MoP Legendary Quest Chain

100 Worgen Warlock
14880
Love it or hate it, the legendary quest chain in MoP represents a new paradigm (yes I know what that word means, and I'm using it correctly) in the delivery of legendary items. In a different thread recently, I responded to a comment about this quest chain and what I think it did wrong. However, it also did many things right.

I think it would be a good idea for us (the WoW community) to discuss what things we liked or disliked about the quest in a constructive manner (keyword: constructive). This discussion could help shape how legendary items are handed out in the next expansion. MoP is close enough to done now that we can make judgements on the quest chain because it's mostly complete.

I'll kick off by quoting myself from the other thread on a few things I think the quest line did poorly:
Step 1, you can't have every other quest in the chain be "fetch me X dongles from raid Y". That is clearly designed to make it take longer, and it adds nothing to the experience. The latest in the MoP chain is the most egregious. You fetch Wrathion some dongles from ToT, and he turns around and tells you to go back to the SAME raid to fetch MORE dongles. My Jaw hit the floor when that happened. It ground the narrative to a complete halt and made both the new quest and the previous quest seem pointless.

Step 2, you can't make the quests dependent on RNG if they span the whole expansion (this is a follow on to step 1). There are plenty of ways to space out how long it takes to get each segment of quest done. You don't have to fall back on RNG that can be overcome in a highly variable length of time. This doesn't make the quest feel epic. It either makes it feel inconsequential (if you're lucky) or soul-crushingly tedious (if you're unlucky).

Step 3, if we have to fetch some dongles, make them special snowflake dongles. Every dongle must be different and have a place in the narrative. Tell us why this dongle is so important. Tell us why the big bad carries it around like a lucky charm (cause we're always after 'em). Tell us what this dongle will be used for. Some of the dongles in Wrathion's quests do work like this; the chimera of fear was a good use of dongle. The titan runestones were a BAD use of dongles.

Step 4, make sure the narrative of the quests has a well crafted tempo and flow. Random drop dongles take away the ability to carefully control the tempo and flow of these quests; DON'T use that technique. You need to be able to control the flow of the quest to make it feel epic and to prevent it from bogging down and becoming boring.

Step 5, for the love of the light, implement a catch up mechanism for alts. Wrathion's chain has destroyed my desire to gear my alts up for raiding. They force you to run old raids in LFR over and over to get the random drop dongles you need. This is bad. Instead, you could make the quests gated the way raid wings in LFR are gated. This means by the time alts come on the scene, all the artificial gating is already gone. The gating also lets you control the tempo at which the quests are completed in a way that doesn't require RNG.


Now for a few things i think they did well:
I think the quest chain spanning the whole expansion was a good idea. It lets them tie the creation of this item to the narrative of the entire expansion, not just the narrative of a single raid; this makes the legendary item more meaningful to that expansion's setting.

I like that the quest is available to all classes. This helps get around the balance distorting power of legendary items. The devs can balance around the assumption that anyone can get these goodies not just a single class. I know some folks feel this "cheapens" them, but I think the pros outweigh the cons on this.

Now it's your turn. What did you like the least about this chain? Why? How could it have been better? What did you like the most (and why)?

Remember, trying to articulate why you felt a certain way about an element of the quest will help the devs craft a better experience next time around. You can also try to come up with suggestions for improvement for them to think about. Also, stay constructive; we provide better feedback when the devs don't have to wade through waist high muck to trawl for gems (the technical term is "signal to noise ratio").

Thanks for reading my wall of text, and I hope this sparks some thought provoking conversations (hopefully more of the thoughtful part not so much the provoking part).

edit: spelling
Edited by Aemon on 8/13/2013 8:26 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
I disliked that the retards who design this game forget about tanks.

Forgot about them how?

There are two tanking cloaks available from the quest (one agility one strength), and next patch, they will get a tanking proc to go with them.

Are you referring to the earlier stages of the quests? I only ever did the chain on my warlock (it's too tedious to repeat on alts). Which set of earlier rewards do you feel left tanks out in the cold?
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100 Worgen Mage
14515
I've enjoyed the progression of the story with Wrathion. The solo scenarios have been enjoyable.

I still need 9 more runestones. The collection of sigils/secrets/runestones hasn't been super enjoyable but I guess that if you had completed the available components and were up to date with the questline as each patch came out then it wouldn't feel like such a drag.

