How is ele going under the radar?

90 Dwarf Shaman
10940
elley has issues

same as dps shamans always have

live by the proc, die by the proc

they need their burst toned down, sustained tuned up and a more rounded defensive/CC toolkit.
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90 Undead Rogue
8745
They need to nerf the random burst, but give eles something else to be viable, with some sustained. Atm, ele has nothing but surge procs.


i played ele in 5.2 before the lava burst buff and it was perfectly fine, the burst is still fantastic even without echo
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48 Dwarf Shaman
11550
Elemental is overpowered because I said so
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Tremor totem
Slow/root
Nock back
Healing surge/ healing tide totem
Grounding totem
Potential aoe freedom talent.
Instant hex
Offensive dispels

Yes almost 0 utility.


Those 27k Healing Surges sure are awesome, eh? Like how I have to spam cast for more than 8 seconds to cover 50% of my HP.

And Healing Tide? It ticks for like 10k at best.

Definitely not on the same level of off-healing from the other hybrids.

And by the way, If they have the AoE freedom, they don't have the root which you mentioned.

I also hope you realize that in order to get instant Hex, that means no EoE, which is where most of the RNG QQ is coming from.

Offensive dispel sure is nice though.

Oh, and you forgot that we have curse dispel.
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90 Pandaren Monk
18100
07/07/2013 05:41 AMPosted by Mungoh
5 stack tfb was rng. why was it nerfed?


5 stack tfb was unstoppable unless you killed the Warrior. You can literally cut the Ele damage by 50% if you just cleanse Flame Shock. Or you can interrupt LvB/EB. Because you aren't getting globaled without at least one hard cast, which relies on a proc during the cast, and then you pray for even more procs off of that cast.

Or you could also learn what the UE animation looks like so you know when the Ele is about to try to hit you hard, and you can react accordingly. I almost never get hit by a UE LvB/EB from another Ele, because I know what UE looks like. I know to interrupt/ground/LoS their next spell.


Flame shock has a 6 second CD, dispel has an 8 second CD, and.... well CC exists and needs to be dispelled.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10320
Flame shock has a 6 second CD, dispel has an 8 second CD, and.... well CC exists and needs to be dispelled.


Well, from ele standing point, healer doesnt need to really spend any dispels on cc vs shamans, because there are none.

Also with how flame shock is, keeping dots on all 3 targets is close to impossible, it means you have to overextend, and many times, people will just consistently los, including healer, meaning that flame shocking off cd is close to impossible.

You will find it quite common for teams to turtle, everyone does it vs everyone, its not an open field, and there are plenty resets which cause all of them to fall off if not dispelled.

Not to mention ele is going to eat a lot of cc in between, and will have to los him/her self.

Also flame shock does not proc any lava surges, vs any sort of absorbs. Therefore ele is usually best with a aff lock or sp, so the spread pressure can overcome all the shields/absorbs.

Ele shamans can be shut down quite effectively on paper, but in practice, its hard, because even one flame shock, can proc some random x3 lava surges.

The problem lies with that, its the only dmg ele has. Like i said before, they need to nerf the rng element, or make it controllable, without happening so much, but with more sustained, predictable dmg.
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91 Night Elf Rogue
12510
You are aware that Lava surge is casted? the proced lava surges are completely RNG, so I am not sure you can 100% compare it to what mages were doing.

The proced lava surges are bugged on the ptr at the moment, it's 100% proc rate.
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90 Human Paladin
7905
Look at all these Shamans running to protect the ridiculousness of their class.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7215
Enh > ele

No.
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90 Human Mage
6790
I love all the "Ele isn't OP if you are shutting us down 100% of the time. You have to do that to an ele. So we aren't OP"

So a class isn't OP because if you CC him constantly he can't kill you in seconds? I think the killing you in seconds is what is OP. You can CC anyone constantly, and I don't know of another class that can deal so much damage as fast and as regularly as Ele.
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07/08/2013 03:21 AMPosted by Maikox
Flame shock has a 6 second CD, dispel has an 8 second CD, and.... well CC exists and needs to be dispelled.


Well, from ele standing point, healer doesnt need to really spend any dispels on cc vs shamans, because there are none.



So many of my Flame Shocks go undispelled in arena, it's not even funny.

I really think people just don't understand how much that really kills our DPS. We get no instant Lava Burst without Flame Shock, and the LvB that we do hard-cast, will hit for 50% less damage.

Yes the CD on Flame Shock is shorter than the dispel CD, but shocks also share a CD, so healers have a chance to get caught up when we have to use another shock.

I understand that it can be a problem to cleanse it when the Ele is running with Aff, or SPriest, but in almost any other situation, I'm giving Flame Shock priority over the poly/fear/root.

It's like this:

Partner1 can get cleansed out of the CC, while Partner2 dies from a UE LvB waiting for the dispel CD

OR

Partner1 sits the full CC, while Partner2 gets cleansed, and takes 50% less damage from the Ele, AND removes the Ele RNG.

Also with how flame shock is, keeping dots on all 3 targets is close to impossible, it means you have to overextend, and many times, people will just consistently los, including healer, meaning that flame shocking off cd is close to impossible.

You will find it quite common for teams to turtle, everyone does it vs everyone, its not an open field, and there are plenty resets which cause all of them to fall off if not dispelled.

Not to mention ele is going to eat a lot of cc in between, and will have to los him/her self.

Also flame shock does not proc any lava surges, vs any sort of absorbs. Therefore ele is usually best with a aff lock or sp, so the spread pressure can overcome all the shields/absorbs.

