Best dps 5.4?

Going to be leveling an alliance for the achievement for having a 90 on both factions. I plan to make this a raider so was wondering what dps is looking up to be the best.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8045
Whichever you enjoy playing the most you'll naturally perform better at simply because you enjoy it, you'll be willing to put more effort into it.

That being said, if you care nothing of QoL, "fun factor," survivability, or anything else other than what their DPS numbers are like than the answer is the same as it has been for two expansions in a row, fire mage.
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
It is highly likely that fire mages will be nerfed either in 5.4 or via hotfix shortly after.

A better choice would be warlock: Warlocks have 3 very different and fully viable specs, sky-high survivability, excellent damage in all situations (Patchwerk, mobile, cleave, AOE, PVP), and vastly better raid utility (healthstones, portals)
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90 Night Elf Hunter
11010
a) the class that you play the best is what will be the best for you

b) 5.4 balancing hasn't finished yet. nobody can say which spec will be on top
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10620
^

enough said
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90 Worgen Warlock
4980
It is highly likely that fire mages will be nerfed either in 5.4 or via hotfix shortly after.

A better choice would be warlock: Warlocks have 3 very different and fully viable specs, sky-high survivability, excellent damage in all situations (Patchwerk, mobile, cleave, AOE, PVP), and vastly better raid utility (healthstones, portals)


Says the mage. One of these classes has been repeatedly targeted for needs in 5.4, and its not a mage.
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
It is highly likely that fire mages will be nerfed either in 5.4 or via hotfix shortly after.

A better choice would be warlock: Warlocks have 3 very different and fully viable specs, sky-high survivability, excellent damage in all situations (Patchwerk, mobile, cleave, AOE, PVP), and vastly better raid utility (healthstones, portals)


Says the mage. One of these classes has been repeatedly targeted for needs in 5.4, and its not a mage.


Mages have been nerfed extensively this expansion. As a warlock you might not have noticed, but mages sure have.

Off the top of my head here are some of the nerfs:
1. Critical Mass (fire mage crit modifier passive) nerfed from 1.5 to 1.3
2. Combustion damage multiplier nerfed by around 50%
3. Scorch no longer maintains arcane blast stacks - this nerf killed arcane spec for the majority of mages. Remember back in T14 how every mage was arcane? This is the nerf that forced every mage to ditch arcane.
4. Ice Barrier nerfed to absorb less damage.
5. In 5.4: Frost mastery nerfed. Reduces frost mage burst damage by 40% and kills frost as a pvp spec. Also results in a slight nerf to sustained PVE dps.

I'm sure if I checked the patchnotes I could find a lot more mage nerfs. But those were just the ones off the top of my head.

Also, Blizzard experimented with a fire mage nerf in an earlier 5.4 PTR build, but they decided not to go with it. However, they made it very clear that if fire mage scaling is a problem they will hotfix it. Just like they did with the last fire mage nerf (also done via hotfix and not in a main patch).
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6750
Mage is always a safe bet, typically top 3 DPS and any nerfs that have a major impact on these results are usually reverted quickly.

Warlocks have also been strong all expansion, currently pulling top 3 DPS as well and at one point had all 3 specs in the top 5

However you didn't mention what style you liked to play. If you prefer melee then obviously neither of these classes would be in the running.

Look here, those on top now are likely to still be on top in 5.4

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/all/14/60/avg/#1111111111111111111111100000000000
Edited by Cortland on 7/28/2013 4:56 PM PDT
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100 Human Warrior
5830
Mages.

Don't ever, ever listen to people tell you to,"play the class you like".

You like to play DPS because you want to do the most damage in the most efficient way, and top your raid's meters.

You will most likely have a lot of fun playing a class that has average DPS, but most guilds will leave you to last priority, and you'll find that it sucks because you're behind everyone.

"bring the player, not the skill" is BS.

You can bring a player that has the same skill level for a warrior and a mage. The mage will out dps the warrior so hard you can QQ all the way to cancelling your subscription.
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100 Troll Mage
16155
So Zyenn, when did you gain these psychic abilities that let you know what exact thoughts the OP had in regards to why he likes to play DPS?

A person should play what they like because unless they are in the top 5 to 10% of all guilds then there class doesn't really matter as long as they perform their role well. And a person who is enjoying the class is probably going to do the role better than a person who hates it.

Also the point of the game is to have fun, so the inherent goal of picking a class is to pick the class that you enjoy most...
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90 Human Hunter
12025
a) the class that you play the best is what will be the best for you

b) 5.4 balancing hasn't finished yet. nobody can say which spec will be on top
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
...With the nerf to KJC and overbuff of AD, destruction is going to be as immobile as arcane and have too low damage output to even justify it, and Affliction damage is remaining relatively unchanged-but will still not be better than demonology for progression fights save for a few.

sky-high survivability:
Soul Leech is being nerfed to 15% max HP as its cap, our only real survivability will be our tier 45 talents and Unending Resolve. Though the new Soul Link seems enticing.

excellent damage in all situations (Patchwerk, mobile, cleave, AOE, PVP):
Unless you're demo, mobile DPS isn't going to be great. Cleave will be good as demonology with UVLS and potentially affliction depending on the numbers pass, AoE seems unchanged, and PvP damage has been relatively low all expansion so I'm not sure where you got that, but affliction is receiving a few buffs there.

vastly better raid utility (healthstones, portals):
With a 60 second debuff on use, gateways may as well be removed from the game, to be honest.


The nerfed KJC gives warlock mobility that's on par with that of an elemental shaman. The elemental shaman filler nuke, lightning bolt, is castable while moving by default.... exactly like what the new KJC does for incinerate.

