RDruid optimization

90 Troll Druid
9370
I am making the swap over from a shaman to a Druid for healing comp reason and had a couple of issues that I wanted some input on:

Incarnation or Soul of the Forest? and the best usage?

Glyphed wildgrowth in 10m?

And the best way to handle small AoE damage?

Primary, very large stacked healing?
Edited by Dárkktôùch on 8/8/2013 9:20 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
10635
Incarnation beats SOTF on fights that require another 3 minute raid cooldown. You will get a raw healing increase which will make everything more powerful, and your Wild Growth will hit more targets. More Rejuv overhealing also causes your mushrooms to charge quicker. If at all possible, try to roll out 1x Lifebloom on as many targets as possible to allow for free, instant Regrowth spam. Unfortunately, this tier doesn't allow for that playstyle very often, and you're better off just treating it as a CD that buffs your heals.

On fights that don't require the extra raid cooldown, SOTF is an increase to throughput.

Glyphed WG will save you mana and give you a few seconds more to focus on other spells, if you're using WG on cooldown. On fights where WG is not used on cooldown, glyphed WG is absolutely preferable, as you're hitting more targets when you need it.

AOE damage is handled by a combination of Rejuv blanketing, Swiftmend->(SOTF procs)->Wild Growth. Spread mushrooms for predictable positioning if at all possible. Same goes for stacked healing. Mushrooms become the top heal at this point, followed by Swiftmend's ground effect. Place mushrooms, roll out Rejuvs to charge your mushrooms, Swiftmend->(SOTF)->WG on cooldown.

Rejuv is always our top heal, and almost always near 40% or more of our total healing. That said, if it is overhealing too much and you are not making use of Mushrooms as much as possible, it can be very mana inefficient.

Through all this, keep 3x LB on the active tank taking consistent damage whenever possible.
Edited by Moggsy on 8/8/2013 9:43 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
14840
Incarnation or Soul of the Forest? and the best usage?

°Incarnation for 10mans

Glyphed wildgrowth in 10m?

°Yes

And the best way to handle small AoE damage?

°WG or use rej

Primary, very large stacked healing?

°Not really for druids dont need stacked just everyone to be close isn't like a shaman lol

Get 3043 Haste point then start stacking mastery till you hit like around 540 or higher then go for the 13k haste point
Edited by Nillie on 8/8/2013 9:52 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
I am making the swap over from a shaman to a Druid for healing comp reason and had a couple of issues that I wanted some input on:

Incarnation or Soul of the Forest? and the best usage?

Kind of preferential but I would generally go with incarnation for 10 man. Use it for throughput and/or mana efficiency.

Glyphed wildgrowth in 10m?

YES

And the best way to handle small AoE damage?

Wild growth with some rejuv use.

Primary, very large stacked healing?

Charged mushrooms and efflorescence. WG and rejuv blanketing as needed
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90 Troll Druid
9370
Thanks for the responses guys, guess I'm not doing bad but am just used to stacking on a shaman being crazy. I just feel a bit gimped in comparison on say mageara or last phase of iron qon.

Get 3043 Haste point then start stacking mastery till you hit like around 540 or higher then go for the 13k haste point


You mean 5400 mastery?

Also, glyph of Regrowth? seems iffy with incarnation because I have to stop lifebloom-ing to rejuv > SM
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90 Night Elf Druid
14840
Thanks for the responses guys, guess I'm not doing bad but am just used to stacking on a shaman being crazy. I just feel a bit gimped in comparison on say mageara or last phase of iron qon.

Get 3043 Haste point then start stacking mastery till you hit like around 540 or higher then go for the 13k haste point


You mean 5400 mastery?

Also, glyph of Regrowth? seems iffy with incarnation because I have to stop lifebloom-ing to rejuv > SM


540 ilvl when u go for the 13k haste point or go some ilvl's higher but u wanna keep around 20% mastery still when you do
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100 Night Elf Priest
10520
Incarnation or Soul of the Forest? and the best usage?


Incarnation is usually better, but Soul of the Forest is better for constant multi-target damage, like pulsing AOE.

Stacked healing is mushrooms. All day, every day. In addition to all your other spells which you can still use when stacked.

What I've heard is that Glyph of WG in 10m can go either way. Unglyphed WG is the best way to handle small AOE damage, and if you use it for that, most of the time you won't need the extra two targets. (but please don't take my word for this)

Glyph of Regrowth. It's pretty cool, but not as amazing as some people say. Regrowth has an extra 60% chance to crit baseline -- so for you, it's already going to crit 73% of the time. If you drop the glyph you're really not losing much, and there are some cool utility glyphs you could put in instead.

