version of that glyphl I would completely agree. Just in my opinion what you offered is pretty strong lol. I do think if you still had to cast it though it would be a lot better already.

Chain Heal's biggest problem is the healing reduction. 30 percent is massive. After that you have range and then target gap. Tone done the healing reduction, increase the range and offer a glyph with a cap increase perhaps(or make a cap increase baseline for 25 man) then you're talking. On 10 man a 5 percent increase on a baseline reduction of 10 or 15 percent wouldn't be out of line in my opinion for a target cap increase to 6 in 10 man. Doing it to 5 baseline works too.
Edited by Marathel on 7/3/2013 2:03 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
07/03/2013 02:00 PMPosted by Marathel
Of course it can, don't be silly. The trade off is the cooldown, that's more than enough. Chain Heal goes from being a filler to a WG/CoH like spell. Completely optional.


I really doubt it would be optional. My level 509ilvl resto shaman gets baseline first CH jump at 38k. Crits for about 72kish.

If I could hit a button every 8 seconds that could hit 6 targets instantly with it all hitting for 38k and the chance for at least 1 or more to hit for 72k you honestly don't see it as a problem?

This is with a level 509ilvl shaman. Get one with even more gear and the healing jumps significantly. This completely blows COH, POH, LOD, WG and anything else similar out of the water.

A more moderate version of that glyphl I would completely agree. Just in my opinion what you offered is pretty strong lol. I do think if you still had to cast it though it would be a lot better already.

Chain Heal's biggest problem is the healing reduction. 30 percent is massive. After that you have range and then target gap. Tone done the healing reduction, increase the range and offer a glyph with a cap increase perhaps(or make a cap increase baseline for 25 man) then you're talking.


You're giving up your AoE filler. Outside of chain heal you're left to spam basically single target spells. In a stacked situation it would undoubtably be a nerf over unglyphed.

And regardless, mechanics first. Numbers later.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
You're giving up your AoE filler. Outside of chain heal you're left to spam basically single target spells. In a stacked situation it would undoubtably be a nerf over unglyphed.

And regardless, mechanics first. Numbers later.


I don't think it would be a problem at all in some fights but would definitely take creativity to overcome it. Plenty of cooldowns or ways to go around it.

Fair point though and in some fights it would definitely be a nerf if all you did was stack through most of it. I don't think it would be a big big nerf though. 8 seconds isn't bad.
Edited by Marathel on 7/3/2013 2:13 PM PDT
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