Mobile Healers

85 Night Elf Hunter
8905
Hi guys! I've been torn between shaman and disc priest healing for quite some time now... (years). I'd like to buckle down and just choose one of them to play a bit more and gear up since for the last couple of expansions, I've been half-****ing them and never really getting anywhere.

I main a resto druid, so mobility is something that I'm really used to. I guess my question is, after resto druids, which of those two healers feels more mobile in raids? (Shaman have spiritwalker, riptide; discs have glyphed moving penance, holy fire, shield.)

A couple of other things: I've been under the impression that shaman are a bit lackluster in spread healing, is that something that's noticeable for you? And do either of them stand out to have mana issues?

Thanks!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I'd say Disc Priests are right after Druids when it comes to mobility. PW:S, mobile Penance, Prayer of Mending, etc. Shamans really only have Spiritwalker's Grace to help with their mobility and is on a bit of a cooldown. Riptide is handy, but has a bit of a cooldown itself. If you're looking to heal a bunch of people while moving you might have to resort to using the glyph (which currently reduces the initial heal by 90%, 75% on 5.4).
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90 Human Priest
16220
We talking 10M or 25M? Because in 10 Holy Priests are probably more mobile than Disc because of our heavy Renew usage in lieu of traditional PoH spam.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
We talking 10M or 25M? Because in 10 Holy Priests are probably more mobile than Disc because of our heavy Renew usage in lieu of traditional PoH spam.


AFAIK holy priests don't exist in 10M
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90 Human Priest
16220
AFAIK holy priests don't exist in 10M

<--

DEFYING STEREOTYPES ALL DAY
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
I play both.

I highly discourage you from thinking either Disc priest or resto shaman is anything approaching a mobile healer.

While shaman have SWG, it's a 15sec duration on a 2min cooldown (you can glyph it for a 20sec duration). Yes, it's appreciated, but no, it doesn't even come close to dealing with the type of healing-on-the-move we've seen in ToT, and from what I've seen others report back from the PTR, looks like a lot of the same is incoming for 5.4.

Riptide has a 10sec cooldown, which doesn't sound like much, but definitely limits how much healing you can get out of it in situations where there's a reasonable healing requirement. Glyphed Riptide is currently... generally undesirable unless you have so few GCDs where you're able to stand and cast that it's really the only way you can contribute to the healing outside of SWG nd your totems. Its prime benefit is in its initial heal, not in its long-duration HoT which goes to overheal most of the time... *unless* you're in a situation like Garalon, or Tortos, where pretty much the entire raid is taking constant or near-constant damage.

5.4 will see the Glyph of Riptide improved for us (instead of losing 90% of the initial heal's value, we'll "only" lose 75%), but it's still going to be a shaman's last resort, and will mean you're simply not going to be able to pump out a lot of healing for that fight if you have to move so much that glyphed Riptide is "worthwhile".

What will make a difference for resto shaman healing on the move in 5.4 (as well as spread situations, which I personally don't find as difficult so long as there's not also lots of movement involved) is the removal of Healing Tide Totem as a talent choice (it's going to be made baseline for all shamans) and its replacement with a talent which will increase the healing done by Healing Stream Totem by 15%, and then make the totem tick on 2 targets at once.

Healing Rain's radius is being increased, which I guess helps people dip their toes into the blue circle for a little healing if they can access that section of the room, but beyond shrewd placement decision on your part, you're leaving HR's movement-phase healing up to other players deciding to make use of it.

On to Disc priest.

Disc priest has one main ability which can be cast on the move - PW:S (... two, if you count glyphed Penance). Now, it's an incredibly potent ability, so... that's worth noting. In addition, you don't have to lose your Evangelism stacks during heavy movement fights, because Holy Fire is instant-cast (with a 10sec cooldown), so you don't have re-build stacks of Evangelism after you're able to stop movement, which helps. It's also worth mentioning that PoM, while not as important for Disc as it is for Holy, is able to help in movement-intensive situations. Pain Suppression as an instant cast can also mean the difference between life & death in heavy movement phases.

