Mind Spike.

90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
First long post :D

With the new Spriest mastery I think that it's time to revert mind spike to causing high threat instead of getting rid of DoTs. Reason being is mainly for PvP, although the ability to use Mind Spike during Dark Archangel would be amazing <3.

Also, with the new priest mastery proccing off ORB'd MB, please consider disallowing mind spike to consume orbs.
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75 Dwarf Hunter
1360
I guess I want to understand what you're trying to accomplish with the high threat over the DoT removal - why do you think it is a better/more fun mechanic? Or do you just feel it is less unfun?

To me the question has always been - "Why does Mind Spike exist?" while I am happy for anything that might improve the fun of playing a Shadow Priest - I am still struggling to see when I'd use Mind Spike either in PvP or PvE.

Just to make an obvious contrast, when Mind Sear was introduced it was immediately obvious how I'd use it and how much fun it would be (which was a LOT). The same can be said for the Shadowfiend and even Dispersion to a lesser degree.

So that leaves two questions - When is Mind Spike useful? When is Mind Spike fun?
Edited by Gotfrid on 11/5/2010 2:18 AM PDT
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85 Troll Priest
12070
stopping in to say thank you for the reconsidering the structure of our mastery, this is a welcome change. This should make it so you can turn that nob a little easier on the power of it better.

As for mind spike, i see this as going to be one of the spells that i have hot keyed, but will rarely use. It will be handy for those times in raids where dps is called to stop, aside from that, in its current form it seems to have no real other purpose in pve. in pvp, i could see it being slightly useful, but even in our current state on live, i don't think i would even bother.

The fact that it kills our dots, thus stopping production of orbs, in addition to consuming the orbs we have makes this spell almost completely unwanted as it completely negates the whole purpose of how our mastery works in conjunction with every other spell we have.

As it stands our new mastery effects every spell in our arsenal, with the exception of shadow fiend and SW:D. yet casting 1 mind spike cancels all of the functions of it. The second you cast MSp, you lose all orbs and ways to make orbs again, untill you put your dots back up and/or MF, and all of these things need you to cast MB with at least 1 orb in order to get buffed from our mastery.

In pve that is a horrible scenario. in pvp that is only worthwhile if you are getting focused and have incoming crits being taken. Even then, losing the damage of your dots and self healing that provides also lessens our survivability.

This spell needs lots of help to get it to where it will actually be a useful tool for me, right now it just doesn't really have a true purpose it seems.
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75 Dwarf Hunter
1360
But the same thing could have been accomplished by removing the cooldown on Mind Blast but having it "ramp up" over its traditional cooldown (e.g. 100% coefficient after 7.5 secs, and drops 20% every second under that). So if you just spam it then it hits like Scorch, but after 7.5 seconds it hits as hard as it does now (essentially you're swapping cast time with cooldown). Plus if you left it for 10+ seconds it could hit like a Pyroblast?

The only thing Mind Spike adds is:
- Drops DoTs (niche utility - for CC)
- Is part of a different "school" (Frost)

I think Blizzard shouldn't have ever given us a Frost spell. It isn't fun, doesn't flow with LORE, and frankly with the Disc' "school" (tree) they could have easily added a neat Holy Spell that was cast able when Shadow was kicked. The only reason they even decided on Frost was it originally had a slow...

Maybe give us a Disc' button we can push that increases our Wand damage by 100% of our Spell Power (*I am entirely serious) for 30 seconds? Call it "Wand Specialisation."

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85 Human Priest
9765
Well currently, on the beta, mind spike is not a different school. It might be a bug, or it might be intended. I don't think anyone can claim differently because the purpose of mind spike has changed so many times over the course of 4 months. Removing our dots in any situation is relatively useless. I can think of one fight where this mechanic might be useful, even so you would never want to use the mechanic even if you were interrupted.

As I said in my last post, the only reason it has been nerfed to this situation is because mind spike gave 30% crit each time it was cast. Shadowpriest.com determined that even if the spell did less damage then mind flay, 100% crit chance on mind blast was a dps increase.