Ele shamans can be shut down quite effectively on paper, but in practice, its hard, because even one flame shock, can proc some random x3 lava surges.

The problem lies with that, its the only dmg ele has. Like i said before, they need to nerf the rng element, or make it controllable, without happening so much, but with more sustained, predictable dmg.



Exactly.
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90 Human Warlock
17400
Don't you dare compare us to this slightly darker blue, we light blues are superior.


are you still mad there aren't any nerf mages threads? poor goon... we still love you bro
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
0
If this many people honestly think a 6sec cd flame shock should take priority over cc for dispels then god help us all...

I'm sorry but are some of you on drugs?

HOW IN THE WORLD IS A 2VS3 SITUATION BETTER THAN A 3VS3 with a flame shock up(bc you can't dispell every flame shock anyways)LOL?? Are people really this stupid?

Most eles run with a lock or Mage so don't say there is nothing to dispell

Edit: for people who don't know the answer, there is never a time in a 3's match where 2vs3 is better than 3vs3. Ele shamans please do not tell healers how to play.
Edited by Requital on 7/8/2013 1:32 PM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
16710
All of you screaming Nerf Ele nerf ele but what else i can do without lava burst procs ?

Lightning bolt hit for 15-17k on pvp geared tergets and has 2 secs cast time .... i dont mind casting spell...i actualy love casting spells but they if they do no dmg whats the point in this spec ?

I am all in for nerfing instant burst but blizz cant do it bfo reworking the spec and giving it propper tools which every other caster has.
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If this many people honestly think a 6sec cd flame shock should take priority over cc for dispels then god help us all...

I'm sorry but are some of you on drugs?

HOW IN THE WORLD IS A 2VS3 SITUATION BETTER THAN A 3VS3 with a flame shock up(bc you can't dispell every flame shock anyways)LOL?? Are people really this stupid?

Most eles run with a lock or Mage so don't say there is nothing to dispell

Edit: for people who don't know the answer, there is never a time in a 3's match where 2vs3 is better than 3vs3. Ele shamans please do not tell healers how to play.


Well considering that I also play a healer, and have almost 0 problems with Ele, I'm okay with telling other healers how to play.

Where did I ever say that 2 vs 3 is better than 3 vs 3? Your comprehension skill are abhorrent.

I'll lay it out for you again.

Partner1 can get cleansed out of the CC, while Partner2 dies from a UE LvB waiting for the dispel CD. (THIS IS A 2v3 SITUATION)

OR

Partner1 sits the full CC, while Partner2 gets cleansed, and takes 50% less damage from the Ele, AND removes the Ele RNG. (THIS IS A 3v3 SITUATION)

The point in dispelling the Flame Shock is so that the game stays 3 vs 3.

No sh*t you can't dispel it on CD, but Ele isn't also reapplying it every CD. We have other shocks to use, and they all share a CD.

If your healer cleanses Flame Shock while I'm having to off-heal to help with pressure, it's more important for me to spend that global on a heal than on reapplying Flame Shock.

Or heck, if your healer cleanses it and then I immediately get CC, that gives time to for the CD on dispel to reset before I Flame Shock again.
Edited by Mungoh on 7/8/2013 7:18 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Monk
7745
so that's what happened... earlier today i got hit with 5 lava bursts in a row from a single ele sham in a random bg. each ranging from 45-75k, all of which got redirected back at him with tok when i saw him pop cds. lol@obliviousplayers
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90 Undead Warlock
10080
It's like this:

Partner1 can get cleansed out of the CC, while Partner2 dies from a UE LvB waiting for the dispel CD

OR

Partner1 sits the full CC, while Partner2 gets cleansed, and takes 50% less damage from the Ele, AND removes the Ele RNG.


You just perfectly laid out the argument why ele is too strong, yet you're somehow making some OTHER point? The simple fact that dispelling flame shock (a 5s cooldown, DR-less instant-cast ability) is more important than some full-duration CCs with cast-times and DR that the game has been (theoretically) balanced around for ages should tell you something about why the current Ele design is all-of-a-sudden overpowered.

Without an Ele, it's already the case that when somebody sits a full poly, things are going to die or take significant pressure. Now throw in a 5-sec repeatable instant additional ability that's MORE important to dispel? Really...

The best comparison to something that was previously overpowered is Frost Bomb pre-nerf. It was MORE important to dispel frost bombs than it was to dispel poly. But flame shock is instant, has a shorter cooldown, and you don't have to use cooldowns before you actually get procs. With frostbomb, you had to COMMIT to using CDs before you even casted the bomb to get benefit from them, which at least allowed a 4-5 second window where you blatantly telegraphed to your opponents that !@#$'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN. The current situation with Ele isn't as reliable as Frost Bomb was, but it's a fair bit harder to deal with. There's less advance warning, and there are less available outs.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9140

The best comparison to something that was previously overpowered is Frost Bomb pre-nerf. It was MORE important to dispel frost bombs than it was to dispel poly. But flame shock is instant, has a shorter cooldown, and you don't have to use cooldowns before you actually get procs. With frostbomb, you had to COMMIT to using CDs before you even casted the bomb to get benefit from them, which at least allowed a 4-5 second window where you blatantly telegraphed to your opponents that !@#$'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN. The current situation with Ele isn't as reliable as Frost Bomb was, but it's a fair bit harder to deal with. There's less advance warning, and there are less available outs.


Someone quote this five more times.

/thread.
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