Resto Druid Stat Priority

90 Worgen Druid
SnP
11790
I'm not necessarily looking for a critique on my stats, but more of a stat discussion for resto druid. I am 6/13 heroic, and can 2 heal most fights. Some are 3 healed just for added security. But, I'm debating about trying to go for the next haste break point, and am curios as to what others have done. I've looked at several different druids and they seem to be all over the board in terms of where their spirit is, and whether they went for the 6k haste, or stayed with mastery. Personally, I would like to drop the crit, and if I did that, I could push haste easier, but probably wont until I can do that.

One way or the other doesn't seem to stand out, or at least what I can tell, so what are people's thoughts?
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90 Troll Druid
6795
6k haste BP is trash, never take it and no top resto druid probably is. 3043 or 13k once ur 540-545 ilvl. It scales ur meta and HLG so you don't need as much spirit and the massive gains through the haste more than make up for the loss in mastery in most cases, although some top druids still prefer the heavy mastery build.

Taken from EJ

Let's assume for now that 10100 haste comes all the expense of mastery. That's 21% mastery lost, on top of a baseline of about 20% additive. Flat loss of ~14.9% healing. Tradeoff is basically the same with or without Amp trinket by the way (although in practice trinket will favor pulling points out of Spirit).

Going from 3043 to 13163 healing adds, in terms of healing per cast:
16% to Rejuv (7 ticks instead of 6, including instant tick)
25% to WG and Efflo (10 ticks instead of 8)
23.5% to Lifebloom HoT (21 ticks instead of 17). Or if you think Lifebloom is better viewed as a smooth increase, it will continuously tick 22.1% faster.
A few various smaller gains (unglyphed RG, Tranquility--slight net losses after losing mastery).

And finally, 22.1% faster casting of everything besides Rejuv. I've always tended not to value this highly but it's obviously positive.

The clear losses are Swiftmend size and NS size. Overall though this seems like a strong option for anyone who can reasonably reach it.

http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130799-resto_mists_pandaria_5_3_a/p56/
Edited by Bjpenn on 7/22/2013 1:01 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
10000
Most druids will not tell you to actively go for the 6k haste breakpoint if you can reforge out of enough haste to be reasonably close to 3043 haste. It's arguably competitive, but probably not optimal. However, if you can't drop haste to 3043 (which is a problem for some of the more geared druids with a lot of native haste), it's better to go for 6659 than to sit at something like 4k.

Looking into next tier, we'll probably be going for the rejuv+2 haste breakpoint at 13163 haste. Some druids are already playing with it now, and have been reporting that it seems good, though mana is somewhat more limiting.

Spirit is and has always been personal preference.
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90 Troll Druid
6795
Much more eloquently delivered than I that's for sure, thanks orange. How do you like it personally? I see the math and I'm very excited to try it, so I always ask people about their experiences.

Edit: See on EJ you briefly spoke about it. Do you think you will prefer it over high mastery build now that you're at a pretty decent level of spirit after the upgrades you got this week?
Edited by Bjpenn on 7/22/2013 1:33 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
SnP
11790
Right, I'll probably end up having to go for the 6652 because I will get my legendary cloak this week and it will give me to much haste to reforge out of. But, according to math, I'll only lose 3.7% mastery, which isn't terrible considering the haste I will gain. How do you like the 13k break point? Or have you had a chance to try it out yet?
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90 Troll Druid
10000
[Edit: this is mostly in response to 13k breakpoint]

Hmm. Well. I've always enjoyed having a faster cast time than 3043 haste offers, especially in 10m raids (and even more so if the group is less than stellar. I actually sat at 6652/6659 haste when this wasn't my raiding main and was mostly going into groups from trade chat). The healing environment is pretty different in 25 where I can spend more of my time spreading rejuvs rather than worrying about the tank and healing spot damage reactively.

So in that regard (cast times) it's kind of nice, although probably ultimately unnecessary for my current raiding situation. I'm sort of ambivalent about it in general, though, in terms of feel. I do think it's higher throughput and I haven't run myself OoM to the point of uselessness yet, which is why I've continued to use it.

Given the incoming change to eliminate double-dipping on mushrooms, I don't think I'll be too interested in ever going back to 3043 haste + high mastery next tier. If and when we drop t15 4pc, though, rejuv+2 will also lose a bit of value. Going back into progression might make mana issues arise, so I won't discount the possibility of dropping back down to 6659 in favor of additional spirit.
Edited by Frozenorange on 7/22/2013 2:09 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11195
You don't want to go for 13163 unless you're at least close to 540, have Leg meta and HLG. HLG makes up for some spirit loss because of the increased proc rates at that haste level.

I'll agree with Frozen that you should go for 6652 only if you'e swimming in haste and you're not exactly at the point where 13163 is viable.

Personally I believe that a high spirit 3043 build with 4pc t15 is more optimal in terms of sheer throughput compared to a high mastery 3043 build. You can just spam rejuv till your eyes bleed. Not efficient but when you become a self mana-battery it doesn't even matter. But both high mastery high spirit builds are very viable.

But compared to 13163 I don't think either compare. This is from a 10m perspective of course so your mileage may vary. I haven't felt this good about a build in a very long time.
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90 Troll Druid
6795
I find it interesting you mention that t15 4 piece because as it stands I don't even know when I'll be dropping mine ( assuming I have the full heroic 4 piece by 5.4 ). The t16 4 piece is just so lackluster at best I'm currently wondering whether t16 2 piece & off pieces or t15 4 piece will be better.

