[PvE] 5.4 and Holy Paladin stat priorities.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
16240
I was looking at the 5.4 patch notes and it looks to me like Blizz is really trying to break the "Mastery > All" status quo. Between the EF nerf (hot component not benefiting from mastery) and the buffs to the lvl 45 talents, it merits a discussion if haste or crit might be overall better for holy or if not if it can still be a viable niche spec.

The argument for haste is the same as before, it's a good throughput stat. Now however, Sanctity of Battle reduces the cooldown on Holy Shock which is great (we all miss T14 4pc, right?).

In 5.3 and really all throughout this expansion, I've considered crit to be the worst PvE holy paladin stat. In 5.4 though it looks to me to be the most appealing one. A high crit build with the new T16 2pc (Infusion of Light also increases the healing done by Holy Light, Divine Light, and Holy Radiance by 25%.) can be a really powerful combination. More crit = more IoL procs = more fast DLs + now they are 25% stronger. On the other hand it could lead to more overhealing / mana drain.

What do you guys think? Anyone have any hard data? While I follow and keep up with the super hardcore theorycrafting, I'm not one for spreadsheets.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
How'd you end up believing Crit is the worst PvE stat?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
The funny thing is crit was a good stat throughout this entire expansion by literally doing nothing.
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90 Human Paladin
15480
Yeah crit is a fine stat.

Think it will be spirit>haste/crit>mastery in 5.4

They are really trying to make SH pretty.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
23305
don't undervalue mastery even if you're not blanket hotting.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
don't undervalue mastery even if you're not blanket hotting.


Yeah...I'm really not sure full haste builds will work with SH. It's a lot of healing to give up from our absorbs.
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
I'm actually wanting to try how a crit > haste build goes with glyph of illumination & very little spirit. I'd probably need to get my legendary meta before trying it though. I have no idea if it will actually work, just wanting to give it a try.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
I'd probably need to get my legendary meta before trying it though


It's pretty good, definitely mana positive but would suggest waiting until you get the LMG. I was able to get up to 32% raid buffed crit. GoI was providing about 5-10% more mana in return over the 10% regen loss.

edit: and as per mastery it the shields at 15 sec going forward unless there is a lot of constant damage they will fall off wasted on anyone besides the tank. Not saying it is going to be bad but SH really favors haste to drop the cd of judgment and shock. On the ptr I was able to knock a sec off of each cd and now the HR is tied to it, it could be pretty nice. You can build HoPo real fast.
Edited by Harpoa on 7/20/2013 8:19 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
Yeah, right now I do go crit>mastery (but currently reforged haste instead of mastery for tortos) and it works pretty well even without the meta. I'm just worried with the loss of seal of insight, my biggest mana gain, I'd have to have the meta for crit with minimal spirit to still be viable for regen.
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90 Tauren Paladin
16565
in the PTR I just didn't see crit being worth anything I mean the majority of my spells crit now and im full mastery build. haste vs. mastery I just don't know which way to go going, full haste build on PTR my spell cast was decreased by .15 and yeah literally that time can be life or death in a raid, but in all reality its not that big a deal compared to a holy light criting for 115k and putting an absorb on your target for 40-45k. this absorb seems to still be the most beneficial. right now I guess we will just have wait for siege to drop live to figure it out. PTR was so buggy, it was hard to make a good determination. but right now im going haste=mastery>>crit. reforging to all crit without raid buffs increased my crit chance by 1.5% and im in all heroic gear minus three pieces. so its either .15 faster cast, 1.5% increased crit, or 13% increased absorb. and we all know what our number heal is after an encounter illuminated healing which is derived from what....... I really don't think the EF nerf is that big a deal a 2-3k absorb every 3 secs isn't nothing, my mana regen right now is at the point where I can cast holy light for free essentially, I mean in combat by the time I cast it my mana regens itself, so I can cast holy light every 2 secs and put a minimum 20-25k absorb on a target so instead of blanketing the raid with EF just blanket the raid with holy lights only if your mastery build, if you are haste build you cant do that your mana doesn't regen fast enough due to cast time
its a tough call but I will say now crit will never be the way to go we are to dependent on haste or mastery. its either haste or mastery
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13190
actually sacred shield is the best by FAR, it now has 3 charges and basically is my #1 "heal"
over my mastery
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100 Human Paladin
18400
actually sacred shield is the best by FAR, it now has 3 charges and basically is my #1 "heal"
over my mastery


That's quite interesting. I've been using EF which is coming out number 1 for me. I tried SH but I find the playstyle feels chaotic and confusing (probably because I haven't practiced it). I'm also slowly adding a bit more haste to my stats (second haste break point so far) and I'm finding it feels quite powerful. My raid is slowly progressing through normals so I haven't been seriously tested yet.

Do you have any logs of you using SS and how it's performing?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11870
Do you have any logs of you using SS and how it's performing?


I was curious myself, so I looked him up.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ip1kvknuzyb2zm45/

He isn't making any records but it seems to be working for him.
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90 Human Paladin
13130
10/02/2013 04:53 AMPosted by Ceresc
Do you have any logs of you using SS and how it's performing?


I was curious myself, so I looked him up.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ip1kvknuzyb2zm45/

He isn't making any records but it seems to be working for him.


They are also three healing everything. I'm curious as to how effective it is in a two heal setup.
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100 Human Paladin
10895
I just got the 2-set and am wondering if any theory crafter balanced the math for crit vs mastery given the huge boost the 2-set puts on HS crits. Right now Im at 7170 haste and the rest to mastery as much as possible.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8640
This thread was almost 2 months old... and was still based on the PTR, don't think it's that relevant any more.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20175
This thread was almost 2 months old... and was still based on the PTR, don't think it's that relevant any more.

Yeah, not relevant.

I personally am doing a SH build where it's int > mastery > crit > > > haste > spirit.
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