Frost haste cap?

So, I see lots of stuff about the frost haste cap, about being around what, 14k, but how does that really play in with procced haste effects? How do you calculate that? For instance, I'm at something like 8687 Haste rating (527 ilvl), but between raid haste buffs, frost armor, time warp, trinket haste proccing, and the legendary meta gem, at what point would you start dumping haste for mastery?
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96 Troll Mage
10900
Just curious, since 5.4 is deploying very soon and I've noticed that the new frost mastery factors in a huge chunk of your damage.. wouldn't mastery be outweighing haste by a landslide..?
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I've been looking at that myself. Trying to weigh in the value of mastery versus haste, point for point. With the constant changes, hard to tell what info is relevant, but I mean, considering how often my haste bursts over the cap, and that icicles will be 2% per point of mastery or something, plus less burning out of mana before invocate buff even expires, really looks good for mastery. Not to mention the mage armor buff of reducing effects and silences is FAR more useful in raid pve than the frost armor slowing effect.
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10 Draenei Shaman
0
I am kind of hoping mastery will play a bigger part than haste in 5.4 so then I can go arcane and have frost as my second spec so I can switch if needed and not need to reforge/re-gem
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100 Human Mage
12580
I've been looking at that myself. Trying to weigh in the value of mastery versus haste, point for point. With the constant changes, hard to tell what info is relevant, but I mean, considering how often my haste bursts over the cap, and that icicles will be 2% per point of mastery or something, plus less burning out of mana before invocate buff even expires, really looks good for mastery. Not to mention the mage armor buff of reducing effects and silences is FAR more useful in raid pve than the frost armor slowing effect.


Good point. Stacking haste has to run out of steam at some point considering how any other buffs put us under the GCD. Faster evo's are nice but with the mastery change the stat weights will probably lean towards mastery, which I like... With a name like mastery, shouldn't it be the strongest secondary stat?
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90 Goblin Mage
11400
In the current Ptr build using the new mastery T15H Bis favors mastery on a per point capita after haste/crit caps are achieved, so it' looking favorable atm.
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90 Worgen Mage
11190
53.85% is the cap with meta/lust. Haste is multiplicative, it does not simply add 7% from frost armor or 30% from lust to our haste %. The more you have, the more you gain.

The new mastery doesn't affect as many spells as our old mastery so, sure, mastery will be nice but so will crit. And these come after haste.

Frost's strongest stat will remain Haste. it does not suffer from diminishing returns like mastery at higher ratings
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90 Worgen Mage
11190
Not to mention the mage armor buff of reducing effects and silences is FAR more useful in raid pve than the frost armor slowing effect.


If you're playing frost with mage armor in pve, you're doing it wrong.

Contrary to popular belief, haste still scales past the GCD.
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90 Pandaren Mage
10710
Contrary to popular belief, haste still scales past the GCD.


Maybe, but you're losing point value. Still, after 50% haste (perhaps even a little less) and 28% crit buffed I'm going to be gemming mastery and int, and keeping frost armor.
Edited by Valmordas on 8/20/2013 8:39 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Mage
11190
08/20/2013 08:38 AMPosted by Valmordas
Contrary to popular belief, haste still scales past the GCD.


Maybe, but you're losing point value. Still, after 50% haste (perhaps even a little less) and 28% crit buffed I'm going to be gemming mastery and int, and keeping frost armor.


53.85%. 28% crit with trinket procs. Ideally, you want very little crit for the remainder of this tier.

Int gemming is fine and all, if it weren't for the fact that haste will beat it out at higher ilvl. Gemming mastery? Ha. Mastery won't be that good. Haste still #1 secondary.
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90 Pandaren Mage
10710
Int gemming is fine and all, if it weren't for the fact that haste will beat it out at higher ilvl. Gemming mastery? Ha. Mastery won't be that good. Haste still #1 secondary.


Actually in PVE Int and Mastery compliment each other more after patch. But if you want to keep stacking haste beyond the cap, be my guest. Past that, mastery will be the better stat.
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90 Human Mage
10045
The reason for stacking haste so heavily this patch was rppm trinkets. Next patch they are changing rppm trinkets to no longer be effected by haste, so yes i believe after the cap mastery is going to far outweigh haste. (cap i believe is 50% to affect all your spells)
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90 Worgen Mage
11190
The reason for stacking haste so heavily this patch was rppm trinkets. Next patch they are changing rppm trinkets to no longer be effected by haste, so yes i believe after the cap mastery is going to far outweigh haste. (cap i believe is 50% to affect all your spells)


Except for the fact that Frost's top secondary stat is still Haste, regardless of the change to RPPM. This is whey we took a big hit w/ the RPPM change; we use it as a major stat, others were just stacking haste for better uptime.

Haste GCD cap is 53.85% w/ lust/meta
Edited by Mastamagee on 8/20/2013 7:17 PM PDT
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100 Gnome Mage
8030
^He's right to an extent. The problem isn't with Haste, it's with the spec itself. Roughly half of your DPS will not benefit [any insta cast] from Haste past 50%, but even then it's still your most valuable secondary stat (as Frost).

What reverting to Mage Armor does is allow you to get more DPS provided your Haste can still stay at or around 50%. Reason being that any secondary stat when pushed too much begins to yield diminishing returns. They don't plot as a straight line, they plot more like a bell curve. At 50% Haste, you're more or less at the peak of the bell curve.

So instead of adding Haste at this point, if you add on Mastery, you gain better DPS - but this doesn't mean Mastery is more valuable. It's just that you have too much Haste, and the way the spec works deems Haste past a certain point (50%) not as valuable as prior to that point.

And actually in most cases at that point you almost always fare better as Arcane, since Arcane doesn't have as many insta-casts as Frost does.

But he's not wrong when he says Haste is still your most valuable stat past 50%.
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90 Troll Mage
5510
After PTR testing and raiding, I found going haste does more damage than going mastery. That is all.

-Nakhti
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