I guess your scenario at the end is plausible, but would last at the very longest until we had our hands on that diminishing spirit trinket. I know Innervate is no longer being affected by short term buffs, but even still, I think it will hard to believe we won't be able to have enough mana regen with meta, HLG, and that trinket at the 13k haste BP.
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90 Troll Druid
6795
But compared to 13163 I don't think either compare. This is from a 10m perspective of course so your mileage may vary. I haven't felt this good about a build in a very long time.


Do you raid with a rsham by chance? I know frozen doesn't and maybe that's why he's mentioning he goes fairly close to completely oom on some encounters.
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90 Troll Druid
10000
07/22/2013 02:26 AMPosted by Bjpenn
But compared to 13163 I don't think either compare. This is from a 10m perspective of course so your mileage may vary. I haven't felt this good about a build in a very long time.


Do you raid with a rsham by chance? I know frozen doesn't and maybe that's why he's mentioning he goes fairly close to completely oom on some encounters.


10 and 25 are kind of their own separate worlds. In my 25m experience there are a lot more other healers to snipe your HoTs, so you have to blanket more to look/be competitive, and while i don't 100% care about meters, I'm still relatively new here to this guild so I don't want to look like I'm slacking. That and I'm also trying to prevent mist from having his ego inflate toooooo much.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
07/22/2013 02:26 AMPosted by Bjpenn
But compared to 13163 I don't think either compare. This is from a 10m perspective of course so your mileage may vary. I haven't felt this good about a build in a very long time.


Do you raid with a rsham by chance? I know frozen doesn't and maybe that's why he's mentioning he goes fairly close to completely oom on some encounters.


Nope and Frozen is 25m which obviously plays a role.

I was previously running 15k spi before buffs and trinkets taken into the equation. So I was able to spam Rejuv until the cows came home. I'm not able to do that now, but then again, I don't need to either. But when Lucidity procs that's 4 free rejuvs all hitting with extra tick and ticking faster too boot.

The issue I believe is more a case of faster direct casts than rejuv spamming. With close to 1 sec casts on RG, there is a tendency to over due it. So I adjusted my RG usage for HT since my HTs are less than 2 sec cast time it in my opinion became very viable while saving RG for OoC procs. While the mana between the two is minimal it still is a savings to cast HT whenever possible over RG.

I've also dropped the RG glyph and my RG ticks (4 ticks) certainly close the gap from the mastery loss on that spell. We tend to forget that RG is 60% crit so the majority of our RGs will crit regardless.

I forgot to mention SotF and WG. It's really a powerful AOE with 19 ticks (10970+5%). In fact, once I obtain perhaps the chest off of H Tortos I will most likely grab 13953 for another SotF-WG tick.

And SotF and WG doesn't need to be clunky. One can simply SM>3 WM>WG>rjx3>LB>WMB on heavy aoe phases.
Edited by Trollmendous on 7/22/2013 2:56 AM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
6795
I'm fairly well adjusted to limiting my RG/HT usage, I would almost rather let someone drop on the floor than waste mana on one of those spells outside of OoC / NS. I raid in 25m and I heal strictly within my role. So for that reason, I think I would be well adjusted at the 13k haste BP. I already run what most people would say is very low spirit because I do not have my meta, I just preemptively rejuv without blanketing the entire raid the best I can.

Even with the mastery drop do you think that the glyph is worth it? Most of those ticks certainly go to overheal, no?

Also I saw on EJ later ( after that night we were discussing this on another thread) that it is actually 4900 mastery to make 13k haste bp ideal. But I'm guessing you saw that too because you bumped it back up to 4900 from 4600 lol so all I have to say is Frozen thanks for clarifying their math.

and while i don't 100% care about meters, I'm still relatively new here to this guild so I don't want to look like I'm slacking. That and I'm also trying to prevent mist from having his ego inflate toooooo much.


Totally with you on the first point.. I just started raiding on this toon about 2 months ago in a new guild and I was very very undergeared in the beginning. I've always been at a disadvantage because of that and raiding with 2 discs and a hpal has meant I've really had to try my hardest to squeeze out every ounce of healing for the meters to try to look "good".

Mist is a pretty damn good MW, I wouldn't blame him if his ego was a little high. Looks like next patch you might have a chance to knock him down a peg or two, though.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
@Orsyris -

Honestly, if you're very good at watching/usage of your mana you could easily hit 6652 without any loss to your mastery in your currently equipped gear on armory. In fact you can gain some!

But what you would need to sacrifice from is spirit. IMO at your progression on heroics you shouldn't be hurting for spirit even 2 healing.

So if you're comfy with a little over 9k spirit unbuffed you could do it and it would actually be an increase for you. Spirit is always a personal matter though.

But if that troubles you and you make heavy use of SotF you could always hit 5437 and achieve the same thing. This will be no loss to mastery and drastically less on your current spirit levels.

If I were you I'd most likely try 5437 until you obtain your Leg cloak.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
Even with the mastery drop do you think that the glyph is worth it? Most of those ticks certainly go to overheal, no?


Well that depends. Some fights it certainly won't go OH very often and on others it will but not anymore than your other hots.

Honestly I'd rather have the ticks because in the long run it should work out as more being that RG is based @ 60% crit.

But if we think about what we use RG for, I really think in the 13163 build our extremely fast FH doesn't need the glyph. We glyph for a guaranteed crit but RG is already a 60% chance. Granted, there is a considerable difference when it doesn't crit but that is far fewer overall. We get LS regardless of the glyph for a majority of our RG casts.

The 4 ticks aren't too shabby. With no buffs (other than MotW) mine are hitting for 4784 and help to bridge the gap from the mastery loss.
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90 Troll Druid
6795
07/22/2013 03:32 AMPosted by Trollmendous
Well that depends. Some fights it certainly won't go OH very often and on others it will but not anymore than your other hots.


Fair point, I will probably do the same when the time comes ^_^
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