5.4 PTR Healing: The State of it

100 Blood Elf Monk
17985
You don't want to just upgrade the dps cloak?


No? Why would I want that PoS. The healing cloak is !@#$ing rigged.
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100 Tauren Druid
9805


1) Glyph of Efflo means that you basically have Efflo 100% of the time as a Druid.


Unless they're just going to insanely buff every healer's ground aoe, this never goes live. I'm surprised they even though of it in the first place.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930


1) Glyph of Efflo means that you basically have Efflo 100% of the time as a Druid.


Unless they're just going to insanely buff every healer's ground aoe, this never goes live. I'm surprised they even though of it in the first place.


I was just explaining why Tiberria's numbers were the way they were.
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
Strange, as without it we won't be able to compete with Disc or Mistweavers at all and we'll be completely swapped out for Shamans on the stack fights.

I never understand people who want to sit themselves. We're losing a lot of throughput from mushrooms and have terrible set bonuses. It doesn't seem over the top from what I've seen so far.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Yeah, I will know when we hit the PTR for real. We have some very skilled shaman so it will show very quickly.


Healing Rain is what you should be looking at, not Chain Heal.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
I also feel like the Shaman kit will probably be imbalanced on a fight by fight basis. Problem is, it's inevitable things would turn out like this due to Blizzard's design intent. Blame Blizzard for not giving the spec legitimate spreading options and forcing them into this niche that literally no one asked for.

Basically it was like "either make Shaman consistent and drop this niche or actually make the spec perform the best in said niche". They went with the latter. Maybe after a tier of it they will start to admit it's a horrible idea and has been since day one. Maybe not.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 7/22/2013 10:25 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
13535


1) Glyph of Efflo means that you basically have Efflo 100% of the time as a Druid.


Unless they're just going to insanely buff every healer's ground aoe, this never goes live. I'm surprised they even though of it in the first place.


Its not surprising at all, SM has long needed to be separated from Efflo. It was always an awkward mechanic that punished using SM for triage healing. Attaching it to shrooms makes lots of sense, since the radius of each match and they are both focused on stacked healing.

As for the new efflorescence being too strong, it is a 115% buff to a spell that does between 5-10% of our healing (5 being a fight like Horridon, 10 Iron Qon or Ra-den). It honestly is not that crazy of a buff, on most fights it will still be a 4th-5th top spell. On pure stacking fights it will jump to #2-3 I expect, but it will not suddenly make us the strongest healer there, just more competitive.

I think the nerf to mushrooms easily off-sets this 6-12% buff to overall healing. Add in YG, and our 90 tier buffs, and we gain some throughput overall, but it is not really that drastic. The X factor is Druids who can game Genesis well. But IMO this will take a bit of skill and TP gains may be nominal for some. Also remember, our T16 tier bonuses are pretty weak.

The bigger issue IMO is not the healing with efflo, it is the fact it is free. Anyway, once I get to play on the PTR I will have a much better feel for all of this.
Edited by Fangthorn on 7/23/2013 12:35 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I also feel like the Shaman kit will probably be imbalanced on a fight by fight basis. Problem is, it's inevitable things would turn out like this due to Blizzard's design intent. Blame Blizzard for not giving the spec legitimate spreading options and forcing them into this niche that literally no one asked for.

Basically it was like "either make Shaman consistent and drop this niche or actually make the spec perform the best in said niche". They went with the latter. Maybe after a tier of it they will start to admit it's a horrible idea and has been since day one. Maybe not.


It's been their idea since Cata. Don't get your hopes up.
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90 Tauren Druid
5530
So for the glyph of efflorescence, all you really need to do is lay down a mushroom in a fight and you're guaranteed 20% healing bonus on every SM you cast after that unless you pop the mushroom? Seems... simple. I don't really use mushrooms as is but if that's what it takes then i'm all for it.

Really looking forward to genesis though. Genesis + SotF + WG/Tranq = nerd chills
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13135
07/22/2013 08:16 AMPosted by Pitkanen
CH is not at risk of being spammed over other spells.


