Sad State of R. Shaman: Mechanics Oriented P2

90 Goblin Shaman
6500
You Shaman are missing the point; You're not getting buffed like you should be because of your mastery in PVP. Deep Healing is lackluster in PvE, but its stupidly potent in PvP. If Blizzard buffs Shaman as some have suggested, R Shaman would be too powerful in PVP.

So, if you want this fixed, the mastery needs to be changed. PVP Restos don't want that to happen. Deep Healing has effectively neutered the development of the Shaman healing spec.


Shaman are weak in PvP atm too.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5810
5.4 PTR is like watching a train-wreck happening in slow motion, screaming "NOOOO!!! STOP!!!" but realizing it won't help.

Kind of like 5.3 PTR, actually.
Edited by Rheeah on 7/1/2013 3:01 PM PDT
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5.4 PTR is like watching a train-wreck happening in slow motion, screaming "NOOOO!!! STOP!!!" but realizing it won't help.

Kind of like 5.3 PTR, actually.


A train wreck is an apt description, because there's no way for Blizzard to fix the problem without completely overhauling the entire spec. I don't believe they are willing to do that at this point anyway, because it would require an overhaul of the entire class as well.

Like I said beforehand; our mastery has screwed us.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
A train wreck is an apt description, because there's no way for Blizzard to fix the problem without completely overhauling the entire spec. I don't believe they are willing to do that at this point anyway, because it would require an overhaul of the entire class as well.


That really isn't true at all. A few key changes could go an extremely long way towards fixing us for the immediate future and paving the way for an overhaul in 6.0, with little PvP impact.

They simply refuse to work on us.

Our mastery doesn't function in the current raiding environment, but it hasn't "screwed us."
Edited by Pebble on 7/1/2013 4:12 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Siegemaster fits the definition of train wreck. lol
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90 Blood Elf Monk
17050
lol.

shaman mastery is not why shaman are in a bad spot and you'd be a fool to think that it is. Like you literally don't understand shaman if you think mastery is the culprit.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
The best thing to do at this point is to continue hammering them - keep Tweeting Ghostcrawler, make him see dozens of Resto Shaman complaints every time he opens his twitter account, and keep posting on the PTR forums. The warlock community has already showed us this PTR cycle that complaining loud enough makes things happen - the Resto Shaman community is historically not vocal enough.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
lol.

shaman mastery is not why shaman are in a bad spot and you'd be a fool to think that it is. Like you literally don't understand shaman if you think mastery is the culprit.


And how much have you raided on your Shaman this expansion, because I think you're the one that doesn't understand current Shaman? I will refer you to this interview http://www.manaflask.com/articles/2222?ref=24 with Resto Shaman in Method, Blood Legion, Scrub Busters, Exodus (former), etc. Every one of them identified Shaman mastery as a huge problem with the spec. Apparently, they are all fools that don't understand their class too. It wasn't the issue as much in Cata, but it very much is a huge part of the problem in the current raid design and healing model.

You can download an addon that will tell you the percentage of your output contributed by mastery and crit after each fight, and you can extrapolate that against your character sheet mastery to estimate the average health % that the raid was at. On an average of 13/13 HM fights, mastery contributes 5% of my output and the raid averages 88% HP on targets that my healing hits. Healer mastery on average contributes 15-20% of their total output (excluding Paladins as an outlier). Assuming 15% is the baseline that healers are balanced around, it appears that Shaman are balanced around the raid being at 58% HP (it was someone on EJ that calculated this - Hamlet maybe?), which obviously rarely happens in raids.

That means that we are already losing a significant chunk of our output due to being balanced around a metric that isn't realistic in the raid environment. On top of that, the impact of Mastery on PvP means that they can't really entertain adding new instant casts, making the Riptide glyph more viable, or look at buffing anything outside of CH/HR/ELW. We are taxed for our mastery as well. Look at the amount GHW heals for compared to Divine Light or Greater Heal on a 100% HP target. GHW heals for significantly less, presumably because they have a mastery assumption baked into it - and they probably need to for PvP. The problem is, most other healer masteries affect most everything they cast, but they do not have the top line output of their spells taxed for it. That makes Shaman heals (at least direct single target) inherently heal for less than those of other healers, because the mastery threshold is balanced too low for PvP purposes.

