All Monk Healers Please Read: Important

90 Pandaren Priest
8345
As for you:

At a quick glance, you're not using Expel Harm enough. It's your cheapest Chi generator. Use it on cooldown or hold it 1-2 seconds if you can expect damage in that timeframe.

Honestly, Mist/Suplift have covered everything else. Hit Expel Harm more!
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90 Draenei Monk
11275
So, you are using 3/4's of your Chi on a single target right before a large amount of burst damage that will hit 3 targets? Why would the better option not be to use 2 Uplifts?


Assuming you have a group of 3 you shouldn't have any issues on transitions because you should be abusing SCK for chi gen anyways especially if you really are running 12k spirit (I'm too lazy to armory you, and don't really care enough tbh).

Healing Spheres galore.

Secondly, with the static shocks hitting upwards of 400k, saying that someone only needs enough health to survive it also means that they will need to be damn near full health. In the 15-16 wipes we had last week trying to beat Lei Shen, we had 22 deaths due to Static Shock and of those, probably half of them were a result of multiple damage sources coming in over the course of a short time where burst healing is required.


Erm... are you all using cooldowns for static shock during transitions? There really shouldn't be multiple damage sources going out at once in the same quadrant. Bouncing bolt tickles, nobody should be getting hit by overcharged if you handle the mechanic properly, and diffusion chain doesn't really hurt (although the adds do if you get more than 1). Once again sounds like your issue is your raid doing mechanics properly.

08/06/2013 08:36 AMPosted by Naér
If you want to keep berating my gear or calling me out for questioning something logical in a sea of elitist bigots, then these forums live up to their names of being completely worthless.


It comes down to this, and I'm not going to be nice.

If you're not playing to the best of your ability (min/maxing), you're doing a disservice to your raid.

You have a responses from some of the best MW's in the US, and you seem to refuse their knowledge. By doing this, you're limiting yourself, and such, are a less skilled player.

People don't just go around giving specific advice for no reason. They do it because not only do the numbers work out, but because it's proven to be the most effective build for some of the toughest encounters in the game right now.

If you want to stand your ground, and continue doing it wrong, you can. That's your choice. But remind yourself that you could be doing just that much more for your raid, if you'd just get over yourself.
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93 Goblin Shaman
8440
As for you:

At a quick glance, you're not using Expel Harm enough. It's your cheapest Chi generator. Use it on cooldown or hold it 1-2 seconds if you can expect damage in that timeframe.

Honestly, Mist/Suplift have covered everything else. Hit Expel Harm more!


Who are you "as for you"-ing?
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90 Pandaren Priest
8345
As for you:

At a quick glance, you're not using Expel Harm enough. It's your cheapest Chi generator. Use it on cooldown or hold it 1-2 seconds if you can expect damage in that timeframe.

Honestly, Mist/Suplift have covered everything else. Hit Expel Harm more!


Who are you "as for you"-ing?


Superhero.
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90 Draenei Monk
11275
@superhero Since I'm too lazy to check and I know it popped up earlier in the thread. During low damage phases you are either generating chi outside fistweaving or via Soothing Mist when ReM and EH and MT are on cd.

It kind of came across like you didn't get that point, so sorry if this came off as condescending but I just wanted to make sure you understood what Mist and Suplift were saying.
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90 Troll Priest
6525
Why was I quoted? Am I in trouble, again?
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90 Draenei Monk
11275
Why was I quoted? Am I in trouble, again?


Nope I was quoting you because you pretty much summed up everything I wanted to say.
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90 Troll Priest
6525
08/06/2013 09:29 AMPosted by Bloöm
Why was I quoted? Am I in trouble, again?


Nope I was quoting you because you pretty much summed up everything I wanted to say.


Yeah, someone had to say it. I have no monk-playstyle input. I've just been where Superhero has--very firmly rooted in place, for no logical reason. It's not a good way to be.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15380
@superhero

You wouldn't channel mana tea during heavy damage phases either right? So you "point" no one addressed is pointless, hence was not addressed. Also, even in high damage heroics, I get by just fine chugging a GCD if need be. That is how we roll. And if I cannot I just use it on cooldown after it, and my tea disappears 2 at a time ever 10 seconds.