The cloak at the end is gonna be cool but to be honest I've been doing the questline primarily for the story.
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90 Human Hunter
13745
I disliked that the retards who design this game forget about tanks.


That's not very mature of a response.
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100 Human Paladin
24615
08/13/2013 08:36 PMPosted by Aemon
I disliked that the retards who design this game forget about tanks.

Forgot about them how?

There are two tanking cloaks available from the quest (one agility one strength), and next patch, they will get a tanking proc to go with them.

Are you referring to the earlier stages of the quests? I only ever did the chain on my warlock (it's too tedious to repeat on alts). Which set of earlier rewards do you feel left tanks out in the cold?


There was no tank Sha gem.

The tank meta gem is unreliable, so most just went with the dps one.

And now the tank cloak proc is almost completely worthless. Not to mention has two of the worst stats. So again, tanks will use the dps one.
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
I still need 9 more runestones. The collection of sigils/secrets/runestones hasn't been super enjoyable but I guess that if you had completed the available components and were up to date with the questline as each patch came out then it wouldn't feel like such a drag.

I think the doodad collection is the weakest part of the package. It doesn't help build tension, and it serves as a barrier to entry for alts or new players.

08/13/2013 08:37 PMPosted by Grayhair
The solo scenarios have been enjoyable.


to be honest I've been doing the questline primarily for the story.

As a legendary quest, it should have a good story and tie into the overarching narrative. I had forgotten about the new solo scenarios. Those were used a little in the legendary staff of Cata. Perhaps they should use some more of that next time.

There was no tank Sha gem.

The tank meta gem is unreliable, so most just went with the dps one.

And now the tank cloak proc is almost completely worthless. Not to mention has two of the worst stats. So again, tanks will use the dps one.

For the sha gem, I'm not sure what they could have done with that. A pure stamina gem wouldn't be terribly compelling either. Perhaps they need to tie the primary stats in a little more for tanks.

For the meta, a DR proc isn't that great when you can't control when it happens, but a purely passive benefit isn't that exciting either. Perhaps next time they could make the proc increase your secondary resource generation to boost active mitigation for a short time.

The tank cloaks kind of have to have dodge or parry on them to keep a dps spec from grabbing it (by mistake or for some other odd itemization reason). I don't see why the proc is worthless though. It's a "get out of jail free" card on a 2min CD without having to activate it.
Edited by Aemon on 8/13/2013 8:48 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Warlock
14870
5th week on runestones and I'm only 7/12.

Still have Lei Shen and Dark Animus to do this week, so that guarantees me at least 8/12, but holy crap.
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
08/13/2013 08:42 PMPosted by Aemon
The tank cloaks kind of have to have dodge or parry on them to keep a dps spec from grabbing it

It looks like i spoke too soon on that one. I double checked and currently the legendary tank cloaks in the next patch have dropped dodge in favor of expertise. Tanks require more expertise than melee dps (attacking from the front and all), so I think that's a move in the right direction for clearing up their itemization.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6655
In terms of dislikes, I have to say I completely agree. Although the runestones weren't as bad story wise (as each runestone was a piece of a puzzle behind the mystery of the mogu), the RNG tied to them was godawful. Nothing feels more frustrating than having to wait an extra 3 weeks because you only got the guarenteed Lei-shen runestone 3 weeks in a row.

The legendary quest needs to take a long time, but RNG (for such a massive advantage in gear) should not be a part of it. The amount of fetch quests in a row was also irritating. I laughed when you commented about the runestones; I thought the same thing. Why the hell didn't you tell me to grab these things while I was out gathering secrets!!!

However, the Legendary quests did quite a bit right. I'll place them as bullet-points:
-The focus on the player character, alongside Wrathion, was enjoyable
-The (somewhat) challenging solo-scenarios were some of the most fun I've had in this game. Both really felt like a test of my healing abilities.
-The trickle of legendaries throughout the chain made the run more enjoyable. I mean, imagine if we had to go through the whole thing without any bonuses like the gems, socket, or 600ilevel cape. It would have been dull.
-Having the quest take place throughout the entire expac gave the player an 'ultimate goal.' It kept me coming back to LFR besides wanting to gear up. It gave me something to look forwards to, something to feel proud of.
-The overall story felt pretty engaging, esp Wrathion's development as a character.