I watched Midwinters 25m Heroic Galakras fight on Twitch the other day. I got him to hover over the OP as !@#$ shaman's numbers, the #1 heal was Chain Heal @ around 47% of his healing with healing rain second @ about 20% with pretty much no other spells following.(There are other spells obv, just very minimal contribution)

Didn't look like it was a complete stacked up fight, looked like half the raid was spread out. Still Shaman dominating, by a huge margin.

All he did was spam CH, seemingly never loosing much mana.

You have been mistaken.
Edited by Drbigblunts on 9/6/2013 9:06 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Priest
12850
If shamans are OP I am totally fine with this.
World top 50 guilds may stack them and that's fine. I will still keep my raid spot.
And quite frankly they have not had a turn to be OP in a long while.

It will be just like Paladins in DS maybe? Sure they will be in high demand and everyone will want one, but it will be doable without stacking shaman or even bringing any at all.
Other healers will be brought and devs will tone em down a notch eventually.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
09/06/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Drbigblunts
CH is not at risk of being spammed over other spells.


I watched Midwinters 25m Heroic Galakras fight on Twitch the other day. I got him to hover over the OP as !@#$ shaman's numbers, the #1 heal was Chain Heal @ around 47% of his healing with healing rain second @ about 20% with pretty much no other spells following.(There are other spells obv, just very minimal contribution)

Didn't look like it was a complete stacked up fight, looked like half the raid was spread out. Still Shaman dominating, by a huge margin.

All he did was spam CH, seemingly never loosing much mana.

You have been mistaken.


I fail to see the problem when the rest of us are spamming as well.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
I watched Midwinters 25m Heroic Galakras fight on Twitch the other day. I got him to hover over the OP as !@#$ shaman's numbers, the #1 heal was Chain Heal @ around 47% of his healing with healing rain second @ about 20% with pretty much no other spells following.(


Really need more than just your word on such a bold statement. I tested a lot of 10 man raiding on the ptr and CH was never even close to that range. Only time that something was out of whack was on Mal when HR was like 48% of my healing due to the tortos affect. And if HST and HTT weren't making up a decent percentage (at the very least 8-10%) then i have a very hard time buying what you are selling.

Give me a log and i will concede, posting what you think you saw, can't take that as gospel.
Edited by Harpoa on 9/6/2013 9:43 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
09/06/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Harpoa
I watched Midwinters 25m Heroic Galakras fight on Twitch the other day. I got him to hover over the OP as !@#$ shaman's numbers, the #1 heal was Chain Heal @ around 47% of his healing with healing rain second @ about 20% with pretty much no other spells following.(


Really need more than just your word on such a bold statement. I tested a lot of 10 man raiding on the ptr and CH was never even close to that range. Only time that something was out of whack was on Mal when HR was like 48% of my healing due to the tortos affect. And if HST and HTT weren't making up a decent percentage (at the very least 8-10%) then i have a very hard time buying what you are selling.

Give me a log and i will concede, posting what you think you saw, can't take that as gospel.


Considering that there are fights now where my PW: Shield usage exceeds 50% of my total healing done as Disc, it honestly wouldn't surprise me to see a fight or two where this is the case, but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts it's not like that on every fight.

Especially since most of these fights you're going to have trouble standing still long enough to get the cast off. xD
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90 Human Priest
13720
09/06/2013 09:42 AMPosted by Harpoa
Really need more than just your word on such a bold statement.


I would doubt their logs are public but for a fight like Galakras, at least from what I saw, a fair portion of the raid stays stacked to deal with the add waves and with a buffed healing rain sitting in that location for basically the whole fight, it doesn't seem unreasonable. That being said, I'm ok with shaman healing for more!
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13135
09/06/2013 09:45 AMPosted by Tiriel
Considering that there are fights now where my PW: Shield usage exceeds 50%


Of course. Same here. But Divine agies is a close #2 with a high percent followed by SS with a high percent. What I was getting at, is that on that fight I watched, plus 2 others they did. The shamans top spell was chain heal by > 40% to the next spell down...

If this is my meter as a graphical showing:

Skada: Healing done for BigBadBossGuy
1. PW Sheild -------------------------------------------------|
2. Divine Agies--------------------------------------------|
3. Spirit Shell--------------------------------------|
4. divine star-----------------------|
5. Other stuff---------|
6. Other stuff------|
7.etc.

