Prot, SoT or SoR

94 Night Elf Druid
3295
Hello,

I've been leveling my prot pally and was wondering wether SoT or SoR is the right seal to use while tanking. Can someone explain which one is better to use and why?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13750
SoI + Battle Healer. Passive heals, massive threat.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
You should pretty much always be in Insight. Truth and Righteousness both do pathetically low damage as Prot.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
Ideally, since the Seals are only on the global cooldown, you could switch to whichever one suits the situation at the time...but yes, Seal of Insight's a useful one for heavy tanking duty as long as you can hold aggro. Otherwise, use SoR for groups, SoT for single targets.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14895
but yes, Seal of Insight's a useful one for heavy tanking duty as long as you can hold aggro. Otherwise, use SoR for groups, SoT for single targets.
Except that SoI is our best aggro generating seal thanks to battle healer glyph, so your condition doesn't even work out.

SoI is the best, general purpose seal for tanking.

If neither you nor the rest of your raid really need that extra healing then you *could* switch to one of the others for a tiny bit of extra dps, but realistically there probably won't be any situation where that's a worthwhile concern in the foreseeable future.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
Hm...honestly, I've had trouble holding aggro before using Seal of Insight. Then again, last time I tried I was geared a lot lower than I am now. I'll have to give it a try again, it seems. :)
Edited by Benemus on 7/7/2013 9:05 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
10435
SoI + Battle Healer. Passive heals, massive threat.

I feel kind of stupid for never considering that.

Time to swap out Alabaster Shield, then. :D
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14895
Hm...honestly, I've had trouble holding aggro before using Seal of Insight. Then again, last time I tried I was geared a lot lower than I am now. I'll have to give it a try again, it seems. :)
You also don't have the glyph of battle healer, which would explain why SoI wasn't generating much threat. But even still SoT/SoR isn't going to generate much more threat than SoI without the glyph anyways since they do such little damage for prot.
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07/07/2013 09:10 PMPosted by Valethria
SoI + Battle Healer. Passive heals, massive threat.

I feel kind of stupid for never considering that.

Time to swap out Alabaster Shield, then. :D

Keep Alabaster Shield, ditch the HotR glyph instead.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
07/08/2013 10:38 AMPosted by Pancakê
Hm...honestly, I've had trouble holding aggro before using Seal of Insight. Then again, last time I tried I was geared a lot lower than I am now. I'll have to give it a try again, it seems. :)
You also don't have the glyph of battle healer, which would explain why SoI wasn't generating much threat. But even still SoT/SoR isn't going to generate much more threat than SoI without the glyph anyways since they do such little damage for prot.


Fair point. Guess next week's LFR runs are gonna have one tank trying something new....though maybe I won't mention that. ^_^
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90 Human Paladin
7295

You also don't have the glyph of battle healer, which would explain why SoI wasn't generating much threat. But even still SoT/SoR isn't going to generate much more threat than SoI without the glyph anyways since they do such little damage for prot.


Fair point. Guess next week's LFR runs are gonna have one tank trying something new....though maybe I won't mention that. ^_^


Might also want to Expertise cap there. You say you have problems holding threat, yet you're not Expertise capped, barely reforged... at ilvl 517, no reason not to be hit capped/exp capped. It's something you do in ilvl 460 gear...

Also, Haste gearing does a lot better with Seal of Insight/Battle Healer. It's one of our biggest mitigation combos, so if you're not using it, you're losing a lot of damage mitigation through healing you should be doing, even in a ... wait, what build are you ?
Edited by Berith on 7/8/2013 1:49 PM PDT
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97 Human Paladin
16535


Fair point. Guess next week's LFR runs are gonna have one tank trying something new....though maybe I won't mention that. ^_^


Might also want to Expertise cap there. You say you have problems holding threat, yet you're not Expertise capped, barely reforged... at ilvl 517, no reason not to be hit capped/exp capped. It's something you do in ilvl 460 gear...

