Anyone have any luck Vs DKs?

100 Blood Elf Paladin
5375
This is just 1vs1 - no partner. He is by FAR, the hardest person I have EVER dueled in the entire game. I've tried every suggestion here, and only managed to beat him once on pure luck, our fights usually end with him at 50-90% health.

Anything I can do to record our fights, I want you to see it for yourself.

I can't slow him - he has a talent for that. I can't stun him, he knows the proper timing to use his shield (or has trinket up) I can't out run him - he'll steal freedom grip me back. The pressure he puts on is unbelievable, it puts me on the defense within X seconds of the fight. I can't get close, I can't run - I really don't know what to do.

You need to see it for yourself.


Your problem is you're using burden of guilt, not using glyph of turn evil, and you're using execution sentence. The 30 second cooldown stun will definitely help you get more up-time on him, and we won't able to stop it as much. Using glyph of turn evil will give you an instant stun for eight seconds when he uses lichborne to heal which will allow you to heal as well, and holy prism will give you more damage and healing than execution sentence.

If you're going to burst on him something I've found useful was seal of insight, it helps eat through his necrotics and while bursting you will probably find yourself actually being healed instead of it being absorbed.

I recommend that you get an addon to tell you what moves he uses, GladiatorlosSA (or something like that) is an excellent addon as it tells you what cooldowns, and trinkets they've used through an audio voice system. Alternatively, get deadly PvP mods. it's a text display addon to tell you what cooldown he uses. Now that you have either one of these you should be able to time your stuff right.

And about the talent you mentioned, most dk's don't used that talent, and it's a 30 second cooldown that lasts for 6 seconds so I don't see why you can't slow him? He can only steal freedom once every minute and within a minute you should be bale to freedom at least four times with clemency. And besides, you also have cleanse and emancipate to get rid of his slows. And since you can do all that you could switch to seal of justice and kite him and if you get to judgment him three times you get an instant heal flash of light, a 3 point WoG and you could use holy prism on yourself. For me that's 100k+ heal without necrotics on being stacked on you.

Wait until he's used anti magic shell to burst on him, and do not stun him during icebound fortitude. Use blinding light to stun him and heal up which may force him to trinket, he may have more than one depending on what he speced into at his tier 6 talents. If he uses remorseless winter get the heck out of there to avoid being stunned. You can use Divine Protection against his frost strikes, so when you see he has a near full bar of runic power use it, if you want to get some heals off use devotion aura and heal up and he wont be able to interrupt you. But since he has the talent to get rid of movement impairing effects use to to get rid of his silence instead of trinketing it, then heal up or something.

Other than all of that keep inquisition up, cleanse is diseases as much as you can and try your best to stay alive until you've forced him to use his magic shell and then burst him down. With long arm of the law and seal of justice along with emancipate and freedom you should be able to kite him. It will take lots of practice to beat him if you've had trouble in the past so if you keep losing don't give up, keep trying new things.

Good luck!
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100 Human Paladin
4325
I'm also wearing PVE gear - I was doing LFR last night

Normal Talents are

Long Arm (Pursuit for BGs)
Fist of Justice / Burden (Cap the flag and or Ranged classes)
Selfless healer
Clemancy for duels (Unbreakable for BGS0
Holy Avenger (SW for ranged classes)
Holy Prism

My talents, my gear and eveything else is on point - In you're on tonight, I will GLADLY add you to a party just to see how well your theory plays out - I'm going to bet not well, considering he claims to have never lost to any Paladin.
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100 Human Paladin
4325
It has to be a fluke - I've been burning DK's all week trying to figure it out - Outside of blood presence they are useless.
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100 Pandaren Rogue
9915
Maybe...just maybe...He's good at his class? Call me crazy but things like that happen every now and then.
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100 Human Paladin
4325
Maybe...just maybe...He's good at his class? Call me crazy but things like that happen every now and then.