That said, would changing the mastery or changing the thresholds do a lot to fix Shaman? On it's own, not really. It might be up to about a 10% buff, but wouldn't do much for spread healing or mobility. However, what it would do, is it would give them the flexibility to actually address Shaman mechanics without being handcuffed by the PvP implications. That is really the biggest problem with Shaman mastery - necessary buffs for PvE are denied, delayed, or can not be given because the mastery causes so many balance issues between PvE and PvP. When they do give buffs, they are almost forced to be buffs to things like HR and CH that aren't used in PvP. Redesigning our mastery almost has to be the first step to being able to address other mechanical issues.
Edited by Tiberria on 7/1/2013 3:59 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
13165

Like I said beforehand; our mastery has screwed us.


No one aspect of the toolkit is screwing the class over to this degree. It's certainly not helping, but Shaman is not going to become magically acceptable (let alone competitive) by addressing Mastery alone, or any other one thing. If spread healing is "addressed" at all this patch they will still probably be the worst at it by a notable margin. If stacked healing is empowered, we all still have the first five fights of SoO telling us that niche is not going to matter, and it's very likely that more fights will be just as bad.

I just find the whole thing a mess right now. Resto Shaman's raid situation on the current PTR is probably the worst I've ever seen it since I started playing. I don't even know what suggestions to give anymore. No fixes that would matter seem realistic to expect, or have already been mentioned ad nauseum.
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Our mastery hasn't literally screwed us completely, but it simply does not work as well today than in Cata due to how the raid healing environment has evolved. Raid CDs have been handed out like candy since at least mid Cata, to the point that almost all burst has to be dealt with a raid CD or series of raid CDs. When was the last time someone tried to heal a high damage progression fight like H Empress without using a single raid CD?

We have a raid environment where health bars drop like a rock in a single second (outside of Spirit Shell), but also enough raid cooldowns to make them go back up just as fast. All the raid cooldowns have evolved to a point that they are required tools just to get through many mechanics, instead of being true "oh snap!" buttons that you save for when things really really go bad.

Due to this, and the lack of much sustained damage in between burst boss abilities, leave little room for our Mastery to be meaningful. Given how our heals are balanced around the idea of being noodles near full health so they don't scale too outrageously with Mastery (ironically), it leaves us with little use for it. Add the fact that our toolkit is NOT designed to deliver healing in a truly efficient way (when your main AoE tool is close to being more efficient than your other spells for 1 target, there is a problem), and we end up in a poor spot.
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90 Troll Shaman
14360
The more I think about it, the happier I am in thinking that Conductivity should be baseline for all three specs. It's not a horrible idea, it's just a horrible talent. Something else could go in its place.

it's becoming clearer that Chain Heal is the problem.

1.) They don't want to buff its range without a cool down penalty.
2.) They're afraid of us becoming Chain Heal Spammers.
3.) They've said that it has hard coding development issues.

Wouldn't the answer be, Remove it? It's clearly the problem and working around it has been just a nightmare for 10 man Resto Shamans and Developers. Then you can design a new ability, talent, or glyph that fits better.
Edited by Shaylana on 7/1/2013 5:38 PM PDT
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Removing it wouldn't really be the answer. The correct thing would be for the developers to stop living in Wrath and thinking that CH is the best thing we have, because it is not.

As for conductivity, I wouldn't mind having the new version made a Resto passive, having it only work with CH but up the effect to +1.5 seconds or +2 seconds of HR duration. However, I'm unsure on how the new Conductivity even interacts with haste breakpoints, so not sure how eager I'd be to have it around if it messes with them somehow.
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07/01/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Pebble
A train wreck is an apt description, because there's no way for Blizzard to fix the problem without completely overhauling the entire spec. I don't believe they are willing to do that at this point anyway, because it would require an overhaul of the entire class as well.


That really isn't true at all. A few key changes could go an extremely long way towards fixing us for the immediate future and paving the way for an overhaul in 6.0, with little PvP impact.

