Smite Disc

86 Blood Elf Priest
5590
Wait, it got nerfed to 1%? Seriously lame. I've been having a blast smiting raid bosses inbetween healing moments. Healing has always been king of a boring experience for me because there are moments where you are doing nothing. Smiting fixed that completely.

But only 5% mana return on a full stack? I'd be wasting more mana than I would be recovering :\
You'd be wasting more than you'd recovering at 3% per stack as well, from the numbers I recall. Evangelism was never supposed to be the only reason why you stack Archangel, it's supposed to be the button you press for a slight healing/mana boost when you need to transition from healing with Smite/Atonement to healing with normal heals.

I guess, but that's a lot more boring.
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80 Blood Elf Priest
4590
Doing one of the achieves yesterday on LK10, there was no time for me to slip in a few Smites to pop to try the new stuff out, far to busy Shielding, PoM, Penace, the odd Prayer etc to do it...

I hope things get better at 85, but im a lil worried for my disc spec performance wheen we get there....

cheers
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10155
Wait, it got nerfed to 1%? Seriously lame. I've been having a blast smiting raid bosses inbetween healing moments. Healing has always been king of a boring experience for me because there are moments where you are doing nothing. Smiting fixed that completely.

But only 5% mana return on a full stack? I'd be wasting more mana than I would be recovering :\
You'd be wasting more than you'd recovering at 3% per stack as well, from the numbers I recall. Evangelism was never supposed to be the only reason why you stack Archangel, it's supposed to be the button you press for a slight healing/mana boost when you need to transition from healing with Smite/Atonement to healing with normal heals.


Nah thats not true. At 3% per stack you can gain mana easily enough. All you need is ~85k mana or so at level 85 for you to start seeing positive returns after 5 smites. In entry raid gear at level 85 I already had over 100k mana so that is clearly a very easy figure to reach and surpass.

Hell if I know why they nerfed it to 1% per stack. Archangel without the positive mana return is just not worth it.
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The smite/AAngel mechanic is AMAZING! I'm loving it!
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1 Human Priest
0
I don't find it great. I find it a great way to almost let people die.
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I don't find it great. I find it a great way to almost let people die.

It takes time to adapt to, but the point is to only use it when things are
A: Calm, and
B: Shields are up on people taking damage to mitigate it while you cast smite.

I don't see it as a 24/7 smite smite smite, but when you have a chance kind of thing.
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80 Human Death Knight
1000
It just seems silly to have a spec that requires like 5-6 talent points to fully invest in for such mediocre and boring results. On live its a complete play style change, but a 1% mana return would just make it a silly leveling spec. Which shadow is already fine for.
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85 Goblin Priest
9220
It's fine when in a 5 man where things are boring with a great tank or want a little bit of variety, but its not really something I'd utilize if I didn't know the situation or was in a raid. It does make things very easy grinding. zero down time.
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85 Draenei Priest
3910
The nerf to Archangel really makes sense if you work out the math, so bear with me on this one.

If you work out the numbers between Atonement and Heal, the go-to efficiency spell, the work out to be just about dead even.

Heal currently costs 1853 mana and heals for about 6k on the beta

With full raid buffs, I generally have around 100k in mana. With that mana pool, the returns from Archangel work out like this:

(Remember, each stack of Evangelism reduces the mana cost of Smite by 6%)

Net mana loss at 1 stack: -2088 (1000 - 3088)
Net mana loss at 2 stacks: -3990 (2000 - 3088 - 2902)
Net mana loss at 3 stacks: -5707 (3000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717)
Net mana loss at 4 stacks: -7239 (4000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717 - 2532)
Net mana loss at 5 stacks: -8585 (5000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717 - 2532 - 2346)

Keep in mind that even at five stacks, Smite only costs 2161 to cast, which is still pretty darn efficient without the mana returns. And it also lowers the cost of Penance.

So with the returns from Archangel figured in, the cost of each Smite looks like this:

1 stack Smite cost: 2088
2 stack Smite cost: 1995
3 stack Smite cost: 1902
4 stack Smite cost: 1809
5 stack Smite cost: 1717

So at five stacks, it's actually 136 mana cheaper than Heal. I think the nerf was made because at 85, the mana regen would have be completely out of control at higher gear levels, much the way that Rapture worked out in WotLK. They're bringing the mana returns down to make the two spells comparable mana-wise. They want there to be a choice between the two spells.