This was the shamans for those fights:

Skada: Healing done for BigBadBossGuy5.4
1. Chain Heal-----------------------------------------------------|
2.Healing Rain-------|
3.Other stuff--|
4. etc

All I was getting at, was on (3) of the fights, it looked to be nothing but chain heal spammage. Pretty much lay down HR and forgetaboutit and chain heal all day. I don't know, but shouldnt there be some diversity in spells? AND obviously its going to be different per fight, but the 3 I seen followed the same trend..

Give me a log and i will concede

They do not make their PTR logs public. But go look at his previously recorded broadcasts for that day, Slootykins. I was getting him to pour though the numbers using the chat, and you can see what im talking about.

I just hope that this isnt the case for everything, because its not even that this guy was a skilled shaman( the guy I was watching plays a priest normally, but used a shaman on PTR, because of the insane increases and rolfness of them), they are pressing 2 buttons and rolfing at everyone else as the game does the rest.

I don't know about you, but I am not a mindless atonement bot, or a PW Shield bot (1-2 fights maybe). I cast a plethora of my toolkit, pre-emptive mitigate damage and triage based on whats needed, and healing should be just that, using your entire toolkit.

I mean, Im all for shamans being brought up to being with the rest of us. Just, it seems like they are way too good for the amount of non-work required.

Bash Away.
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90 Human Priest
13720
I cast a plethora of my toolkit, pre-emptive mitigate damage and triage based on whats needed, and healing should be just that, using your entire toolkit.


It should be, but if your healing is like this, perhaps you should adjust your example healing breakdown. also divine star wouldn't do that much in proportion to your big three™. one thing to keep in mind is that a shaman with healing rain and chain heal as their top spells by a wide margin is absolutely no different to a disc priest with any combination of SS/PWS/DA because SS is just poh spam and DA is a passive ability occuring on crits, so it's not something you are actively choosing to apply.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
Like i said, i did a lot of testing and CH was never 100% more than my HR, ever. So still not buying it. Drawing pretty pictures on the forums is nice and all, but logs are the truth.
Edited by Harpoa on 9/6/2013 12:19 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Shaman
13215
I thought this was going to be an interesting state of healing in 5.4 thread with useful facts and intellectual discussion. I was wrong, the op threw that right out the window with his ptr qq rsham bs.

Chill out its just ptr, mastery tends to have a large effect and resto shaman look better when learning new encounters while other healers aren't as familiar with the damage patterns of a particular fight.

Resto will be just fine In 5.4

Resto shaman weren't as bad in 5.3 as some people made them out to be. Yeah we needed buffs and changes, but you adapt with the tools you're given and learn to perform with them. Some shaman still need to figure that out.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
09/06/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Drbigblunts
CH is not at risk of being spammed over other spells.


I watched Midwinters 25m Heroic Galakras fight on Twitch the other day. I got him to hover over the OP as !@#$ shaman's numbers, the #1 heal was Chain Heal @ around 47% of his healing with healing rain second @ about 20% with pretty much no other spells following.(There are other spells obv, just very minimal contribution)

Didn't look like it was a complete stacked up fight, looked like half the raid was spread out. Still Shaman dominating, by a huge margin.

All he did was spam CH, seemingly never loosing much mana.

You have been mistaken.


It's not clear if it's intended or not, but on Galakras, Chain Heal is hitting the friendly NPCs that are part of the fight, it seems to be prioritizing them over raid members in range that need the healing, and I think that those NPCs have a healing taken buff. As a result, Chain Heal numbers on that fight are greatly inflated.

There is no way that it is worth spamming Chain Heal over dropping HR on CD (and using ULE with every 2nd one) and no way that it's worth spamming over using HST on CD. You probably also need to use Riptide on near cooldown to have enough buffed targets to bounce CH off, especially if you are keeping it on a tank for AV. Except on a fight like that with a gimmick/bugged mechanic, there is no way that Chain Heal is going to be the top heal for a Resto Shaman that is playing properly. It probably won't even be in the top 3 heals in most cases (HR, HST with Rushing Streams and HTT generally all do more total healing). It is essentially spammed as a filler spell when ULE, HR, HST, and Riptide are all on cooldown. It is nothing like ICC when that is all you cast.
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