I really do hope we see another legendary quest of this caliber in the next expansion. I enjoyed it.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
12070
I hate it. I don't have it atm because I stopped playing for a little while, but it makes it feel LESS legendary to me.

When I do finally get it it'll just be me heaving a sigh on Ventrilo and everybody going "What? What's wrong dude? you finally have it!" and then me going: "Yeah, but it was drawn out way too freaking long to justify having it NOW."
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90 Troll Priest
12105
You used paradigm correctly. I am impressed.
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
You used paradigm correctly. I am impressed.

I know right?

Now I just need to work on reclaiming the words synergy, leverage, and utilize.
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90 Troll Priest
12105
08/13/2013 09:01 PMPosted by Aemon
You used paradigm correctly. I am impressed.

I know right?

Now I just need to work on reclaiming the words synergy, leverage, and utilize.


Add toxic and entitlement and we have a dream team for most misused words in the WoW forum.
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63 Undead Warlock
12455
I wrote a thread about this earlier today. As you pointed out the reliance on RNG was far to tremendous for it especially since it was tied to the overall story continuing each patch. I also had a big problem with the WIN PVP quest due to the imbalance concerning faction/battle groups. This is actually where I stopped. I started the chain on 4 toons but only one got the gem. I have no intention due to the PVP quest to continue.

I know I miss out on a great story which really bothers me but I play for fun and PVP is no fun for me. Neither is the constant push into LFR. I have done them but have no intention to do them all the time.

Less RNG, no PVP, more story elements.
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
08/13/2013 09:06 PMPosted by Beornhilde
I wrote a thread about this earlier today.

Hmm, I used the forum search function to check for recent threads on legendary items and didn't find it. Of course, I've never really gotten the forum search function to successfully find anything. :-/

I know I miss out on a great story which really bothers me but I play for fun and PVP is no fun for me

This is another fair point. Legendary items have always been the realm of PvE. Demanding that players step into a radically different aspect of the game is an easy way to push people out of areas they find fun. I know I whined constantly during that part too. It's also another reason I haven't done the chain on any of my alts. It also causes PvE players to flood into PvP content and dilutes the experience for the PvP players too.

Perhaps there could be a PvP legendary some day, but I don't see how they could make a story driven item like a legendary fit into PvP (which doesn't really contain a whole lot of story). I'm also not sure how they would make it feel different from any other PvP item since you purchase them rather than getting them as drops.

For now, I think they should keep the legendary quests out of PvP.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
7845
overall I have liked the Legendary quest but Part 3 of the quest line is to long and it repeats it's self by sending you back for more "Dongles" that don't really tell us anything new and does not offer a good reward either. the second half of part 3 feels like filler. It feels like they could have just axed the second item collection and sent us right for Lei-Shin after giving us the meta gem.
If they wanted to keep the item collection just have it like the Sha of fear part of the chain with a guaranteed drop.For example it could be like get me the eye of Durumu, the Talon of Primordius, A sample of Animus, and so on.
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100 Undead Warlock
16220
I don't have much feedback, but I didn't find the RNG portions of the quest very interesting or fun. It could have been much better to have perhaps a way to earn them from trash, or have to do something in specific on a boss or two, like they did with Nalak and the spear.
Rng has dictated legendaries before, but this really is ridiculous.
10 Sigils of Power
10 Sigils of Knowledge
20 Secrets of the Empire
12 Titan Runestones.

That's a lot of McGufffins.
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100 Worgen Warlock
14880
Exactly, the only compelling fetch quests were the ones that asked for just one item, and those items were actually important.

The chimera of fear which was forged into the sha gems.

Lei Shen's heart which Wrathion actually eats!

These are fetch items that actually had meaning. The sigils, secrets, and runestones had meaning, but it was diluted by RNG and how many you had to acquire. The chimera and heart were attainable and had a very clear impact on the story.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
7845
I believe I would Have rather wrathion learn things about the mogu by examining and telling us more about the Raid bosses themselves rather than find a Titan artifact they all are randomly carrying for some reason and will take with extraordinary bad luck between 8- 12 weeks so you can go back and get me(wrathion) Lei-shins heart for lunch.
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