Also, Haste gearing does a lot better with Seal of Insight/Battle Healer. It's one of our biggest mitigation combos, so if you're not using it, you're losing a lot of damage mitigation through healing you should be doing, even in a ... wait, what build are you ?


A build that's worked for me 'til now. I had problems holding threat, but I'm fine now. And I have put a lot more into Expertise than I had before - I did an extensive regemming last night. I generally lean towards mitigation, though, and after trying some reforging and more regemming, I decided I'm really not willing to sacrifice all the stats I'd need for any noticeable increase in haste.

The Seal of Insight bonus to my health would be nice, though, and I can swap something in for the Battle Healer glyph if the need arises. Like I said, next week will be very telling, one way or another.
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90 Human Paladin
7295
A build that's worked for me 'til now. I had problems holding threat, but I'm fine now. And I have put a lot more into Expertise than I had before - I did an extensive regemming last night. I generally lean towards mitigation, though, and after trying some reforging and more regemming, I decided I'm really not willing to sacrifice all the stats I'd need for any noticeable increase in haste.

The Seal of Insight bonus to my health would be nice, though, and I can swap something in for the Battle Healer glyph if the need arises. Like I said, next week will be very telling, one way or another.


That's the point though, you're not mitigating, you're avoidance/stam as far as I can tell. You soak up a bunch of big hits then avoid a few, making your healers always second guess what healing they have to give you.

Really, at least if you don't want to do the Haste thing (which is not for everyone, requires a bit faster reflexes/good rotation), you should at least try Mastery. Make that damage intake much smoother and much easier to predict for healers.

You do know the style of gear you have about one of the worse ones you can have as a Prot Paladin in MoP ? Mastery or Haste are both far superior options.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
A build that's worked for me 'til now. I had problems holding threat, but I'm fine now. And I have put a lot more into Expertise than I had before - I did an extensive regemming last night. I generally lean towards mitigation, though, and after trying some reforging and more regemming, I decided I'm really not willing to sacrifice all the stats I'd need for any noticeable increase in haste.

The Seal of Insight bonus to my health would be nice, though, and I can swap something in for the Battle Healer glyph if the need arises. Like I said, next week will be very telling, one way or another.


That's the point though, you're not mitigating, you're avoidance/stam as far as I can tell. You soak up a bunch of big hits then avoid a few, making your healers always second guess what healing they have to give you.

Really, at least if you don't want to do the Haste thing (which is not for everyone, requires a bit faster reflexes/good rotation), you should at least try Mastery. Make that damage intake much smoother and much easier to predict for healers.

You do know the style of gear you have about one of the worse ones you can have as a Prot Paladin in MoP ? Mastery or Haste are both far superior options.


I'm sure I mentioned this build has been working fine for me. I actually block or avoid entirely most of the hits I have coming in, and with the T15 bonuses it's very rare I'm taking a string of big hits unexpectedly. To say nothing of the array of defensive cooldowns I have available.

I like my build. It works for me, I'm happy to play the way I am now, and occasionally I even get complimented for being a good tank regardless of my gear. Also, I HAVE mastery. I just don't respec for it, 'cause to me it's reducing the chance to not get hit in order to increase the chance of reducing the hit by 30%.

Maybe it's because I stick to LFR as the highest difficult I reach and for Normal or Heroic raiding it wouldn't be enough, but so what? I'm not telling people to mimic my build. I'm just saying what works for me.

I have no problem trying out new seals, techniques, whatever, but I'm not going to rearrange the way I tank just because some people insist it's inferior. Sorry.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820


That's the point though, you're not mitigating, you're avoidance/stam as far as I can tell. You soak up a bunch of big hits then avoid a few, making your healers always second guess what healing they have to give you.

Really, at least if you don't want to do the Haste thing (which is not for everyone, requires a bit faster reflexes/good rotation), you should at least try Mastery. Make that damage intake much smoother and much easier to predict for healers.

You do know the style of gear you have about one of the worse ones you can have as a Prot Paladin in MoP ? Mastery or Haste are both far superior options.


