5.4 PTR Healing: The State of it

2 Undead Priest
0
Ok so any constructive input is welcome. Prior to Throne of Thunder, Shaman seemed to be in a fine place: I seen them doing nicely in MV, Toes, etc. Then Throne came out and shaman were picked as the "Low healer on the totem pole". A spot that probably every single healer was in at one point or another in the game and xpac release.

So shaman got that 20% bump across the board to all their healing spells. Still they were low man on the totempole for Throne.

As it stands now on PTR, shaman are insanely overpowered. OP to the point that Elemental shaman can toss a healing rain down and outheal normal healers. To the point where every healer goes oom at the end of a fight, but shaman are full mana. To the point where shaman's spell use is comprised of mostly 2 spells: Healing Rain and Chain Heal which make up 40% or more of their healing alone.

Is this how Bliz is balancing out shaman in the next raiding tier? Not to mention Prot Paladins still do some insane healing. I am hoping since its still early on in the ptr these healing issues can be examined more indepth and balanced out.

Shaman are an overall great healing class and bring alot to a raid overall. Overbuffing them to the extent they are now on the ptr to make up for 1 bad raiding tier for them seems nutty!

Apart from shaman, the other healers all seem more in line with each other finally. Some differences in healing styles then what some may be used to now, but same mana use, same closeness in numbers, etc.

Does anyone have any ptr logs right now from fights?
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
07/21/2013 08:11 AMPosted by Fernamp
Prior to Throne of Thunder, Shaman seemed to be in a fine place: I seen them doing nicely in MV, Toes, etc.


Not sure what world you've been living on but this whole expansion has been about disc priests and holy paladins. Until they change how absorbs work, I don't know if that will ever change.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Ok so any constructive input is welcome. Prior to Throne of Thunder, Shaman seemed to be in a fine place: I seen them doing nicely in MV, Toes, etc. Then Throne came out and shaman were picked as the "Low healer on the totem pole". A spot that probably every single healer was in at one point or another in the game and xpac release.

So shaman got that 20% bump across the board to all their healing spells. Still they were low man on the totempole for Throne.

As it stands now on PTR, shaman are insanely overpowered. OP to the point that Elemental shaman can toss a healing rain down and outheal normal healers. To the point where every healer goes oom at the end of a fight, but shaman are full mana. To the point where shaman's spell use is comprised of mostly 2 spells: Healing Rain and Chain Heal which make up 40% or more of their healing alone.

Is this how Bliz is balancing out shaman in the next raiding tier? Not to mention Prot Paladins still do some insane healing. I am hoping since its still early on in the ptr these healing issues can be examined more indepth and balanced out.

Shaman are an overall great healing class and bring alot to a raid overall. Overbuffing them to the extent they are now on the ptr to make up for 1 bad raiding tier for them seems nutty!

Apart from shaman, the other healers all seem more in line with each other finally. Some differences in healing styles then what some may be used to now, but same mana use, same closeness in numbers, etc.

Does anyone have any ptr logs right now from fights?


It was a lot more than one raiding tier that Shaman were underwhelming to flat out bad. They realistically have not been above average (in throughput - ignoring things like SLT breaking Heroic Spine) since T6. They were dead last in T7, T8, T9, T11, T12, and T15. In T14 which you seem to recall as Shaman being amazing, they were actually the second weakest healer (Druids were the weakest).

People seem to also remember ICC and DS as being amazing Shaman tiers. In ICC, they were clearly outclassed by Druids, Disc Priests and Paladins, and in DS, they were clearly outclassed by Paladins and relatively balanced with the other healers. The reality is people remember those tiers as Shaman being strong in, because they were probably the only 2 tiers out of the last 9 where they were close to competitive.

Based on the history of being the worst healer in 6 of the last 9 tiers and not remotely the strongest at any point in the last 3 expansions, I don't know that airing on the side of overbuffing the spec is the worst thing in the world. You also need to remember that LFR scaled down to a 496 ilvl is greatly inflating Shaman performance. The LFR testing is at a lower gear level than people will be at when they actually do this on live, and the nature of Shaman mastery has always been that our output is inflated when playing with (likely) incompetent other healers and raiders. My overheal in PTR LFR testing yesterday was in the 50% range. In 25H on live (with competent healers and everyone at a 545+ ilvl), it is typically about 75%. When overheal is back to normal levels, Shaman output is going to fall off significantly; our mastery gain is heavily inflated right now. We need to see 25N and 25H raid testing logs from competent guilds to jump to any conclusions.