But beyond PW:S and glyphed Penance, you have to be able to stop to cast PoH which is almost invariably how you set up Spirit Shell, and you have to be able to stop to cast Smite. PW:B isn't usually of crucial use if a fight requires intensive healing while on the move.

Moreover, 5.4 will lessen the amount of time you have in which to set up your Spirit Shells (down to 10sec, from a current 15sec) which additionally causes problems if you're trying to SS while movement is necessary.

Of the two, I'd say Disc is more mobile, but I wouldn't categorize either as being particularly mobile healers. Neither have mana issues, once you're out of blue gear. Disc is currently laughing at Spirit, though 5.4 might alter that somewhat; we don't expect them to begin to have mana *problems* though.

Both are really interesting healers imo. I prefer Disc, but I've loved my resto shaman even through what has been a contentious tier of raiding for shamans, and 5.4 really has me interested, shaman-wise.
Edited by Ellarix on 7/21/2013 2:55 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
07/21/2013 02:27 PMPosted by Unicornkitty
I'd say Disc Priests are right after Druids when it comes to mobility.


I don't know druid healing 1st-hand in end game play, but merely due to a Mistweaver's big cooldown being instant, on top of all the rest of their mobility, while druids' major cooldown requires channeling, I'd say Mistweaver > druid -------> Disc/holy/pally > shaman, in descending order of mobility.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
07/21/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Ellarix
I'd say Disc Priests are right after Druids when it comes to mobility.


I don't know druid healing 1st-hand in end game play, but merely due to a Mistweaver's big cooldown being instant, on top of all the rest of their mobility, while druids' major cooldown requires channeling, I'd say Mistweaver > druid -------> Disc/holy/pally > shaman, in descending order of mobility.


Oh most definitely are Mistweavers more mobile. OP just mentioned Druid, Resto Shaman, and Disc Priest.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
8905
Thanks so much for all the feedback. I am indeed only considering disc priests and shaman at the moment. (paladin/holy priest playstyle don't really suit me, and I don't have the motivation to level a monk for now. XD)
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90 Troll Druid
6795
In terms of your looking into 5.4 question OP, shamans will be the best healers in the game at pure stacked healing and maybe average healers for spread healing and dead last at mobility. 90% of the spread healing in SoO ( and its mostly spread healing fights) has a lot of mobility built in, so Shamans are most likely going to be weak on a lot of fights again next tier just because of this fact.

Because of how absorbs work, Disc has been the most powerful or one of the most powerful healing specs for quite some time. Never a bad choice. And to answer the mana problems question - neither really do. Shamans have the best mana return in the game and priests I believe are second.
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90 Draenei Priest
12030
I have a holy pally, disc priest (also play holy sometimes), resto druid, resto shaman. Never played a monk. Disc is my favorite but druids feel the most mobile to me.

07/21/2013 02:52 PMPosted by Ellarix
Disc priest has one main ability which can be cast on the move - PW:S (... two, if you count glyphed Penance).


If you glyph penance you can cast and move, you can cast and use PoM, barrier, PW shield, renew, holy fire and any of the level 90 talents.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Disc priest has one main ability which can be cast on the move - PW:S (... two, if you count glyphed Penance).


If you glyph penance you can cast and move, you can cast and use PoM, barrier, PW shield, renew, holy fire and any of the level 90 talents.


All of which I detailed. In terms of the spec's main healing abilities, PW:S is the only one outside of glyphed Penance, and since it's not a heal to be applied to damage done but an absorb which is irrelevant to damage already done, its use isn't always indicated in every situation.

... in situations where its use *is* indicated (I'm not saying those situations are few and far between; I'm just pointing out that situations *do* arise where PW:S is not the appropriate action to take, whether you're moving or not), it's definitely strong, for an ability which can be spammed while on the move.

I feel it's important to count abilities which are useful to specific situations only when glyphed to be in a different catagory, since they then occupy a glyph spot which means you might not be able to use the glyphs you'd otherwise want to use. There's a penalty for that ability being available to you for the specific situation in question.
Edited by Ellarix on 7/22/2013 7:29 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
12030
All of which I detailed. In terms of the spec's main healing abilities, PW:S is the only one outside of glyphed Penance, and since it's not a heal to be applied to damage done but an absorb which is irrelevant to damage already done, its use isn't always indicated in every situation.


