GoAK Change for Ret

90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
I'm not sure I follow the logic for the change here. The CD is being reduced by 40%, and the maximum strength boost is being reduced by 40%. Meaning the cooldown will have the same effect on our damage over the duration of a raid encounter, except the burst potential takes a 40% hit. Ghostcrawler blog states this is because paladins felt their damage was tied to long CDs, so the solution is to make the CD less effective for burst but the same effectiveness in other regards?

Maybe someone with more time/care than me can math this out, but it doesn't make sense to me.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
The change is actually a buff for most raid boss fights. In an average 8 minute fight, you can currently use Guardian twice. In 5.4, it will be three times. Unless the fight is just the right length to get two 5 minute Guardians but not three 3 minute Guardians, it'll be a buff to its damage contribution.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
5375
Basically it's a nerf in some situations and a buff in others. For example if it's a fight that's more than 3 minutes and you pop GoAK off at the start, and then 3 minutes later you use it and it's up for at least nine seconds the second time you pop it, it's a buff. If you don't get to use it more than once then it's a nerf. But if the guardian doesn't scale off of attack power and will do the same damage either way, it's sort of a buff. I'm not sure exactly, I haven't really put the time nor effort into this.
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100 Human Paladin
16290
I for one will enjoy using my guardian more than at max, two times a fight.
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100 Human Paladin
11195
Also, note that the Guardian's own melee damage is nontrivial, and isn't reduced by 40% here. His melee is something like 4% of total DPS, so using him 66% more often is a couple percent buff to sustained.
Edited by Ravicana on 8/15/2013 1:15 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7570
I welcome this change for arenas and RBGs.

As of right now, my team puts me on the offensive while my cooldowns are up, and then I go and defend for a few minutes while waiting for my King to come off cooldown. In arenas, it really bites having to wait 5 minutes again vs other healer teams to make more magic happen if I miss my window.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
I would think this a hurt for arena paladins. Yes, you don't wait as long to burst, but won't bursting 40% softer hurt you more than doing it more often helps you?

This from someone who doesn't arena, mind.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
Guardian having a 12 instead of 20 stack isn't 40% less burst.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
How so? Its maximum stack size is now 12, down from 20. As I read that it tells me you get 12% strength down from 20% strength. Which is a 40% decrease in the damage it grants, thus 40% less burst out of the spell.

Is this not so?
Edited by Hylaudius on 8/15/2013 4:50 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
How so? It's maximum stack size is now 12, down from 20. As I read that it tells me you get 12% strength down from 20% strength. Which is a 40% decrease in the damage it grants, thus 40% less burst out of the spell.

Is this not so?

The difference between 120% strength and 112% is far less than 40%.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
Reworded then - it's a 40% reduction in the bonus damage, not the overall damage. Which is still a damage reduction.

20% added to 100 is 120. 12% added to 100 is 112. The difference between the bonuses granted (20 vs 12) is 40%. That's the math I'm throwing down.
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93 Dwarf Paladin
14825
A 40% nerf to a single spell is not a 40% nerf to overall damage or burst, especially if the nerf is balanced around more frequent access.

Look at it this way, over a seven minute fight you can pop current GoAK twice for a cumulative 40% strength for 60s. In 5.4, you can pop new GoAK three times for 36% cumulative strength for 90s.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
I'm aware that it's balanced over longer periods. That much has been made clear. Currently I'm musing over the effects of the nerf on burst where burst is sought after. Mostly a question that popped into my head thanks to the arenadin several posts up. I'd have thought the 20% strength more valuable in a burst scenario than 12% more often.

Mostly curiosity. I'm satisfied as a casual LFR player that it won't hurt me.
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100 Human Paladin
11195
It is definitely a reduction in burst, and sure, that part can be seen as a PvP nerf. It's less than a 40% reduction though, and not just because 120 -> 112, but because the strength buff is only part of the burst provided by GoAK. His direct melee attacks are significant: in my PvE gear he does something like 50k dps by himself.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7570
I would think this a hurt for arena paladins. Yes, you don't wait as long to burst, but won't bursting 40% softer hurt you more than doing it more often helps you?

This from someone who doesn't arena, mind.

Most of the GoAK's damage comes from his powerful melee hits. A bit less strength isn't really going to be missed that much during burst windows.
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