Plus, nothing that is on the PTR right now is showing Shaman any more overpowered than 4.2 Resto Druids, 4.3 Holy Paladins, 5.0 Mistweavers or 5.1 Disc Priests. In all of those situations, those specs were mostly left in that state for the entire patch cycle. Is it possible that this tier is finally Shaman's turn to be the top dog for once?
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2 Undead Priest
0
So because paladins and disc priests have an absorb mechanic, shaman suck or something? Are you saying shaman are a bad healer class? Im not talking about absorbs; and at this point on the ptr, every healer has some type of absorb pretty much. Regardless, that doesnt mean overbuffing another class to a point where they only need to use 2 spells (The very thing they originally nerfed Holy Priests and COH, Disc and SS, Pals and EF, etc) is a good way to balance out absorbs? :P
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
Here are some LFR PTR logs:

Protectors kill (using AG):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-75yhq24an2p0k9ia/sum/healingDone/?s=680&e=1610

Protectors 5 min wipe (using Rushing Streams):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cxbn7b2s65slsvmp/sum/healingDone/?s=2332&e=2857

Immerseus kill (using Rushing Streams) :
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cxbn7b2s65slsvmp/sum/healingDone/?s=1309&e=1970

Nuroshen wipe (using Rushing Streams):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-73uldqnm1ss6d7ud/sum/healingDone/?s=1017&e=1421
Edited by Tiberria on 7/21/2013 8:33 AM PDT
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
07/21/2013 08:31 AMPosted by Fernamp
at this point on the ptr, every healer has some type of absorb


You're being very generous with your definition of "absorb".
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
So because paladins and disc priests have an absorb mechanic, shaman suck or something? Are you saying shaman are a bad healer class? Im not talking about absorbs; and at this point on the ptr, every healer has some type of absorb pretty much. Regardless, that doesnt mean overbuffing another class to a point where they only need to use 2 spells (The very thing they originally nerfed Holy Priests and COH, Disc and SS, Pals and EF, etc) is a good way to balance out absorbs? :P


You honestly have no idea what you're talking about if you think Shaman (that are competent and playing properly) are only going to be using 2 spells. At minimum, we will be using HR, HST, Riptide, and ULE on cooldown and using Chain Heal as a filler between those cooldowns. That isn't counting any direct single target heals that need to be cast, or all of the major cooldowns (HTT, MTT, SLT, Ascendance, AG, etc.). Is that really that much less than other specs are using?
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
To the point where shaman's spell use is comprised of mostly 2 spells: Healing Rain and Chain Heal which make up 40% or more of their healing alone.Is this how Bliz is balancing out shaman in the next raiding tier?


Pretty much all healers have two spells that make up 40% or more of their healing, it is not confined to shaman.

Monks- ReM-Uplift
Disc- SpiritShell-Atonement
Paladin- EF/IH
Holy Priests- Echo/CoH
Druids- Rejuv/SM

Shamans will still have troubles due to spread healing. They are far from being OP.
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90 Troll Shaman
18695
Crying about resto shaman? Is this bizarro world?

where they only need to use 2 spells

Are you going to complain about rejuv spammers? Smite spammers? How about renewing mists/uplift? EF?
Edited by Naine on 7/21/2013 8:45 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930


Shamans will still have troubles due to spread healing. They are far from being OP.


The only change that might end up being slightly over the top is the 25 man Healing Rain target cap change. HTT going baseline and getting buffed to 12 targets in 25 man, plus the option of taking RS or AG works out to a 20-25% buff. Shaman are 15-20% behind in stacked fights and 50%+ behind in spread fights in 5.2. The Chain Heal change was 100% necessary to make our filler spells actually not suck on spread fights.

The problem with the Healing Rain buff is, if they revert it, we are back to middle to bottom of the pack on stacked fights, which is unacceptable given our lack of spread healing tools. They can't buff the base spell much more without it being the best spell to use even on single targets. They can't leave the 14 cap in place in 25 mans and nerf the base spell, because it would be nerfing 10 mans too much. I guess they could try setting the DR cap to 10 targets in both 10 and 25 man raids and seeing how that works out if the 14 target cap ends up being too strong.
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If you think Resto Shaman will be OP in 5.4 then you have no idea of the state of healing in general at all.
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100 Orc Shaman
15280
Post on your main dont hide behind a lvl 2 alt
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90 Troll Druid
10395
To the point where shaman's spell use is comprised of mostly 2 spells: Healing Rain and Chain Heal which make up 40% or more of their healing alone.


That is not a Shaman specific problem. Rejuvenation alone can be as high as 40% of a Druids Healing, Rejuvenation and Wild Growth together is usually over 50% of my healing. That doesn't mean that I don't use any other spells, because I do. Tranq, mushrooms, swiftmend, ironbark, regrowth, FoN, NS + Healing Touch, are all spells I use in those very same fights where half of my healing is Rejuv + Wild Growth.