I count everything I said as a main ability, whether it's a straight up heal or not. Disc is about absorbs so I feel it counts. You also mentioned that PoM isn't as important to disc as it is for holy, which I found to be confusing because I use it on CD in nearly every situation in PVP or PVE.

Anyway I'm not going to get into specific situations, the OP wanted to know mobility, which to me means casting on the move, which we covered.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
07/22/2013 07:54 AMPosted by Ocyla
You also mentioned that PoM isn't as important to disc as it is for holy, which I found to be confusing because I use it on CD in nearly every situation in PVP or PVE.


Oh, I agree - I cast (unglyphed) Riptide on cooldown; it doesn't mean it's one of my main heals, and it doesn't mean it keeps people from dying during movement-intensive phases.

PoM does a *ridiculous* amount of healing for Holy (in 10man, anyway; I can't speak about 25man), and nowhere near the same amount of healing for Disc. Used on cooldown or not. That's all I meant by saying it wasn't a "main heal" for Disc. Is it an ability you can cast to heal people while you have to be moving? Absolutely. Is it going to be much of a factor in keeping people alive, for a Disc priest? Nope.
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90 Tauren Druid
18810
07/21/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Ellarix
I'd say Disc Priests are right after Druids when it comes to mobility.


I don't know druid healing 1st-hand in end game play, but merely due to a Mistweaver's big cooldown being instant, on top of all the rest of their mobility, while druids' major cooldown requires channeling, I'd say Mistweaver > druid -------> Disc/holy/pally > shaman, in descending order of mobility.

Symbiosisisizes Ella for Spiritwalker's Grace.
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1 Night Elf Priest
0
Uhm, Shaman is funner imo if that matters to you at all lol
On my shaman, though I've benched him for my MW monk, Ghost wolf is my best friend.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Symbiosisisizes Ella for Spiritwalker's Grace.


I am happy to share it with you any time you ask!

I mean, uh, you know, if you went Alli, anyway. While you're Horde, I'll be sure to Hex you good instead :D And Wind Shear anything you try to use that's not instant cast, just for good measure.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Disc is more cast-while-moving mobile. PoM, Solace/HF, PW:S, lvl90 talents, optionally glyphed penance

Shaman's reliance on abilities with CD's however means they can drop rain/totems and ghost wolf for a few seconds to get into position to spam again without having a significant impact on throughput.

Side note on PoM discussion... PoM is really good for disc. It's silly to not take advantage of it in situations where it'll get consumed. Just sit down and calculate the healing it does. Now calculate smite's healing or PoH*0.6 (to adjust for cast time vs GCD).
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Side note on PoM discussion... PoM is really good for disc. It's silly to not take advantage of it in situations where it'll get consumed. Just sit down and calculate the healing it does. Now calculate smite's healing or PoH*0.6 (to adjust for cast time vs GCD).


lol, I'm not saying for Disc to not use PoM on cooldown (though there can be occasional situations where it'll not be the most important priority when it comes off cooldown, depending on player spread (ie range) and likelihood of non-tanks taking damage within its bounce duration).

Reading back through earlier posts in this thread though, I'm realizing I blurred a discussion from another thread (uhh... I think the 5.4 healer mechanics thread?) - where people are talking about abilities each healer has which generate large portions of their healing, and that discussion was definitely on my mind as I was thinking about what "main heals" and what "other abilities that are not main heals" are available to cast on the move.

Perhaps that puts some of my comments into perspective, and also, since I've now reminded myself that this isn't the other discussion, it puts some of the comments made by other people into perspective, since I now know they're not making statements based on the discussion in the other thread ;)
Edited by Ellarix on 7/22/2013 9:11 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
15350
optionally glyphed penance
I'd suggest that it's really not optional. Even if 5.4 takes a bite out of disc mana regen, being able to Penance on the move is outrageously good.
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