Forced Swap Moves Damage

100 Human Death Knight
16950
If my broom misses, or you avoid the swap, I lose. No matter what, I lose.

Even if it hits every time, even if I play perfectly, I still lose sometimes.

Forced swap moves are fine, stop crying.


A forced swap that goes 1st is guaranteed free damage at no cost. If it misses, you're not really far behind (his move might miss just as well as yours). You just don't start with a big advantage in damage.

I think swap moves are cheesy personally. In their current implementation. But that's just me.

Not saying it's good or bad; just pointing that out.
Edited by Naxa on 7/8/2013 6:40 AM PDT
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100 Orc Shaman
24425
Just do what pokemon does.... force you to go second!
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90 Goblin Hunter
7715
Just do what pokemon does.... force you to go second!


Pokemon also lets you one-shot every pet in the game w/ the right counter.

Wanna go that route?
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100 Undead Warlock
14625
If my broom misses, or you avoid the swap, I lose. No matter what, I lose.

Even if it hits every time, even if I play perfectly, I still lose sometimes.

Forced swap moves are fine, stop crying.


This is usually the case. I run all sorts of teams, and my swap team is in a good spot (winning about 60 to 75%), but if I miss a swap, the team loses about 90% of the time.

Swap teams are nice, but they aren't impossible to beat by any stretch. The damage on most swap pets is generally only medium grade anyway, the swap move usually always being their biggest. So, nerfing their most damaging and useful mechanic is really just a way to gimp the concept so you don't have to see it anymore.

Want to really make swap teams less potent, update the critter racial to be immune to swaps. It would bring an influx of useful pets into the game that are basically just shelf models right now anyway. Other than an occassional rabbit, when was the last time you really saw a critter?
Edited by Khannock on 7/8/2013 1:48 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
5515
Pokemon also lets you one-shot every pet in the game w/ the right counter.

Wanna go that route?


Sure why not? This game is really a direct knock off of Pokemon anyways, and don't even try to say it isn't.

Plus, even in Pokemon, when you PvP and metagame with all legendaries, both opponents can OHK and there are plenty of hard counters for pokemon and wow pet battle OHK pets so complaining about OHK moves are a mute point.
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84 Pandaren Monk
14365
I wholeheartedly agree...these moves interrupt an enemy attack (abilities that do so are worth as much as any regular attack with similar hit chance) AND cancel out a racial advantage AND interrupt any chain strategies....AND do a decent amount of damage.

It's too much all in one tight package.

"always goes last" would be a good trade-off, or even just make the swap itself occur at the end of the round rather than immediately.
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100 Troll Druid
16155
look at these ballers thinking pokemon battle is all OHKO.

unless it's super effective or stat boosted, it's mostly 2~3 hit KOs.
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90 Undead Rogue
4535
I think they need to create a nice creative counter to force swaps. Because if you don't bring a very good counter, most pets will just get outplayed right away. Why not give more pets out there mudslide and have it block foced swaps, or have arcane winds also block forced swaps? Making mudslide a surge type of move so it goes first will also insure that it is a counter vs fast swappers...

I've ran an all swap team before, they can be countered by very few pets. But it's not very balanced, especially with Fiendish Imp (333 speed) who is only countered by a crawling claw.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
13640
look at these ballers thinking pokemon battle is all OHKO.

unless it's super effective or stat boosted, it's mostly 2~3 hit KOs.


Why would you have a pet out that isn't super effective against the enemy?

l2pokemon
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90 Goblin Hunter
7715
Why would you have a pet out that isn't super effective against the enemy?


For serious. <.<
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things that can get bast the sweep, nethergate or deathgrip:

shield, dig, fly,

always pack one it is a counter against a swapper.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20640
07/09/2013 04:50 PMPosted by Triggers
Why would you have a pet out that isn't super effective against the enemy?


For serious. <.<


Tangela is probably talking about playing versus human players, who can swap just as easily as you can.
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90 Goblin Hunter
7715
Tangela is probably talking about playing versus human players, who can swap just as easily as you can.


So was I.

I was known as the "Queen of Viridian" for a time in PokeMMO. :D
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94 Blood Elf Priest
11350
I've never pet pvped, and Im sorry this is not really related to the topic. Could someone be as kind as to explain why swap is very useful?
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90 Dwarf Priest
10060
You can't always have a pet out that is super effective against the enemy. It costs you a full turn of damage in a damage race. Most pets die in 3-4 attacks, so one lost turn is 1/4 of a pet's usefulness wasted to gain 50% more damage. Unless you are going to both resists their attacks AND have a hard hitting counter move OR cheap !@# fast stuns (like forced swaps) to gain extra turns, switching over and over is just going to cost you games.
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100 Troll Druid
16155
Why would you have a pet out that isn't super effective against the enemy?

l2pokemon


even if it's super effective, it heavily relies on attack boosting items like life orb, choice items, or relies on STAB boost to one shot someone.

If it's *just* super effective, it's 2 ~ 3 hit KO in most case. (unless it's a fight between two glass cannons)
Edited by Tangla on 7/10/2013 1:35 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20640
I've never pet pvped, and Im sorry this is not really related to the topic. Could someone be as kind as to explain why swap is very useful?


If you go first when you force swap an opponent's pet, you do a large amount of damage, ruin whatever combo they were building, and force them to miss a turn.
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1 Human Paladin
0
Yeah, regardless of what else happens to these moves, they need to give Resilient to pets (and be stopped by Resilient) and should be stopped by the Critter passive too.

I like the idea of Critters having less than ideal stats and less than powerful movesets with a passive that makes them hard to stop and control. It makes them very unique because the other 9 families are primarily about power.


I think that's a good idea to add that ability to critters.

I disagree with a resilience buff to pets that got swapped out though. That weakens swapping too much. I think just adding an extra round cd to the death grip and nether gate is enough. The problem with going up against teams that swap is that they can do it *so frequently* to break up attacks and lock pets out. They can do a lot of damage to inactive pets and heal themselves out of combat on top of this. The spider and imp are such a good complement for this. I think the damage should stay the same, all swaps should have a 100% accuracy base value, but just extend the cd 1 round. That would be a significant nerf to swappers without breaking them like they did to FFF. These pets aren't nearly as scary when their swap is on cd.

I really hate the accuracy system, nothing ruins a good, competitive match more (for both players) than a highly accurate move at a critical point in time missing...then missing again...then maybe missing again.
Edited by Boerert on 7/11/2013 10:21 AM PDT
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