I'm in the process of leveling my shaman, but now at 89, I can say for sure that their mobility is vastly better than an arcane mage. Being able to spend the majority of a single-target fight moving is huge. It gives the shaman very good mobile dps. The reduction in dps they suffer on a movement is less than that of a fire mage and vastly less than that suffered by an arcane or frost mage.

As a destrolock, you'll spend more time casting incinerate than anything else. Being able to cast incinerate while moving is an enormous advantage. Sure, unlike the live version of KJC, you'll need to occasionally stop to cast Immolate and Chaos Bolt, but this is far better than an arcane mage who has to remain planted to cast their filler (arcane blast) and even their proc (arcane missiles)... and who must spend 1.5 seconds casting a little circle on the ground every time they move.

Also 60-second cooldown on using gateways is nothing. In every raid boss fight where gateway is useful (heroic Jinrokh, Ji-Kun, Iron Qon), it isn't necessary to ever take a portal twice within 60 seconds.
Edited by Mistwynd on 7/29/2013 12:16 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warlock
11450
Frost Paladins are looking strong.
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90 Troll Priest
11765
I don't know, Frost Paladins look nice, but you haven't seen Demon Hunters in Half Life 3.
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
...

You failed to point out that destro's ember regeneration without Manny's Fury and the nerf to ember gen on Rain of Fire. Ever think about how that will affect destro's damage outputin 5.4?....


Obviously the nerf to ember generation from rain of fire will affect destro dps. I can't say whether destro will be a viable spec in 5.4 or if its dps will be too low. My understanding is the goal of the nerf was to take Rain of Fire out of the single-target rotation.

In any event, the nerf to Rain of Fire shouldn't significantly affect destro mobility. If a destrolock goes with the new KJC, they will be just as mobile as an elemental shaman and still vastly more mobile than an arcane mage. You'd still be able to cast the majority of your rotation while moving, compared to an arcane mage who must stand still for 90% of their rotation, and is penalized for any movement by having to recast rune of power.

Depending on how much movement is required in Siege of Orgrimmar, KJC may well be the best talent choice for a destrolock.
Edited by Mistwynd on 7/29/2013 1:29 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
10495
Whichever you enjoy playing the most you'll naturally perform better at simply because you enjoy it, you'll be willing to put more effort into it.


That is not even remotely close to true. I enjoy playing my Arms warrior (525) a lot, second only to my paladin, but it will never come close to what I can do on some of my other lesser-geared toons (510-520).

The OP is asking a very clear question. He/she doesn't need to be told "just play what you enjoy playing" because I'm sure they can figure that out on their own. If you don't know the answer, just tell them that or don't reply instead of responding with this patronizing garbage.
Edited by Sarvam on 7/29/2013 1:56 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Mage
12940
The only thing we can cast while moving is Incinerate. Immolate and Chaos Bolt still need to be casted while standing still. Fel Flame's refresh on dots was taken out a few builds ago. So no, the majority of our rotation has to be casted while standing still.

My main point is that you are saying we have more mobility than other classes in the game when said classes have the chance (and an increasing and higher chance with the new gear levels next tier) to proc instant nukes. Locks have no such thing. This is the main thing being overlooked when talking about lock mobility. Every caster spec except shadow priests has the chance to proc their main instant nuke. Yet KJC is still labeled the scapegoat for imbalance when actually the talent is a safer route than giving locks instant nukes. Both for pvp and pve.

And guess what? That instant spell is usually the highest damage dealing spell in your recount logs etc.

When you look at one spell, sure lock mobility is better than say an ele shaman. However if you look at the whole picture, you will get a better, more accurate picture.


Compared to an arcane mage you are incorrect.

First off, as a destrolock you're going to be casting a LOT of incinerates.

This is even more so than on live. Assuming your ember generation is slower, you won't be able to cast as many chaos bolts. Immolate is cast once every 10 seconds I think. Then chaos bolt about as often. You'll be casting multiple incinerates between each chaos bolt and immolate cast.

Compare to an arcane mage who spends the majority of their time casting their filler spell: arcane blast. When the mage gets a missiles proc, the mage then casts arcane missiles. Both the filler AND the proc require standing and planting in place. Arcane mages don't have mobile dps fillers OR procs. The only arcane mage rotational spell that can even be cast while moving is arcane barrage, but that is normally only cast once every 12-15 seconds as the damage without stack is laughable.

Of course an arcane mage can cast an unstacked arcane barrage every 3 seconds. But without the arcane blast stack it does 1/7 its stacked damage. And this is reduced another 15% because the arcane mage isn't standing in rune of power while moving. The damage output from this is far less than mobile incinerate is for a warlock.

Or we could compare to a frost mage. Frost mage main filler spell, frostbolt requires planting in place. Frost mages get 2 procs that are instant cast... but there are only 2 ways to get the procs: frozen orb, which is on a very long cooldown and mostly only good against a stationary target, or frostbolt. A moving frost mage unable to use frozen orb and who doesn't have procs up can do almost nothing.

Take the Durumu maze phase in ToT as an example: The frost mage can begin with a frozen orb to hopefully get some ice lance procs, but orb will expire long before the maze is finished. After that the frost mage isn't going to have any procs and will do crap damage... unless the mage stops and plants every few seconds to try to cast a frostbolt.... very risky on that fight and possibly impossible. If the mage doesn't stop she is reduced to spamming ice lance without proc and fireblast... both of which do laughable damage.

Compared to an elemental shaman you do have a point: They get lava burst procs in addition to mobile lightning bolt. The procs are instant cast. Destro with the new KJC is like a shaman without procs. It's still very mobile... more mobile than a frost or arcane mage... but not as mobile as a hunter or 5.3 destrolock.
Edited by Mistwynd on 7/29/2013 2:33 PM PDT
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