Already established that back 1 page - but thanks for the insight.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5375
It all depends whether he's frost or unholy too, my "theory" was more based on frost, unholy will always have their pet on you and will have stronger necrotics on you and are definitely harder to defeat as a paladin but it`s still quite possible. I forget if you can fear their pets or not, I believe you can, try it when he transforms his pet and in-between because of the short cooldown. Some of his cc comes from his pet as well.

It has to be a fluke - I've been burning DK's all week trying to figure it out - Outside of blood presence they are useless.


It may be harder to kill them in blood presence but they are definitely more useful in their proper presence.
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100 Orc Death Knight
18520
All DKs are going to sit in blood presence when being attacked, being in your DPS presence is far inferior in a 1v1 situation or when you're being trained (which is what a 1v1/duel is). The only time they use the correct DPS presence is when they aren't being attacked.

Unholy is going to be harder than frost, frost should be rather easy.

Just keep kiting and keep healing yourself. Play like a complete sissy and wait until they blow enough CDs for you to get an opening. You should run faster than them and he won't be able to keep up with you if you keep yourself dispelled. DKs have good snaring capability but it costs resources to do it, you should be able to keep yourself clean of snares faster than he can realistically apply them.

Stunning them is going to cause an immediate reaction in either trinket, desecrated ground or IBF. Force two of them and then on the third go in for the kill with all of your CDs. You'll easily live for 30 seconds to which you're stun should come up again and that should be the end of him.

Most ret paladins play far too aggressive. Just play passively, wait for an opening and slam him with your CDs going. With your CDs up they have no choice but to play as defensive as possible and if you've already baited CDs you're likely going to kill them. Get lucky and have good burst and you should demolish them.

Have to play to your specs strengths which is high sustain and massive burst damage.

Having him steal valuable things with dark sim means you need to play better. You don't want to give them HoJ, bubble or anything valuable.
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100 Human Paladin
4325
All DKs are going to sit in blood presence when being attacked, being in your DPS presence is far inferior in a 1v1 situation or when you're being trained (which is what a 1v1/duel is). The only time they use the correct DPS presence is when they aren't being attacked.

Unholy is going to be harder than frost, frost should be rather easy.

Just keep kiting and keep healing yourself. Play like a complete sissy and wait until they blow enough CDs for you to get an opening. You should run faster than them and he won't be able to keep up with you if you keep yourself dispelled. DKs have good snaring capability but it costs resources to do it, you should be able to keep yourself clean of snares faster than he can realistically apply them.

Stunning them is going to cause an immediate reaction in either trinket, desecrated ground or IBF. Force two of them and then on the third go in for the kill with all of your CDs. You'll easily live for 30 seconds to which you're stun should come up again and that should be the end of him.

Most ret paladins play far too aggressive. Just play passively, wait for an opening and slam him with your CDs going. With your CDs up they have no choice but to play as defensive as possible and if you've already baited CDs you're likely going to kill them. Get lucky and have good burst and you should demolish them.

Have to play to your specs strengths which is high sustain and massive burst damage.

Having him steal valuable things with dark sim means you need to play better. You don't want to give them HoJ, bubble or anything valuable.


WOW- Absolutely insightful, I usually try to go in hot and I just don't stand a chance going toe to toe with him, but I also spend most of the fight playing defense and trying to keep his pet off. Thanks for the suggestion everyone, I know there is a way to win, I'm working on finding it.
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100 Human Paladin
4325
It all depends whether he's frost or unholy too, my "theory" was more based on frost, unholy will always have their pet on you and will have stronger necrotics on you and are definitely harder to defeat as a paladin but it`s still quite possible. I forget if you can fear their pets or not, I believe you can, try it when he transforms his pet and in-between because of the short cooldown. Some of his cc comes from his pet as well.

It has to be a fluke - I've been burning DK's all week trying to figure it out - Outside of blood presence they are useless.


It may be harder to kill them in blood presence but they are definitely more useful in their proper presence.