Even without the mana edge, a few things that still give Smite/Atonement the edge in my book:

1) The cast time is slightly faster. Smite is a 1.88 cast time (on my bars), and Heal is a 2.35 cast time.

2) With raid buffs, Smite heals actually land for maybe 5 to 10% more healing than Heal does.

3) It gives you a 15% healing boost when you're done using it.

4) It lowers the cooldown on Penance, which is the best heal-per-mana spell we've got. And it is constantly on CD.

5) It also lowers the mana cost of Penance by about 800 mana when Evangelism is at full stacks.

Now after getting my 5 Smites in, I definitely go back to using Heal until Archangel comes off CD again. It makes sense from a mana-perspective and it also stacks Grace and removes Weakened Soul.

The bottom line is, I think that there's a real give and take between both Smite and Heal now. And it makes Discipline very interesting to play now.
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100 Human Warlock
7695

Nah thats not true. At 3% per stack you can gain mana easily enough. All you need is ~85k mana or so at level 85 for you to start seeing positive returns after 5 smites. In entry raid gear at level 85 I already had over 100k mana so that is clearly a very easy figure to reach and surpass.

Hell if I know why they nerfed it to 1% per stack. Archangel without the positive mana return is just not worth it.


You don't find a 20% healing buff worth it?

IMO Disc will see two different builds in raids:
1) Your standard "pure healer" build that ignores archangel in favor of more typical throughput talents and
2) A "burst healing"/stabilization build that uses Archangel to buff its throughput when necessary, and bubbles/strength of soul+heal/smite the rest of the time (with smite used purely to maintain evangelism for archangel).

Neither build is "correct" IMO.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
18210
I'm just glad something new got thrown into the mix. I was dpsing while healing pre 4.0 so at least now it will be doing something useful :)

Just remember, smite healing is very situational.
Disc was built around it (PW:S group before they run in, PoM on the tank.. while it aborbs you get a big window of time to cast smite. God forbid a holy priest does that).


That being said.. I still adore my priest.
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90 Human Priest
15270

Essentially, Smite will be a random melee heal


Agree with this as a major issue. Being unable to steer the heal makes it a gimmick. At least when you cast "Heal" you select who get's healed. I think with some sort of more intelligent healing it might be more compelling.
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
Agree with this as a major issue. Being unable to steer the heal makes it a gimmick. At least when you cast "Heal" you select who get's healed. I think with some sort of more intelligent healing it might be more compelling.
How does it get any smarter than healing the person who has the lowest health? =P

The mechanics of Archangel, and the superior HPS of Smite (relative to Heal) are intended to help compensate for its limited range, and the fact that you aren't in total control over where Atonement goes.
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90 Human Priest
15270
Smart heals aren't always the answer when healing. Sometimes you don't need to heal the person with lowest health first :-)
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
Smart heals aren't always the answer when healing. Sometimes you don't need to heal the person with lowest health first :-)
Not always, sure. But with a spell as small as Heal (or Smite), you're passing the time until you can't get away with just that little bit of HPS anymore. You're never going to be watching your tank get an unholy beatdown and be crossing your fingers that Atonement picks her to heal.

Don't forget the tools Discipline Priests have to spot heal and/or guide the Atonement. If you've got the tank squared away, you can Shield her and know that your Smites will be doing some spot healing on raid. If there's light or incidental AOE damage going around, your Mending can do some clean-up to equalize health values while your Smite heals are more likely to land on the tank, who's taking more consistent (and probably heavier) damage. If you do fall behind on tank healing for a bit, or just need to pick someone up, hit Penance.

People seem to be making an unconscious rule that if you're Smiting, you shouldn't be doing anything else, or that if you're healing without first cashing in your Evangelism stacks for Archangel, then you're doing it wrong. Evangelism has a relatively long duration. You have the freedom to do a lot of other things in those 15 seconds. =)

And again, Smite's HPS is (intended to be) better than Heal's. Evangelism reduces Penance's mana cost. Archangel gives you a running start when you have to return to healing full-time. The "I can't control where it goes" thing is debatable in itself, because it's a smart heal that is performing healing you'd have to do at some point anyway. But the developers have given the spec a lot of icing on the cake, just in case.
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86 Blood Elf Priest
5590
The nerf to Archangel really makes sense if you work out the math, so bear with me on this one.