They simply refuse to work on us.

Our mastery doesn't function in the current raiding environment, but it hasn't "screwed us."


Then you need to come up with a better reason why Blizzard refuses to update Shaman to the same level as other healing specs, because no other reason makes sense. It's like Blizzard is afraid to buff the spec, and the only thing that makes sense is that hugely buffing RShaman makes PvP Shaman OP via the mastery.

It makes no sense to buff Druids, Priests, Monks, and Paladins, and not touch Shaman at all.
Edited by Teriz on 7/1/2013 5:48 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
2.) They're afraid of us becoming Chain Heal Spammers.


But this is so dumb!

Priests spam Prayer of Healing and Atonement.
Druids spam Rejuv.
Pallies spam Eternal Flame.
Monks spam ReM, Fistweaving, Uplift, etc.

Why is it okay for every other class to spam a spell, but it's NOT okay for Shaman to spam THEIR ICONIC SPELL????
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It's like Blizzard is afraid to buff the spec, and the only thing that makes sense is that hugely buffing RShaman makes PvP Shaman OP via the mastery.

They buffed ELW, HR and CH by 20% in the middle of ToT without much of a thought on PvP. There ARE ways to fix our situation without altering PvP much (and Resto isn't exactly as strong in PvP as it was in Cata, imo). That they refuse to do so is different.

Why is it okay for every other class to spam a spell, but it's NOT okay for Shaman to spam THEIR ICONIC SPELL????

Because Shaman.
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07/01/2013 05:55 PMPosted by Korghal
It's like Blizzard is afraid to buff the spec, and the only thing that makes sense is that hugely buffing RShaman makes PvP Shaman OP via the mastery.

They buffed ELW, HR and CH by 20% in the middle of ToT without much of a thought on PvP. There ARE ways to fix our situation without altering PvP much (and Resto isn't exactly as strong in PvP as it was in Cata, imo). That they refuse to do so is different.



Please note that a 20% buff to those spells isn't a significant buff, except for HR, and HR's limitations makes the 20% buff to that spell pretty irrelevant. They're probably going to buff HR again, and it isn't going to do anything to help the Shaman situation.

BTW, another PTR update, and no Shaman buffs. However Druids, Paladins, and Priests got buffed.

Nice.
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90 Troll Shaman
14360
07/01/2013 05:49 PMPosted by Tiriel
2.) They're afraid of us becoming Chain Heal Spammers.


But this is so dumb!

Priests spam Prayer of Healing and Atonement.
Druids spam Rejuv.
Pallies spam Eternal Flame.
Monks spam ReM, Fistweaving, Uplift, etc.

Why is it okay for every other class to spam a spell, but it's NOT okay for Shaman to spam THEIR ICONIC SPELL????


Because it has hardware issues. It's going to eventually be broken, so they need a fix which may necessitate removing it and replacing it with something else.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
Not sure why this surprises anyone, it's worked like this for years:

1. New expansion, all shaman specs hilariously undertuned.
2. Blizzard denies there's a problem and let's the class rot for 6+ months, then gives a ~25% buff almost every major patch after.
3. Final major patch of the expansion, shamans are good.
4. Repeat.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930

They buffed ELW, HR and CH by 20% in the middle of ToT without much of a thought on PvP. There ARE ways to fix our situation without altering PvP much (and Resto isn't exactly as strong in PvP as it was in Cata, imo). That they refuse to do so is different.


The reason they buffed CH/HR/ELW during the middle of ToT is because those abilities are barely used in PvP and they could buff them without any PvP balance impact. It certainly wasn't to help make ToT a less annoying experience for the spec, because they were essentially buffing stacked healing abilities in an instance which was all spread fights. The excuse they gave was they wanted to make sure that Shaman are the top performers on stacked fights like Megaera (which even those buffs failed to do), but the real reason was they couldn't touch anything else for fear of PvP ramifications. And, the PvP ramifications are primarily tied into the interaction with Mastery.

Unless they rework the Mastery completely, I really can't see anything coming on the 5.4 PTR outside of probably numbers changes to non-PvP impacting abilities (i.e HR and CH).
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