Watercooler 5.4 class changes + Prot Pal

100 Tauren Paladin
8910
Blog: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10580508/Dev_Watercooler_Dissecting_Patch_54_Class_Changes-8_12_2013

5.4 patch notes: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897

Before I start, I am going to state very clearly right now I am not arguing for or against the proposed changes. I am more concerned about the method of deployment and implementation.

There was a distinct lack of clarification for 5.4 protection paladin changes, of which there are many and tanking in general. What was posted was a general, we're going to continue to want you to use the active mitigation model but we're still going to emphasize stam/dodge/parry on tank gear, and water down your talents to justify it. Because, you know, itemization vs stat allocation is hard.

It seems to me that the changes are less of a bandage and more of a make the class (gameplay/gearing) mediocre, intentionally or not. Instead of redesigning whatever experiment that went too well or extremely poorly depending on which point of view you're taking. This is all completely a reversal of their stated intention of not making radical class changes at the end of an expansion. It does nothing but harm to the class.

It's this sort of design vision that irritates the ever living crap out of me. Instead of just flat coming out and saying, we'd like paladin tanks to work like THIS (give concrete example), it's left ambiguous. I have no problems playing the class however they intend for it to be played. I am more than happy to work towards making it work they way they want it to work, but they're not helping us help them. I'm not even sure if they know how they want the class to work at this point.

signed,

Frustrated.
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100 Human Paladin
11330
I'm not sure "making haste slightly worse, and avoidance slightly better, but not enough to actually change any stat priorities or meaningfully alter how you play" really belongs in the "radical class changes" category.
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100 Human Paladin
21330
All I wonder at this point is whether I'll keep Battle Healer in my set of frequently used glyphs. I probably won't, since it's looking like it'll be too useless for wasting a glyph slot.

Too bad. I liked helping the raid out with some passive healing. I haven't seen enough fuss raised about it either, but at this point the fuss would be too little and too late to keep things how they were.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I'm just more concerned with how the vengeance nerf and sacred shield scaling changes will affect damage taken...
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100 Tauren Paladin
8910
08/13/2013 10:12 AMPosted by Ravicana
I'm not sure "making haste slightly worse, and avoidance slightly better,


The reality is that avoidance is going from a negative to a slightly less bad negative in terms of how we will gear. We will still not want avoidance on our gear. It's a change that in effect is meaningless other than taking away the frequency of GC procs from us. It is in effect, and contrary to the conclusion in the blog, punishing us. If they want dodge and parry to be meaningful so that we will desire it, then they need to make it useful. It's a horrible catch-22 and we're stuck in the middle of it till they sort out whatever the hell sort of tank we're supposed to be.

vengeance nerf and sacred shield scaling changes will affect damage taken...


We are going to be taking more damage and we won't be self-healing as much, that is without question. We will just have to roll with it.
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100 Human Paladin
11330
08/13/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Zalbar
It's a change that in effect is meaningless other than taking away the frequency of GC procs from us.

Based on the math from the last time they tried the same change (5.3?), it's actually a very small change in overall frequency. As you say, it mostly just makes avoidance slightly less bad, which was explicitly the goal, as stated in the blog.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
08/13/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Zalbar
It's a change that in effect is meaningless other than taking away the frequency of GC procs from us.

The frequency of Grand Crusader procs on a single target should remain roughly the same, but it will increase considerably on any fight where you're tanking more than one enemy at a time.

08/13/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Zalbar
We are going to be taking more damage and we won't be self-healing as much, that is without question.

Taking more damage, okay, with less of it being absorbed by Sacred Shield (not that paladins weren't already really good at taking less damage compared to other tanks). But less self-healing? Where are you getting that idea from? We won't be healing the raid, but unglyphed Seal of Insight is unchanged, and increased haste will mean it will proc even more often. And the T16 set will even let us use WoG without penalty, unlike now.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0

Taking more damage, okay, with less of it being absorbed by Sacred Shield (not that paladins weren't already really good at taking less damage compared to other tanks). But less self-healing? Where are you getting that idea from? We won't be healing the raid, but unglyphed Seal of Insight is unchanged, and increased haste will mean it will proc even more often. And the T16 set will even let us use WoG without penalty, unlike now.


I would assume from the lowered vengeance
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