If you work out the numbers between Atonement and Heal, the go-to efficiency spell, the work out to be just about dead even.

Heal currently costs 1853 mana and heals for about 6k on the beta

With full raid buffs, I generally have around 100k in mana. With that mana pool, the returns from Archangel work out like this:

(Remember, each stack of Evangelism reduces the mana cost of Smite by 6%)

Net mana loss at 1 stack: -2088 (1000 - 3088)
Net mana loss at 2 stacks: -3990 (2000 - 3088 - 2902)
Net mana loss at 3 stacks: -5707 (3000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717)
Net mana loss at 4 stacks: -7239 (4000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717 - 2532)
Net mana loss at 5 stacks: -8585 (5000 - 3088 - 2902 - 2717 - 2532 - 2346)

Keep in mind that even at five stacks, Smite only costs 2161 to cast, which is still pretty darn efficient without the mana returns. And it also lowers the cost of Penance.

So with the returns from Archangel figured in, the cost of each Smite looks like this:

1 stack Smite cost: 2088
2 stack Smite cost: 1995
3 stack Smite cost: 1902
4 stack Smite cost: 1809
5 stack Smite cost: 1717

So at five stacks, it's actually 136 mana cheaper than Heal. I think the nerf was made because at 85, the mana regen would have be completely out of control at higher gear levels, much the way that Rapture worked out in WotLK. They're bringing the mana returns down to make the two spells comparable mana-wise. They want there to be a choice between the two spells.

Even without the mana edge, a few things that still give Smite/Atonement the edge in my book:

1) The cast time is slightly faster. Smite is a 1.88 cast time (on my bars), and Heal is a 2.35 cast time.

2) With raid buffs, Smite heals actually land for maybe 5 to 10% more healing than Heal does.

3) It gives you a 15% healing boost when you're done using it.

4) It lowers the cooldown on Penance, which is the best heal-per-mana spell we've got. And it is constantly on CD.

5) It also lowers the mana cost of Penance by about 800 mana when Evangelism is at full stacks.

Now after getting my 5 Smites in, I definitely go back to using Heal until Archangel comes off CD again. It makes sense from a mana-perspective and it also stacks Grace and removes Weakened Soul.

The bottom line is, I think that there's a real give and take between both Smite and Heal now. And it makes Discipline very interesting to play now.

All of which ignores the utility of each spell. Smite healing is not reliable. It's got an incredibly short range, ensuring you're only really going to be healing melee characters. It also suffers from lag like beacon of light, so your heal actually takes 1-2 seconds to hit after a successful smite.

As a heal, smite is unreliable. It's silly to try and compare it to a normal heal spell which is targetable, reliable, and efficient to a fairly random melee-only heal spell that is slow.

What I imagine happening is smite gets stuck as the red headed talent spec that will keep you out of raiding guilds when you decide to take it. Nobody picks a spec for just running dungeons (and not raids).
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
All of which ignores the utility of each spell. Smite healing is not reliable. It's got an incredibly short range, ensuring you're only really going to be healing melee characters. It also suffers from lag like beacon of light, so your heal actually takes 1-2 seconds to hit after a successful smite.

As a heal, smite is unreliable. It's silly to try and compare it to a normal heal spell which is targetable, reliable, and efficient to a fairly random melee-only heal spell that is slow.

What I imagine happening is smite gets stuck as the red headed talent spec that will keep you out of raiding guilds when you decide to take it. Nobody picks a spec for just running dungeons (and not raids).
Neither Heal nor Smite is going to be the spell you cast when you need a specific amount of healing on a specific target. They're the spells you cast when no significant amount of healing is required of you at the moment.

Also, I'm not sure why you think Smite healing is "slow." Smite casts 0.5 seconds faster than Heal and, hyperbole aside, the Atonement delay is probably closer to 0.2 secs. =]
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