Am I doing something wrong? (Prot)

90 Draenei Paladin
7215
I seem to be a little squishy and have some serious issues with snap aggro on bosses where I need to pick up adds before they land a single hit on anyone else (ie, Tortos). I'm usually fine on staying on a boss but my damage intake feels spiky at all times and I feel like i'm not optimizing my play or gear or something.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
I am going to continue to edit this post as a find additional suggestions.

1. Reforge chest armor as your hit is well above cap, maybe reforge to Mastery

2. Sha Armor kit for hands. I see that you are going the route of the haste stacking to increase DPS, it might be time to put some of that haste towards survivability.

3. Reforge some Expertise to Mastery to smooth out damage spikes.

4. Possibly change your enchant on weapon to River's Song to increase your dodge, however with Windsong and having all three buffs active, especially the haste and mastery, it might be advisable to leave it alone. Not sure, might just have to try both to see what happens.

Final Edit
Edited by Timèlord on 8/12/2013 9:32 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
You absolutely need to be at the full 15% expertise cap for raiding. There's no other stat that's more important than 7.5% hit and 15% expertise, getting a reliable flow of Holy Power should be your most important goal. Go through and regem your gear for Haste (yellows), Exp/Haste (reds), and Haste/Stam (blues), and then reforge your gear to get as much Haste and possible while still keeping 7.5% hit and 15% expertise. I'd suggest downloading ReforgeLite rather than reforging manually - manual reforging is kind of a fun math puzzle, if you're into that, but it's also time-consuming and can eat up a lot of gold.

These are the custom values (advanced mode) I use for ReforgeLite, they're obviously very very far from exact stat weights, I just manipulate them to get the reforging results I want every time:
Dodge: 125, Parry: 125, Hit: 220, Haste: 195, Expertise: 220, Mastery: 155
And then go down to then next two lines and choose Hit and Expertise, and choose at least melee hit (2210 for Draenei) and expertise (5100) cap and give them a 0 value over that.

That gives me the results I want. Sometimes you have to press calculate 5 or 6 times to get the right reforging, but it works.

Outside of that and probably much more important, just make sure that you're going through your rotation correctly. Train yourself to prioritize Crusader Strike (or HotR for AoE) and then Judgement above all else, and then Avenger's Shield when Grand Crusader procs. If you need to start small and drop a lot of filler DPS abilities from your rotation while you perfect your Holy Power abilities then go ahead and do that for a bit, using Shield of the Righteous (and when needed, Word of Glory) is what's important for keeping ourselves alive.

CS > Judge > x > CS > x > Judge > CS > x > x > CS > Judge > X etc. etc. --- every third repeat, you're delaying a Judgement for Crusader Strike, since their cooldowns line up.

And then make sure you're using your cooldowns liberally, especially Divine Protection since it has such a short cooldown (the unglyphed version is extremely powerful for magic damage). Definitely don't glyph Consecrate since it's such a pain to manage, that third glyph slot should be Divine Protection if you need a physical cooldown or just Final Wrath (powerful DPS boost in execute range) or Focused Shield for ridiculous single-target DPS. I'd spec Divine Purpose as a kind of beginner tank, and honestly I prefer it unless I really need a cooldown, since I'm lazy outside of difficult fights and never use Holy Avenger unless I actually need it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8785
08/12/2013 09:05 AMPosted by Kaairi
but my damage intake feels spiky at all times


Tailias, while your comment is very well thought out and good, it doesn't take into account her comment above.

Mastery, and avoidance is going to be key. Haste helps with DPS, but not so much in avoidance and mitigation. The only help i see is giving the sacred shield a quicker tick value. Though my expertise is in Blood DK's. It's only recently i started to gear this pally.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
18820
Haste is a key stat for mitigation because it gives you both faster SS ticks, and faster HP generation which results in higher ShoR uptime.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6620
Haste is a key stat for mitigation because it gives you both faster SS ticks, and faster HP generation which results in higher ShoR uptime.


this, everything ive been reading indicates that Haste is just as viable a damage smoother as Stamina moreso than mastery and MUCH better than avoidance

id much rather have higher accessibility to 44% DR (SoTR) and faster SS, than random spikes that avoidance simply fails to prevent.

Mastery is King for DKS, not nearly as much for Pallies
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15765
My advice:

1. Ignore Timelord. There is a reason our set next tier has haste on it. http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/99369-handguards-of-winged-triumph

2. Stack all the haste after capping hit and getting expertise to 15%.

3. Spec into Sacred Shield and keep it up 100% of the time.

4. Learn your rotation really, really well.

5. Ignore Timelord and stack haste.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
I enjoy reading everyone's bad advice.. Most of you people's barely have a clue..

stamina being a damage smoother lol

Tailais seem to be on par ( scan read it ) except with comments about DP and HA... DP is just better for haste build ..

