Which abilities hit hardest?

100 Blood Elf Paladin
8370
Can anybody tell me which abilities hit hardest to weakest in order please? Just curious.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20210
They hit hardest to weakest very close to our pve priority, with some variation due to actual gear.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
6435
TV w/ 4pc T15 proc > non-proc TV ~ HoW > Exo > CS > Judge.

With a wee bit of variation based on gear.
Edited by Wangbro on 7/23/2013 12:55 PM PDT
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
Exo is now weaker than Judgement, and, thus, bottom priority. Shift occurs somewhere around LFR ToT.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
16465
Exo is now weaker than Judgement, and, thus, bottom priority. Shift occurs somewhere around LFR ToT.
Really? from what I can see exo scales better than judgment, so how can judgment do more damage? According to wowhead's ability formulas:

Exo does ~7k + 67.7% attack power
Judg does 623 + 54.6% spellpower + 32.8% attack power

Now spell power is directly tied to attack power, so 54.6% spellpower is really just another 27.3% attack power. So really judgment does 623 + 60.1% attack power.

So exo should always do more damage than judgment. Unless I'm missing something major.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
07/23/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Pancakê
So exo should always do more damage than judgment.


Yes, and no. I'm not entirely sure as to what, specifically, has caused our priority to shift such that Exo is at the bottom, because it's not due solely to damage-dealt. Reference keeps being made to Sword of Light as the culprit, so do bear in mind that Judgement is in sort of a unique state in that it produces multiple damage packets without mastery - that is in the form of triggering Seal hits. With better weapons, the Seal hit generated by a successful Judgement will get stronger and stronger, producing more damage than Exo by its lonesome is capable of.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17330
Yes, and no. I'm not entirely sure as to what, specifically, has caused our priority to shift such that Exo is at the bottom, because it's not due solely to damage-dealt. Reference keeps being made to Sword of Light as the culprit


I do believe the reasoning over at EJ was that prioritizing Judgement over Exo will in the end result in higher Holy Power generation due too CD conflicts, that on top of Judgement being very close to Exorcism in damage anyway pushed it over.

Sword of Light buff of course is what knocked CS up to the front.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
07/23/2013 03:35 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
higher Holy Power generation


Mmkay. Been a while since I looked at all that good and hard; too much summer heat and electrical minutiae of late has kinda fried my brain.

Still, though, I think the SoL buff in relation to Seal damage should be taken into account with Judgement, as it does increase the damage of that single key-press - much like the same and mastery damage have to be factored in for the true strength of TV or CS to become apparent.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
What about Art of War? Deprioritizing Exorcism means more wasted procs, and it's going to proc more and more often as gear improves.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20210
Judgment scales from sword of light's bonus 2h damage, exorcism doesn't, that's why they scale differently.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
Judgment scales from sword of light's bonus 2h damage, exorcism doesn't, that's why they scale differently.

Last time I saw that come up, it was shown to be untrue. Did Blizzard change it in 5.3?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20210
It could be untrue, but simcraft and exemplar's sheet both calculate based on it being true.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10640
I know it was believed to be true for a while in MMO-Champion's paladin forum because someone there said they tested it and Sword of Light did increase Judgment's damage, but later testing (I tried it myself, even) showed that Judgment was unaffected by Sword of Light. That was during 5.2, I believe.

It's always possible that the Simcraft modeler picked it up from MMO-Champion at the time. *shrug* I'd have to do the test again when I get the chance to see if it's changed since then.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
07/23/2013 04:17 PMPosted by Keten
What about Art of War?


I changed up my rotation last week to suit the newly proposed priority queue and, even with a lot of wasted AoW procs, I saw a distinct DPS increase comparing Jin'rohk kills - granted, it's only one sample of J > Exo and one of Exo > J, but they're the only two logs I have to compare where no gear changed. It was a very small increase overall, but that may be due to some residual muscle memory slapping Exo when I "shouldn't."
Edited by Grôgnárd on 7/23/2013 5:20 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11665
So... is the rotation TV> HoW > CS> J >Exo without wings now? With wings/lust I just spam HoW and J until I have 5hpTV.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
Basically, yes; and with 4pT15, CS trumps J during Wings if you want to gamble for procs.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20210
It's always possible that the Simcraft modeler picked it up from MMO-Champion at the time. *shrug* I'd have to do the test again when I get the chance to see if it's changed since then.


I believe the ret simcraft modeler is now Theck, and neither he nor Exemplar are the type to go read something on mmo-champ and just assume it's right.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
16465
07/23/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Cayse
I believe the ret simcraft modeler is now Theck,
Are you sure he's doing the ret side? I thought he was just handling the prot and general tanking aspect of simc.

Plus, even if he is handling the ret modeling now, he's only just started, and with so much of his focus on getting the prot modeling and TMI sorted out, he probably hasn't done a whole lot to the ret model anyways. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were any bugs/mistakes there before he joined the team that they could still be there.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20210
I believe he is, for the reason that Balhale wasn't doing it anymore and the ret and prot models just aren't really that different.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14455
07/23/2013 07:15 PMPosted by Pancakê
I believe the ret simcraft modeler is now Theck,
Are you sure he's doing the ret side?


Theck officially picked up the Ret module in...late May, I think, or early in June - sometime after Balahale disappeared, but fairly recently. In that short time, Theck has already fixed a bug with the way SimC was modeling RPPM trinks for Ret, and I believe another bug which was causing Exo's global to double-dip on haste (i.e., to benefit as a normal spell and through SoB) - which may be another reason for Exo falling behind in priority.
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