As for Shamans on the ptr, even if they are over powered next patch I'd be fine with it, It's about time Shamans got to be something other than manabots/dead last in healing done.

Edited to say that My 50% of healing done with rejuv and wg can be done when spread or stacked. Shamans spamming HR and CH still relies on the raid being relatively stacked, this won't always happen.
Edited by Moophius on 7/21/2013 9:53 AM PDT
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100 Human Priest
10875
Is it possible that this tier is finally Shaman's turn to be the top dog for once?


This game is so doomed as long as the player base acts childish like this.

"I want my turn to be unbalanced!"

instead of

"Balance the freaking game PROPERLY already for crying out loud......"
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90 Tauren Priest
0
OP, no. Just...no. Stahp.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12980
This game is so doomed as long as the player base acts childish like this."I want my turn to be unbalanced!"instead of"Balance the freaking game PROPERLY already for crying out loud......"


I find this particularly hilarious. When shaman complain about HPS being unbalanced we get the standard "Someone has to be first, someone has to be last" argument, and that it doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of "balance."

But... When shaman are on top, they're clearly overpowered.

We're not overpowered. Someone has to be first, and someone has to be last. Enjoy the view from down there.
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100 Undead Priest
10715
07/21/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Harpoa
To the point where shaman's spell use is comprised of mostly 2 spells: Healing Rain and Chain Heal which make up 40% or more of their healing alone.Is this how Bliz is balancing out shaman in the next raiding tier?


Pretty much all healers have two spells that make up 40% or more of their healing, it is not confined to shaman.

Monks- ReM-Uplift
Disc- SpiritShell-Atonement
Paladin- EF/IH
Holy Priests- Echo/CoH
Druids- Rejuv/SM

Shamans will still have troubles due to spread healing. They are far from being OP.


Hmm, let's see. Looking at my latest healing logs I tallied up the following:

H Jin'rokh
Spirit Shell did 12.0% and Atonement did 13.2% = 25.2%

H Horridon
Spirit Shell did 17.6% and Atonement did 25.3% = 42.9%

H Council
Spirit Shell did 9.6% and Atonement did 22.2% = 31.6%

H Tortos
Spirit Shell did 13.8% and Atonement did 11.6% = 25.4%

H Megaera
Spirit Shell did 34.0% and Atonement did 7.7% = 41.7%

H Ji'kun
Spirit Shell did 16.2% and Atonement did 24.3% 40.5%

H Primordius
Spirit Shell did 7.5% and Atonement did 1.1% = 8.6%

H Iron Qon
Spirit Shell did 21.4% and Atonement did 12.1% = 33.5%

H Twin Consorts
Spirit Shell did 9.9% and Atonement did 17.8% = 27.7%

There were only 3 fights where a combination of Spirit Shell and Atonement made up more than 40% of my healing:
-Horridon
-Ji'kun
-Megaera

Horridon should be fairly obvious, as the boss gives a ridiculous damage buff and Dire Call is perfectly suited to Spirit Shell on cooldown. Ji'kun is another special case, because I basically run around killing nests most of the fight and there isn't anything to heal but Quills.

Megaera is a good example to demonstrate your point, and on Megaera I push myself hard. However I also push myself equally hard on Iron Qon too, and those numbers don't support your theory. If I go back to when Megaera was actual progression for us, the total of Spirit Shell and Atonement drops around that 33% mark to be similar to Iron Qon.

On average across all fights, a combination of the two spells is around 30%. That means each one contributes roughly 15% by itself, which is appropriate considering those are approximately relative to the amount of time I spend casting them.

Last tier, I remember fights where 40% of Shaman output came from ONE spell.
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Last tier, I remember fights where 40% of Shaman output came from ONE spell.

That's kind of what happens when they put all your non-CD output into one single spell and make your fillers pure crap. This is a non-issue for other healers.

Us getting so much from HR (I've never had 40%+ from HR. Over 30% perhaps, but 40%+ seldomly) has more to do with with our healing mechanics being unproperly tuned rather than HR being OP alone.
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100 Undead Priest
10715
Either way, doesn't that just validify the point the original poster was making? That we shouldn't have so much of Shaman healing being invested into one or two spells while ignoring the balance with other spells?
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18005
Either way, doesn't that just validify the point the original poster was making? That we shouldn't have so much of Shaman healing being invested into one or two spells while ignoring the balance with other spells?


If it was just a shaman thing sure, but it's not. In 10m, fight mechanics can change a shamans healing selection more than any other healer, and this is saying something. In stacked yes, 2 spells will do quite a large % of our healin but the other 60% does matter, and in spread our spell selection is arguably the most diverse.
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