THX for the smiles people's

BTW going haste build can be very bad if your bad etc etc for example can't hit SotR at appropriate times.. Haste is not for everyone ..
Edited by Alexmania on 8/12/2013 6:33 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15765
@Alexmania

That's why one of my pieces of advice was to learn the rotation really, really well!
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
4890
I enjoy reading everyone's bad advice.. Most of you people's barely have a clue..

stamina being a damage smoother lol

Tailais seem to be on par ( scan read it ) except with comments about DP and HA... DP is just better for haste build ..

THX for the smiles people's

BTW going haste build can be very bad if your bad etc etc for example can't hit SotR at appropriate times.. Haste is not for everyone ..


I guess everyone is gonna be bad in t16 then...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8950
I enjoy reading everyone's bad advice.. Most of you people's barely have a clue..

stamina being a damage smoother lol


http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/04/09/stamina-keeping-you-up-longer/

Just gonna leave that here for you Alex.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9565
Why is rotation such a big concern ? You hit spells that generate holy power the fastest.. I've never seen it as nothing more than common sense ..

T16 is gonna be a different story dk- glad to see your intelligence on the matter :)
Never said haste makes you a bad player- I was implying that beginner tanks should think twice bout going haste build..

Fenr really don't need you leaving me presents, thx thou Stamina for survivability yes . For damage reduction no.. Which is what I thought he was meaning throwing avoidance into the mix.. Rereading what he wrote I coulda misread ..
Edited by Alexmania on 8/13/2013 1:46 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14810
I enjoy reading everyone's bad advice.. Most of you people's barely have a clue..

stamina being a damage smoother lol


http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/04/09/stamina-keeping-you-up-longer/

Just gonna leave that here for you Alex.
It's worth noting the caveat that that blog has been dated a bit, the addition of SoI modeling severely narrowed the gap between stam and the other stats (particularly haste). In Theck's current SimC modeling stam and haste tend to come out roughly equal in the TMI smoothing metric.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8950
It's worth noting the caveat that that blog has been dated a bit, the addition of SoI modeling severely narrowed the gap between stam and the other stats (particularly haste). In Theck's current SimC modeling stam and haste tend to come out roughly equal in the TMI smoothing metric.


Not just that but fixing the SS bug that was undervaluing haste also brought things closer aswell. However it is still relative to your gear level and content you are completing. Going into norm ToT and tanking horridon w/ no swaps (like any good tankadin would) @ a 502 iLvL stacking Stam > haste would probably be wise, and this applies to many fights in ToT where the hardest hitting boss abilities are predictable.

If you're hopping into ToT @ 522, you can probably gem haste, drop all stam trinkets and complete normal with ease, but transitioning into heroics you're probably going to want to change 1 or 2 of those trinkets to Stam.
Edited by Fenrilight on 8/13/2013 3:17 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10595
Question. I am using dup ret gear drops to make my tank set. I was just read GC's comments on the patch an he says avoidance was going to be big in the patch. Still use haste ret gear for tanking?
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90 Tauren Paladin
10250
Still use haste ret gear for tanking?

Yes. The changes only close the gap between them slightly. It won't come anywhere near pushing avoidance over haste (or mastery).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10595
Good to know. Tanks! (Purposeful misspelling) :)
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90 Draenei Paladin
7215
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Well I'd like everyone to keep in mind that I'm not a beginner tank, I have been tanking with several different classes since BC (Warrior until Wrath, DK/Warrior simultaneously for certain encounters because I was in a crazy guild then, and then in Cata I started this character and transferred to a different server so I have none of my old characters to go back to).

I quite like the consecrate glyph, it gives me a level of control that I just don't have without it (it helps me split my attention between bosses and adds without unpredictable movement). I'd like to say I have somewhat high APM so clicking it on the boss when doing a normal rotation is never a problem for me.

I'm not sure why I wasn't expertise capped when I posted this, I must have changed around a few pieces of gear after getting some upgrades, but I got some more upgrades and fixed the stats on each piece.

Thanks for all of the help everyone, this thread really outlined to me how important SotR is and how important the timing is. After modifying my playstyle to hit it at the right times, I'm taking a lot less damage most of the time and solo tanked Horridon the other day for the first time. I won't turn down more advice, though!
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