Thanks for the add-on suggestions, I run 3 total so far - healers have to die - BG Targets - and one to track INQ. That's pretty much it.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18550
TellMeWhen is a great addon, allowing you to track buffs/debuffs on your target, so you know when they're bursting, crowd controlled, etc...couldn't PvP without it. You can set it to notify you whenever he's got something up you want to track (like Dark Sim).
Edited by Trystero on 7/21/2013 3:52 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5375
As said above we're paladins, not warriors, in most 1 v 1 situations we don't just run straight up and spam CS, judgement, exorcism etc. Use the holy power on word of glories and inquisition until you can burst will definitely help. It's like arenas, if I'm running double dps a lot of the time I'm just keeping my partner and I alive and providing freedoms, stuns and the damage I can afford while throwing word of glories, but when burst comes that's when we play aggressive. Take a good look at his talents and see what he has and what he doesn't and adjust your play. He will have 2 trinkets already, and maybe a 3rd depending on this last talent tier. And as I said before try seal of insight, it's definitely underrated and has actually saved my life in many 1 v 1 situations!
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100 Human Paladin
4325
TellMeWhen is a great addon, allowing you to track buffs/debuffs on your target, so you know when they're bursting, crowd controlled, etc...couldn't PvP without it. You can set it to notify you whenever he's got something up you want to track (like Dark Sim).

I'm using TellMeWhen to tack Inq - it has honestly helped a ton, I don't know how I ever played without it. I wasn't aware it could help me track his buffs....

And Anaik, I'm going to give Insight another go - then blow him up when I get the chance. It's just that UH+Blood Pres can put on so much pressure, 2 seconds of contact and you're already at half health. Not to mention conversion...
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5375
07/21/2013 04:34 PMPosted by Amuroraye
TellMeWhen is a great addon, allowing you to track buffs/debuffs on your target, so you know when they're bursting, crowd controlled, etc...couldn't PvP without it. You can set it to notify you whenever he's got something up you want to track (like Dark Sim).

I'm using TellMeWhen to tack Inq - it has honestly helped a ton, I don't know how I ever played without it. I wasn't aware it could help me track his buffs....

And Anaik, I'm going to give Insight another go - then blow him up when I get the chance. It's just that UH+Blood Pres can put on so much pressure, 2 seconds of contact and you're already at half health. Not to mention conversion...


Unholy is definitely the harder dk spec to 1 v 1 so no doubt it will be hard, but I'm sure after some practice you'll get it. If there's anything else you have some questions about let me know! And let me know how it goes.
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07/19/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Amuroraye
I think Ret has an easier time with DKs than most other classes, 2nd maybe only to Ferals.

No, I can beat ferals - DK's sitting in blood presence cutting my DPS to less than half, negating my heals and healing back up to full while not doing a damn thing - I have a problem with.

And for the last time - Burden doesn't work, DK's can't be slowed, can spell steal freedom and have Deathgrip.


Well I mean Ferals also do well vs. DKs. Anyways... even if he steals your freedom (which he shouldn't b/c you can avoid that), you should always be running faster than him with Long Arm of a the law and should be able to get decent distance when Judgment is on cooldown. Use Fists of Justice instead of Burden. If he slows/roots you, don't forget you have Emancipate to free yourself with no cooldown. Keep him at range, using ranged attacks, keep kiting, Fear him during Lichborne and/or Fear the pet if he's unholy. Only go in for the Wings/Holy Avenger burst when he's in a Fists stun and you know his trinket/IBF is on cooldown so you can be free to burst him down. You're ranged attacks will probably have taken him low enough at that point so that you can finish him off in that crucial stun. Again, you'll need Fists of Justice for this to work. Don't forget to cleanse his disease too and health yourself with instants.

Oh, and give them something totally useless to steal from you... like Cleanse. This guy is simply outplaying you man. Equal gear/equal skill Ret should win the fight if talented correctly.

Also, post that video.
Edited by Aeonias on 7/21/2013 7:27 PM PDT
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