And then saying your logical, and all everyone is saying is "elitist" when there is logical math, theorycrafting, and evidence of top monks doing is exactly what is being said by sup and mist, means you are wrong. You can believe your right that is your choice, but you are not. The most efficient way to heal as a monk has been stated. You can feel more comfortable doing your own thing, that's fine too. But realize your method is not as good as what is proven to be the most efficient way to play a monk.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS

------> NOBODY USES GLYPHED MANA TEA DURING HIGH DAMAGE PERIODS <------

here is this post in a format you may be able to better understand: http://i.imgur.com/RgVvbt9.gif


There you go I hope that helped.

Would you like to know what a monk does during low damage phases? FISTWEAVE unglyphing is not only a mobility loss a dps decrease and removes the chance of weaving 1 mana tea cd into your chi torpedos.

NOT ONLY that. You'll fall behind on your RnM management and other cd's you have to worry about. Monks are a fast-paced class, I don't know why you'd want to slow yourself down.

Also, I don't understand why you'd gear spirit just so you can feel good about using unglyphed mana tea.

I don't even want to get into other parts of your play that you're not doing correctly. I could probably write a blog about it, so if I do i'll let you know.
Edited by Suplift on 8/6/2013 9:52 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
16220
Should I use glyphed mana tea during high damage periods?
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90 Troll Priest
6525
Should I use glyphed mana tea during high damage periods?


Maybe. I'm not sure.
Edited by Naér on 8/6/2013 9:48 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
I was mad ok
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90 Pandaren Monk
LA
17075
So, you are using 3/4's of your Chi on a single target right before a large amount of burst damage that will hit 3 targets? Why would the better option not be to use 2 Uplifts?
No, I don't enveloping mist when bouncing bolt swirls are going to come out, I pool chi. There is not constant damage going out during intermission, you don't have to spam uplift the entire phase.

Secondly, with the static shocks hitting upwards of 400k, saying that someone only needs enough health to survive it also means that they will need to be damn near full health. In the 15-16 wipes we had last week trying to beat Lei Shen, we had 22 deaths due to Static Shock and of those, probably half of them were a result of multiple damage sources coming in over the course of a short time where burst healing is required.

Coming back to the static shock issue, again 22 deaths and probably 90% of those deaths were either our Elemental Shaman, DPS DK or Warlock. The rest of the raid has immunities that we use. Without fail though, when we get a static shock on any of these 3, the fights gets immeasurably harder.
400k is like 80% health on most of your raid. As long as people aren't getting hit by overcharge(which shouldn't be happening, period) the group should be at full the entire intermission outside of bouncing/static and the one person getting hit by the diffusion add. Bouncing bolt in your logs is hitting people for about 100k, which your initial uplifts and rem ticks will offset. As long as you are keeping people topped off before that burst damage happens, there is no reason they can't have enough health to survive the static shock if people are grouping up for it after your two uplifts go off.

The issue is that at some point, their defensive cooldowns will be on cooldown and they'll have to take the full damage. Right now, we just don't have an answer for it and it's something that's wiping us.
There is no threat of death except for the second bouncing bolt/static shock. The others are spaced out enough to be healed at a less intense pace. A defensive should be available every single time for this. If it isn't, it is because the person is wasting them on stuff that doesn't need it or you have issues elsewhere in the fight that need to be adjusted for. No one is going to die from 300k damage if you are doing your job. People can die from 500k damage even if you are.

Furthermore, because we have two 90% reductions and there are only two static shocks per intermission, always pop diffuse magic for the second bouncing/static. There will be much less total healing to deal with that way and going even further, you can life cocoon the shaman (who has less health than the DK).