I'm sure I mentioned this build has been working fine for me. I actually block or avoid entirely most of the hits I have coming in, and with the T15 bonuses it's very rare I'm taking a string of big hits unexpectedly. To say nothing of the array of defensive cooldowns I have available.

I like my build. It works for me, I'm happy to play the way I am now, and occasionally I even get complimented for being a good tank regardless of my gear. Also, I HAVE mastery. I just don't respec for it, 'cause to me it's reducing the chance to not get hit in order to increase the chance of reducing the hit by 30%.

Maybe it's because I stick to LFR as the highest difficult I reach and for Normal or Heroic raiding it wouldn't be enough, but so what? I'm not telling people to mimic my build. I'm just saying what works for me.

I have no problem trying out new seals, techniques, whatever, but I'm not going to rearrange the way I tank just because some people insist it's inferior. Sorry.


you realize that all of lfr tot is scaled to a 480 ilvl even for tanks.

any avoidance stam you stack on top of what you'd have theory maxed at 480 is completely wasted.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
you realize that all of lfr tot is scaled to a 480 ilvl even for tanks.

any avoidance stam you stack on top of what you'd have theory maxed at 480 is completely wasted.


The way I see it, having more stamina/avoidance than a 480 tank should have for a 480-specced instance is a good thing. Makes me that much harder to kill, which is a handy skill for a tank.

I'm not trying to be the best tank that ever was. I'm good at what I do already. Being harder to kill by stats alone, on top of my knowledge of the fights, just makes the groups run smoother, makes the other raiders hap....er, less complainy, and keeps me from having to stress out during every fight.

Failing to see a problem here.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820
in order to gain 10-11 percent avoidance over a haste or mastery geared pally, you do less damage, have less sotr covered, smaller sotr reductions, and less ss ticks.

without a doubt even a minimal amount of theory crafting will show that you take as much damage if not more over the course of a fight, that damage isn't as smooth, and your dps is severely gimped.

that's the problem.

is it successful? of course it can be. you only need 480 to complete the entire lfr.
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97 Human Paladin
16535
in order to gain 10-11 percent avoidance over a haste or mastery geared pally, you do less damage, have less sotr covered, smaller sotr reductions, and less ss ticks.

without a doubt even a minimal amount of theory crafting will show that you take as much damage if not more over the course of a fight, that damage isn't as smooth, and your dps is severely gimped.

that's the problem.

is it successful? of course it can be. you only need 480 to complete the entire lfr.


If it's successful, then what's the problem again? Isn't that the point - the get to the end successfully?

If the Siege of Orgrimmar raid kicks my butt next patch, then I'll try adjusting my build and strategy to adapt. Otherwise, why fix what ain't broke?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4820
that's fine that it works for you.
the point that people are making is that it's not the most efficient nor the smoothest build you can have from a healers perspective.

the other thing is that I seriously doubt that anybody can go from a high haste build and decide it wasn't for them.

The difference in play and interaction is so much better once your gcd is down. It goes beyond success as a metric.

If you really enjoy watching timers countdown and staring at your screen for half the fight more power to you...but there's no way anyone has ever tried a high haste build and decided they didn't like it.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14895
The way I see it, having more stamina/avoidance than a 480 tank should have for a 480-specced instance is a good thing. Makes me that much harder to kill, which is a handy skill for a tank.
Yes, for sure, having more stam and more avoidance does make you harder to kill. HOWEVER, having more haste or more mastery will make you even harder to kill than more stam or avoidance would.

You say that you're not telling anyone to do what you do, but that's EXACTLY what you did in another thread. If you want to be stubborn and gear how you feel like even though you know it's not optimal then that's fine, that's your decision. But you should not be giving people advice that directly contradicts known facts.

When people come asking for advice, they want to know the best methods, the best stats, the best seal, etc. Sure there's room for personal opinion and preference, but it needs to be done objectively with better validation than "this works in LFR".
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