The RG HOT is pretty cool too. Like you said, it sets up Swiftmend, and it'll also refresh itself on people under 50% health, which most of the time means nothing, but sometimes it's handy. I dropped a Sun Breath Regrowth on Tsulong and watched that super-size HOT just ... keep refreshing itself ... for a full minute.

Sidenote -- i saw you don't have professions yet. You might consider herbalism, since Lifeblood is actually a decent perk for resto druids, and it's easy to level. And picking herbs in flight form is just cheating :D
Edited by Dreamling on 8/8/2013 10:22 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
7090
08/08/2013 10:18 PMPosted by Dreamling
Incarnation or Soul of the Forest? and the best usage?


Incarnation is usually better, but Soul of the Forest is better for constant multi-target damage, like pulsing AOE.

Stacked healing is mushrooms. All day, every day. In addition to all your other spells which you can still use when stacked.

What I've heard is that Glyph of WG in 10m can go either way. Unglyphed WG is the best way to handle small AOE damage, and if you use it for that, most of the time you won't need the extra two targets. (but please don't take my word for this)

Glyph of Regrowth. It's pretty cool, but not as amazing as some people say. Regrowth has an extra 60% chance to crit baseline -- so for you, it's already going to crit 73% of the time. If you drop the glyph you're really not losing much, and there are some cool utility glyphs you could put in instead.

The RG HOT is pretty cool too. Like you said, it sets up Swiftmend, and it'll also refresh itself on people under 50% health, which most of the time means nothing, but sometimes it's handy. I dropped a Sun Breath Regrowth on Tsulong and watched that super-size HOT just ... keep refreshing itself ... for a full minute.

Sidenote -- i saw you don't have professions yet. You might consider herbalism, since Lifeblood is actually a decent perk for resto druids, and it's easy to level. And picking herbs in flight form is just cheating :D


No, always have regrowth glyphed. WG glyph is less important and swappable but generally aoe dmg happens infrequently enough that it's preferable to leave it glyphed and get the extra target. There's not much to even consider switching out from lifebloom/regrowth/wild growth glyphs except perhaps stampeding roar. I just use the standard 3 for all fights.

I don't see this benefit from lifeblood from herbalism that you are boasting. You'd be better off with tailoring, enchanting, Leather working, jewlcrafting and the usual profession stat bonuses. It's not like it's going to let you reach a special haste breakpoint.

Regrowth HoT is too short and week to be useful and it's rare that it's meager refresh ability is ever useful. Generally it should always be glyphed because the guaranteed crit is much more important.
Edited by Stratas on 8/8/2013 11:17 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
19705
I am constantly swapping Incarnation and SotF. For fights with big burst, I use Incarnation. For anything with steady damage, or damage mostly on the tanks (Durumu), I use Soul. A hasted Rejuve is a very nice buffer on a tank, if the situation doesn't warrant a hasted Wild Growth.

I always use the Wild Growth glyph, and I strictly do 10 mans, simply because the others are not all that compelling. Also, with Wild Growth being so fond of healing pets, the more targets I can hit, the more likely an actual player will get some healing.

Depends what you mean by small AoE damage. If it is AoE just hitting 2 or 3 people, Rejuve if they are spread, Swiftmend/Efflo if they are stacked. If it is light AoE hitting everyone, I usually just Wild Growth, toss a Rejuve on someone who may be particularly squishy or about to be hit by something harder, and let the rest of the raid AoE healing kick in. One trick to healing on a druid, don't over Rejuve in a 10-man, because it is guaranteed another healer will lay something on top of it, wasting your mana to a bunch of Rejuve overhealing. Unless you have a fresh set of 'shrooms out, don't waste your time and mana.