If you are in the middle of a high damage period, then ONE GCD is more valuable than several GCD's spend while in low damage periods. This is the point that I'm trying to come across.
This is true, that's why no one is going to use a GCD on mana tea during intense healing, you burn the leaves over the course of the fight later.
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90 Human Monk
10570
Tell all your raiders to stop being terrible and stack for Static Shock. If you cannot solo soak then you stack and pop a lesser cd to split the damage. You should have at least 3 people in each quadrant. The only time you are absolutely screwed is if you get two Static Shocks in the same quadrant and one of them can't solo soak.


Static Shock does 1.2 million damage typically. Splitting it between 3 people still does 400k damage to each one. On top of that, soaking a Bouncing Ball will hit for around 120k-130k, which is pushing the limit of any non-tank's health pool assuming no defensive cooldown. This is made even worse by the issue of having to move from the bouncing ball location to soak for the static shock which has about a 3 seconds time difference.

This is all after the Diffusion Chain that gets cast prior to that which may hit for 100k or so but even without chaining, still spawns an add that hits for 30-40k per hit.

So, now I'm trying to move over to stack up while healing at least 2 people to get them enough health to survive a 400k attack.

@Truelite

I appreciate the help. I'm going to forward that over to my priest counterpart.

@Naer

I'm not ignoring their knowledge, I'm asking them to justify their knowledge. I'm not a person who will just agree with something because someone else said it. I'm going to question it down to the last detail so that I know exactly why something is a better solution. I want to understand WHY it is not just how other people do it.

The responses that give the "of course it is" answer don't mean anything to me and they really shouldn't mean anything to anyone else. If you don't understand why something is a better choice or what the effects of that choice are, then why should you just blindly do it?

Even looking at Min/Maxing and stat weights, saying that I'm doing a disservice to my raid because I'm focusing on my spell usage instead of moving spirit over to the marginally better stat of haste is just shortsighted. My healing will be drastically more improved by discussing spell usage rather than focusing on the minor details which is why I've tried to focus on that spell usage rather than address the constant badgering about my spirit level.

Thing is, you are trying to play a MW like you would a pally (this is what it sounds like to me at least). To me, MW's are a combination of a rogue and a resto druid.


I do try to play it like my pally to a certain degree but it's hard not to considering that I healed on a pally for 7 years. With that said though, I healed all through cata using the same rogue-like structure on my paladin with holy power so it does have a huge amount of similarities in that regard. Realistically the only link that MW has to a resto druid is summed up in renewing mist.

At a quick glance, you're not using Expel Harm enough. It's your cheapest Chi generator. Use it on cooldown or hold it 1-2 seconds if you can expect damage in that timeframe.


Expel harm is an interesting question because you really can't look at a fight and say "I should have hit expel harm X amount of times during that fight". It's important to realize that it's not just a cheap chi generator but that it's also an instant on demand chi generator. This means that it can be used with a purpose.

This purpose could be for an upcoming damage phase or for getting the second chi needed for an uplift. Just pressing it on cooldown may generate more chi over the course of a fight, but again there is a huge time element that needs to be considered when these types of things come up. Having the chi when you need it is more important than having more chi overall. Typically if my Expel Harm is off cooldown and I'm at full chi, then I'm not going to use it. This happens quite often if I'm either waiting for damage or if it's a low damage period.
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90 Gnome Monk
13610
Hi guys! Anyone can confirm me if I should use glyphed manatee during high damage periods?
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90 Human Monk
10570
Erm... are you all using cooldowns for static shock during transitions? There really shouldn't be multiple damage sources going out at once in the same quadrant. Bouncing bolt tickles, nobody should be getting hit by overcharged if you handle the mechanic properly, and diffusion chain doesn't really hurt (although the adds do if you get more than 1). Once again sounds like your issue is your raid doing mechanics properly.


Ya know, this is something that just frustrates me to no end. I'll go through this one more time because I want to be very clear about something... either you are doing an completely different encounter than I am or you aren't realize just how good the rest of your raid is comparatively.

