HPS meters confuse me as a metric...

100 Dwarf Priest
Red
6540
Everyone has already made great points, so I'm of course going to echo them because its the Internet. Absorbs pull ahead because mitigating damage is always better than reacting to it and combined with a limited amount of damage in LFR, there's just nothing to do. Twin Consorts LFR is the most boring thing ever.

As for overhealing, in a situation where healers are working together as a team, it's still going to happen, but as long as people aren't dying because of it, it's not a huge deal. There's more damage in those situations and the effective healing will still probably be relatively fine. With people that are are doing everything they can to be top of the meters because they think it makes them "win," link the overhealing in raid chat and see how quickly they launch into a dissertation on why overhealing is irrelevant. Meanwhile in reality overhealing would be like a DPS continuing their rotation on a corpse.
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100 Human Paladin
12950
IMO HPS isn't that big a factor. To me personally I'm not going to get mad at a healer just because they have low HPS. If they're really trying I could care less.

That being said obviously in a raid, if the guild is competitive, or if you've wiped 5 times on the same boss due to HEALING issues (and I mean 100% healing issues, not simply ignored mechanics) then you may have to kick the lowest performing healer. Of course normally there's reasons said healer isn't healing well and they can be used to support and justify why their HPS is so low.

I need to question for a second though, are we talking actual HPS? Or simply healing done? To me HPS is even less a factor than actual healing done during a fight according to recount or whatever addon you're using. Mainly because HPS doesn't always correlate to healing the most. I may have 70k HPS, but it's quite possible I did healed the least during a fight.

I only get upset at other healers when they're sitting in the fight with full mana, while me and other healer(s) are going OOM and the entire raid is dying, yet the healer with the lowest HPS/Healing done is still sitting at full mana. To me there's no excuse for that.

Like I said, if you're obviously trying, if I see you died in the fight not at full mana and attempted to heal your butt off while the entire raid took damage, then you're fine.
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90 Pandaren Monk
LA
16675
With people that are are doing everything they can to be top of the meters because they think it makes them "win," link the overhealing in raid chat and see how quickly they launch into a dissertation on why overhealing is irrelevant. Meanwhile in reality overhealing would be like a DPS continuing their rotation on a corpse.
I just can't agree with this.

Holy paladins and disc priests want to keep healing to keep bubbles on the raid for upcoming damage. Monks have to use renewing mists on cooldown to not ruin their ability to aoe heal and uplift is always going to hit someone who doesn't really need health. Druids want to be covering the raid in rejuv for upcoming damage and to charge their mushrooms. Shaman keep down healing rain. Holy priests are the only spec that I can't directly think of a need for them to be healing all the time but even then their mastery is a hot.

If hots aren't already on people, it's going to be too late and too slow to heal groups of people once damage comes in.

Healing has been designed to require overhealing to be able to deal with the damage when it actually happens. Plus with the aoe spamfest it is, you're going to often times be hitting people near full health when healing people that need healing.

I need to question for a second though, are we talking actual HPS? Or simply healing done? To me HPS is even less a factor than actual healing done during a fight according to recount or whatever addon you're using. Mainly because HPS doesn't always correlate to healing the most. I may have 70k HPS, but it's quite possible I did healed the least during a fight.
HPS is just total healing done divided by the time in combat. If you did the most HPS(e) [healing done divided by fight length] you did the most healing throughout the fight.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580

I challenge any druid or monk to an overheal contest, lets do this.


Challenge accepted.

My shrooms will explode all over your aceeee

(if the goal is to just overheal, I will win...but in normal circumstances, I will concede)
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90 Human Paladin
4350
Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13525
Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.


Hardly :p
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100 Night Elf Druid
19505
Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.


Or the fact that some healers heal stupidly for HPS.

I heal effectively.

If there is nothing to heal, I aint gonna heal and waste mana for no reason.
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100 Tauren Druid
16075
Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.


No, not generally.

Granted, there are certainly times where there is a HUGE discrepency. Plenty of LFRs where I see the top 3 doing 70% of the healing by HPS stanards. That's certainly more indicative of slacking or being lazy (or being afk, which happens a lot in LFR).
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
08/21/2013 07:49 AMPosted by Theodoruuk
Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.


No, not generally.

Granted, there are certainly times where there is a HUGE discrepency. Plenty of LFRs where I see the top 3 doing 70% of the healing by HPS stanards. That's certainly more indicative of slacking or being lazy (or being afk, which happens a lot in LFR).


That depends, if those 3 are pallies and discs that are actually trying the other 3 healers should just respec dps because there's nothing left to heal. They could be casting away as soon as they see a hp bar move and it won't matter. Just looking at hps numbers is one of the more meaningless/misleading things you can do. Without context it is a useless metric, when analyzed in context it can be somewhat useful.
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100 Tauren Druid
9580
Shoot, I'll routinely do something in ballpark of 15k Hps on normal 25 horridon-.-
AND that's IF I actually have to heal at some point because of some (rare) derp.