For huge, burst, stacked healing (Megaera), few things can beat out fully charged 'shrooms. I also love them on Jin'rokh normal (useless on Heroic with all the balls out, but that's a great fight for Incarnation), the first and last phases of Iron Qon, and when I have my little herd of DPS during Lei Shen's Intermissions. My Megaera rotation is basically, place and start charging shrooms ASAP, when people stack, Rejuve myself and Swiftmend for optimal placement and timing, if I am being lazy and not switching to Incarnation for that fight, immediately Wild Growth to get the SotF haste benefit, Rejuve the squishiest, and then when the group as a whole drops near or below 50% health, SHROOMBOOM! If that particular Rampage is my turn to Tranq, I shroomboom just before Tranqing to get people as close to full health as possible for the channel.
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335
I've screwed around with sotf and incarnation for a while... but I think it's pretty clear that FoN is strongest, at least for my playstyle.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Council_of_Elders/10H/Restoration_Druid/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Megaera/10H/Restoration_Druid/

Without testing it out I would've probably said sotf is superior, but it's difficult to argue with the results! For a fight like Heroic Spine or something though, a fight where you need a super super powerful raid cooldown rotation at a particular part, I see incarnation being the best ability IMO.

I also completely disagree with the concept of only getting spirit, 3043 haste, and then mastery as being the "best" baseline build. I strongly feel there is more value in haste after caps, but so many people like to think like a DPSer and really lose sight of the concept of healing IMO. I guess everyone has their own style...
Edited by Gamex on 8/9/2013 3:23 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
9040
I've screwed around with sotf and incarnation for a while... but I think it's pretty clear that FoN is strongest, at least for my playstyle.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Council_of_Elders/10H/Restoration_Druid/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Megaera/10H/Restoration_Druid/

Without testing it out I would've probably said sotf is superior, but it's difficult to argue with the results!


On the contrary, I find 2.14% of healing to be quite arguable. (2.9million out of 54)
One tree usage or SotF tranquility would surpass that. Well maybe not in 10man, but 25man it's not even close.
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90 Troll Druid
10395
I also completely disagree with the concept of only getting spirit, 3043 haste, and then mastery as being the "best" baseline build. I strongly feel there is more value in haste after caps, but so many people like to think like a DPSer and really lose sight of the concept of healing IMO. I guess everyone has their own style...


This is ridiculous. People don't stop at haste breakpoints because they are "thinking like a dps" or because that is their "play style," they stop after breakpoints because it is mathematically superior to do so. Outside of breakpoints haste does basically nothing to increase the healing from hots. Looking at your own logs, that you posted, over 60% of your healing was rejuv and wild growth. Neither of which gain any tangible benefit from haste past breakpoints. Mastery on the other hand boosts ALL of your spells AND is more mana efficient than haste at the same time. Resto Druids gear that way because the math shows it is superior.
Edited by Trolljin on 8/9/2013 5:57 PM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335

Outside of breakpoints haste does basically nothing to increase the healing from hots.
Neither of which gain any tangible benefit from haste past breakpoints

lol

The only "ridiculous" thing about this is how you say there's no benefit beyond breakpoints, and then you go on to claim that you aren't thinking like a dpser.

Think about how the class works some more and the different benefits haste gives you for yourself instead of blindly listening to stat maxers that have thought about the topic for a couple of hours with some napkin math. Then think about how healing actually works and what the most powerful output stat is, point for point. Once you understand these, you'll start to realize how ridiculous you sound for claiming it's ridiculous.
Edited by Gamex on 8/9/2013 8:11 PM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335
I've screwed around with sotf and incarnation for a while... but I think it's pretty clear that FoN is strongest, at least for my playstyle.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Council_of_Elders/10H/Restoration_Druid/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Throne_of_Thunder/Megaera/10H/Restoration_Druid/

Without testing it out I would've probably said sotf is superior, but it's difficult to argue with the results!


On the contrary, I find 2.14% of healing to be quite arguable. (2.9million out of 54)
One tree usage or SotF tranquility would surpass that. Well maybe not in 10man, but 25man it's not even close.


So ya gotta look at the percents a little closer ;)

It says 2.14% healing, but that's OF my 40.18%

Remember how you say 2.9million out of 54?

well, 2,908,417/54713667 is actually 5.316%

Is sotf really better? Especially since the style of the class is being pushed more and more towards rejuve use > every other spell?

Also think about the way mageara works where you'll only get to use tree twice in the fight, so you're weaker on those other times.
Edited by Gamex on 8/9/2013 8:25 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
12455
The only "ridiculous" thing about this is how you say there's no benefit beyond breakpoints, and then you go on to claim that you aren't thinking like a dpser.

Think about how the class works some more and the different benefits haste gives you for yourself instead of blindly listening to stat maxers that have thought about the topic for a couple of hours with some napkin math. Then think about how healing actually works and what the most powerful output stat is, point for point. Once you understand these, you'll start to realize how ridiculous you sound for claiming it's ridiculous.
Perhaps you'd like to share with the class. Because until you lay out what you've done, there's no voice but your own to verify.