Bouncing bolt does NOT "tickle". It's hitting for anywhere from 90k to over 200k and it could be on multiple different people depending on the number that goes to the quadrant. This amount might be manageable but realize that this is going off with multiple other abilities that are going off as well.

The first transition follows the same logic every time... Diffusion Chain which we are spread out for that deals anywhere from 80k to 180k damage and get one add from it that hits for about 40k a pop... then it's Bouncing Bolts a few seconds later which deal anywhere from 90k to 200k... then it's Static Shock that lands about 3 seconds after Bouncing Bolts hitting for 350k-400k. All of this with a variable amount of movement going no depending on where the bolts are landing.

Typically, I'm throwing out a life cacoon on the shaman in order to help heal/survive through it but after that, it becomes a crap shoot.

I just don't know how we are doing the mechanic so wrong that these things are waxing the floor with us while we are doing what exactly what is the strategy for the fight.
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90 Draenei Monk
11275
Static Shock does 1.2 million damage typically. Splitting it between 3 people still does 400k damage to each one.


Pulling this straight from the dungeon journal. Stack shock inflicts 400k damage split by all party members within 8 yards.

On top of that, soaking a Bouncing Ball will hit for around 120k-130k, which is pushing the limit of any non-tank's health pool assuming no defensive cooldown


Bouncing Bolt: Each bolt inflicts 75k damage split among all players within 6 yards. Once again pulled straight from the dungeon Journal.

This is all after the Diffusion Chain that gets cast prior to that which may hit for 100k or so but even without chaining, still spawns an add that hits for 30-40k per hit.


Once again pulling this from dungeon journal. Diffusion Chain does 75k and chains to nearby enemies.

You're pulling numbers out of the air and are flat out wrong on them. Hell I can solo soak without a cd at full health...

Edit: to clarify I'm pulling numbers from 10m Normal since I assume that's the raid mode you're talking about.
Edited by Bloöm on 8/6/2013 10:06 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
I'm not ignoring their knowledge, I'm asking them to justify their knowledge. I'm not a person who will just agree with something because someone else said it. I'm going to question it down to the last detail so that I know exactly why something is a better solution. I want to understand WHY it is not just how other people do it.


Glyphed mana tea is a dps increase while fistweaving.

Glyphed mana tea can be weaved into chi torpedo casts during high damage phases, allowing you to keep up with your mana.

Glyphed mana tea does not slow down your chi generation like unglyphed mana tea.

Glyphed mana tea is another thing we can do while on the move.

Unglyphed mana tea is a dps loss because you're not auto attacking or jabbing while casting it.

Unglpyhed mana tea is a hps loss because you're spending an extra 1+ seconds channeling it. Instead of spamming soothing mist or fistweaving.

Unglyphed mana tea forces you to stand still and be out of the fight. Something that most heroic encounters would either kill the raid or kill the tank.

If you don't understand why something is a better choice or what the effects of that choice are, then why should you just blindly do it


Because, there is a reason who know what they're doing do these things.

08/06/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Superhero
saying that I'm doing a disservice to my raid because I'm focusing on my spell usage instead of moving spirit over to the marginally better stat of haste


08/06/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Superhero
moving spirit over to the marginally better stat of haste


08/06/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Superhero
marginally better


You are so wrong it hurts.

Haste is actually a better regen stat than spirit for monks.

Expel harm is an interesting question because you really can't look at a fight and say "I should have hit expel harm X amount of times during that fight". It's important to realize that it's not just a cheap chi generator but that it's also an instant on demand chi generator. This means that it can be used with a purpose.


Again you are wrong. You should always be using expel harm on cd because you can always be using that chi. Whether that is an empowered blackout kick, Eneveloping Mist or Uplift.

08/06/2013 09:51 AMPosted by Superhero
Typically if my Expel Harm is off cooldown and I'm at full chi, then I'm not going to use it.


This makes it sound like you're sitting at full chi all the time. Which you shouldn't be.
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93 Goblin Shaman
8440
I was mad ok


/pounds head on desk out of confusion
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