2disc priests and a try hard holy pally (plus another Hpally) will turn HPS into a complete and utterly meaningless metric on Horridon.
I spend more time in travelform/bear/kitty than I do healing on Horridon. And I definately cast more Moonfire than Rejuvs. Theres no point outside of tank rejuv. Theres nothing to heal.
(RL wont let me dps)
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100 Tauren Druid
16075
08/21/2013 10:51 AMPosted by Linnelle


No, not generally.

Granted, there are certainly times where there is a HUGE discrepency. Plenty of LFRs where I see the top 3 doing 70% of the healing by HPS stanards. That's certainly more indicative of slacking or being lazy (or being afk, which happens a lot in LFR).


That depends, if those 3 are pallies and discs that are actually trying the other 3 healers should just respec dps because there's nothing left to heal. They could be casting away as soon as they see a hp bar move and it won't matter. Just looking at hps numbers is one of the more meaningless/misleading things you can do. Without context it is a useless metric, when analyzed in context it can be somewhat useful.


I think you justt agreed with me ;) I said generally the original statements was not the case, but just pointed out that there coul be times where that's accurate. Basically, just like you said, Completely depends.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
08/20/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Aubrye
Is overhealing counted in HPS?


No, but if you deliberately throw spells knowing that they will 90% overheal and 10% snipe someone else's HoT tick (or just carelessly do the same thing), then that 10% IS counted in HPS, and also reduces someone else's HPS. This is called "competitive healing" and it is a plague on the game, but stupid people putting trust in meter numbers ensure that it will continue.

meaning that the jerk at #1 whose bragging in /i probably wasted a large portion of his mana to get there.


Yes, exactly.

But, as is wont to happen, another healer casts a quick heal for 500 after one tick goes off, they get 400 healling and 100 overhealing, whereas my spell is now 100 healing and 400 overhealing by the time it wears off. Even though it easily could have healed the 500 by itself.


Yes, this too. The healer whose spell overhealed isn't necessarily the one that CAUSED the overheal to occur. This is why meters are stupid, but then, it's just a computer program, what do you expect? People looking at meters aren't necessarily stupid, *if* they are aware of the program's limitations and how to interpret the results. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
That's certainly more indicative of slacking or being lazy (or being afk, which happens a lot in LFR).


Or massive gear differences, which also happen a lot in LFR. You only need 480 to get into LFR TOT but you still sometimes see 550s show up for lolz and valor and maybe some trinket. A huge performance gap there doesn't indicate that the lower geared person is slacking off, it just indicates that gear > skill in this game, and we all knew that already.
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100 Draenei Priest
8735
it just indicates that gear > skill in this game, and we all knew that already.

pretty sure being disc > being awake > gear in lfr.

These threads are always so cute.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13525
08/21/2013 11:25 AMPosted by Evry
it just indicates that gear > skill in this game, and we all knew that already.

pretty sure being disc > being awake > gear in lfr.

These threads are always so cute.


Basically :P

When my guild first started gearing up my disc priest I was in blues and greens with a few epic pieces, and I was able to top the healing charts >D

When I look at the healing meters (for normals or heroics, not LFR because well it's LFR and some classes can solo heal that) I look for spell usage not numbers. The LFR heroes that constantly link the meters drive me nuts, so usually I actually pay attention to outheal them to make them hush.
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100 Tauren Shaman
13035
No, but if you deliberately throw spells knowing that they will 90% overheal and 10% snipe someone else's HoT tick (or just carelessly do the same thing), then that 10% IS counted in HPS, and also reduces someone else's HPS. This is called "competitive healing" and it is a plague on the game, but stupid people putting trust in meter numbers ensure that it will continue.


TIL: Making sure that the raid is topped off is a "plague".

This ain't Cata, it's not triage; topping people off asap is definitely a good idea.
Edited by Gijira on 8/21/2013 11:35 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
Meters are an excellent way to judge yourself for spell usage. No so much when judging others.
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100 Dwarf Priest
Red
6540
Pandamonius I don't think you're disagreeing with me there. You're talking about incidental overhealing as a natural consequence of healing the way you should be. That's overhealing that, to me, is fine. The block you quote is specifically about people that deliberately heal in a way that has nothing to do with keeping people alive and is specifically healing for the meter. There's a pretty obvious difference if you look at their overhealing relative to effective healing.
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100 Night Elf Druid
9600
08/20/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Talamien
Everyone has already made great points, so I'm of course going to echo them because its the Internet.


This sentence made my day. xD
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90 Undead Monk
13535
Using HPS meters to judge the worth of a healer in LFR is like measuring rainfall by the sound your neighbor's cat is making


This really made me laugh really loud.

Healers who hide behind "hps is not everything" are generally the ones slacking off the most in raids, regardless of how true the statement is.


The problem is there's so many variables that can change HPS. Have 2 paladins and 2 disc priest (which my raid has), good luck trying to heal as much as they absorb.
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