Haste beyond breakpoints isn't widely recognized as being the best stat. I wouldn't say that this is due to a "dps way of thinking" nor are people losing the concept of healing. Many people (many of which include those that hold some of the top parses in the world) agree that there is no value in haste beyond breakpoints as it has mathematical backing. Until proven otherwise, this is the nature of thinking.
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90 Troll Druid
12455
Just to throw out an edit -- you say FoN is strongest for your playstyle. Which may be the case on heavy stack fights. However, you clearly use SotF on fights where there is fairly strong sustained AoE damage with minimal stacking. Whether this is a testament to it being the stronger talent is for public opinion. However (just pulling from your current rankings):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wyi9oempomdnefni/details/108/?s=4984&e=5176

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9woxl3v0xbj35ctb/details/0/?s=965&e=1366

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nlp3drsx2tzn2ax6/details/4/?s=3036&e=3254

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vhj4bgb7tdugkih9/details/7/?s=677&e=1191
Edited by Catakins on 8/9/2013 8:52 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
12675
Aw gawd, not going to get into it more than to say that Haste does make your HoTs tick quicker outside of break-points, so it does have an impact, but obviously another "tick" is not gained.

As for if you think that is good or not, you are on your own :P

Edit: For the record, LB is considered continuous by many, so it has no true break-point in that context, and Efflo will be the same in 5.4 if the current glyph holds.
Edited by Fangthorn on 8/9/2013 9:08 PM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335
08/09/2013 08:34 PMPosted by Catakins
Many people (many of which include those that hold some of the top parses in the world) agree that there is no value in haste beyond breakpoints as it has mathematical backing.


My casts get out there quicker. My haste is amplified harder as it gets highersince the raid buff is multiplicative. My ticks are quicker, so mastery is only better once the LAST tick of rejuve hits (even though sometimes this isn't the case). When someone has more haste, more spells get out there sooner, this means that buffs that only last a certain amount of seconds will have more spells amplified on to them.

Try to think of a DPSer who's trying to maximize a dot while applying it to 10 adds that are up for the ENTIRE fight. TEN bosses all at the same time. Application time matters.

Now, try to imagine that often times if you apply those dots too slowly, they will simply fall off before you get the next ones up. These are the moments where haste wins out. Also the mobs sometimes become immune to damage randomly (in comparison, when the player's health is topped).

I'll throw out my regrowths quicker so that I can get back to spamming my stronger spells sooner. As the hot goes on, my ticks tick quicker, and quicker, and quicker, until the final tick of my hot hits..... then the mastery build player's hot hits its last tick, and mine doesn't do one. So their healing surpassed mine at the !@# END of the rejuve, but I was ahead of them on throughput the entire time until then. Also, if rejuve is to be on 10 targets, assuming upkeep on other spells, I'll be on to the next rejuves way sooner than a mastery build player.

So anyways, I have some more but I'll leave ya with that for now.

There ARE obviously moments in particular fights where a mastery build would be better considering the mechanics, but for players to just look at that 3043 as being the be-all build for everything is extremely short-sighted and honestly makes someone look pretty ignorant to just spout out with no actual thought behind it other than napkin math.... especially when considering how much more dynamic and subjective healing is as opposed to other parts of this game.
Edited by Gamex on 8/9/2013 9:43 PM PDT
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335
Just to throw out an edit -- you say FoN is strongest for your playstyle. Which may be the case on heavy stack fights. However, you clearly use SotF on fights where there is fairly strong sustained AoE damage with minimal stacking. Whether this is a testament to it being the stronger talent is for public opinion. However (just pulling from your current rankings):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wyi9oempomdnefni/details/108/?s=4984&e=5176

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9woxl3v0xbj35ctb/details/0/?s=965&e=1366

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nlp3drsx2tzn2ax6/details/4/?s=3036&e=3254

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vhj4bgb7tdugkih9/details/7/?s=677&e=1191


I've just always used sotf and assumed it was best, but sometimes I'll forget to switch talents or whatever. I perform pretty poorly just because of how boring farm content is. Sometimes it's fun when there's a wipe and we need to reach a higher healing check... then that HEALING ADDICTION kicks back in and we suddenly have to optimize and try again!
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91 Night Elf Druid
9335
and Efflo will be the same in 5.4 if the current glyph holds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7gg1Ib6wG4

hehe
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