In a way, mind spike has been nerfed ever since to the point it became part of our rotation to uselessness. Personally I was hoping to see mind spike play some part in cataclysm. Nevertheless, it is distasteful in its current state to the point that I would use this spell as much as I do mind sooth: once in a blue moon.
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85 Dwarf Priest
5875
How about giving mind spike a buff? on each time its cast, it puts a undispellable curse on target which makes all dots on them undispellable?so our rotation in pvp will be 3 mindspikes at start for the 100% chance of our dots NOT getting dispelled, then start with dots + mind blast and a shadowword death to finish off?

the debuff has to stay for at least 12 sec.
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75 Dwarf Hunter
1360
it puts a undispellable curse on target which makes all dots on them undispellable


Interesting concept. Cannot decide if it wouldn't be OP (bring back Affliction Warlock/Shadow Priest 2s domination). I'm also not sure if the tech' is in place to implement that (because it would be a debuff on the target "resisting" dispells rather than on the debuffs themselves).

As I said, interesting idea - almost no chance you'd see it be 100% however.
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85 Draenei Priest
6770
I guess I want to understand what you're trying to accomplish with the high threat over the DoT removal - why do you think it is a better/more fun mechanic? Or do you just feel it is less unfun?

To me the question has always been - "Why does Mind Spike exist?" while I am happy for anything that might improve the fun of playing a Shadow Priest - I am still struggling to see when I'd use Mind Spike either in PvP or PvE.

Just to make an obvious contrast, when Mind Sear was introduced it was immediately obvious how I'd use it and how much fun it would be (which was a LOT). The same can be said for the Shadowfiend and even Dispersion to a lesser degree.

So that leaves two questions - When is Mind Spike useful? When is Mind Spike fun?


Obviously threat over DoT removal would be "less unfun". I'm fairly certain that harsh penalties on spells like DoT removal easily make a spell unfun.

Mind Spike has great uses in PvP granted it(s):

1) On another spell school (Everyone and their pet has a spell interupt these days. Getting trained is going to be RAD!)
2) sees regular use (If it removes dots, its going to be "unfun" to place. Really troublesome)

With the DoT removal change, and the fact its just another shadow school spell, it's looking bad. It has such potential to synergise talents like mindmelt and paralysis and even gain a boost from forced mastery (on PvP gear) but falls short due to those 2 main restrictions, same spell school, DoT removal.

I'd like to see some more changes to the mechanics of the spell. I'd like to see damage reduction against a target with DoTs instead of removing the DoTs. Be that baseline of glyph form, for usability purposes in PvP, and so it's still restricted from filler in PvE. Not sure what the numbers are like for PvE, but maybe if the spell did 5% less damage per DoT on the target (Arbitrary numbers, as I said; no idea of the maths), it might be terrible as filler for PvE but great for bursting adds, and still passable for an off tree spell / Paralysis+Mindmelt Talent ramp up for PvP.
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90 Undead Priest
0
Even if Mind Spike is frost school as originally intended, and not shadow, should we eat a school lockout in PvE (the demon chicks on Jarax for example), it would probably be a better dps option just to drop form and spam Holy Fire/Smite, than to use Mind Spike and remove all of our currently ticking dots.

I wasn't a huge fan of the high threat mechanic, but I am all for it over the dot wipe mechanic. In the Mind Spike thread on the old forums, I brought up the idea of a Glyph of Mind Spike that has been thrown around here in the past. Lower Mind Spike damage at the cost of keeping dots rolling. That could be the best alternative.
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85 Dwarf Priest
5875
I brought up the idea of a Glyph of Mind Spike that has been thrown around here in the past. Lower Mind Spike damage at the cost of keeping dots rolling. That could be the best alternative.


dount that many people use it.Specially for pvp

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80 Night Elf Death Knight
3000
How about giving mind spike a buff? on each time its cast, it puts a undispellable curse on target which makes all dots on them undispellable?so our rotation in pvp will be 3 mindspikes at start for the 100% chance of our dots NOT getting dispelled, then start with dots + mind blast and a shadowword death to finish off?

the debuff has to stay for at least 12 sec.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Right now it serves ONE purpose. Killing adds that die fast before dots are rolling. But since Mind Spike Consumes Orbs, you are looking at a possible ~5-6 seconds to get another orb before you can do full dps rotation on the boss. Since mastery has gone far up in value, you will be looking at losing the ~20%+ dot damage buff for ~6 sec to get an orb + actual mind blast cast. That's a huge dps loss. It will probably be more beneficial to spam flay (due to it generating orbs) if a mob dies fast enough for DoTs to not be effective.

By removing the "Mind spike consumes an orb" it allows LESS penalty for actually using it on adds AND allows synergy with MSx2 -> Instant MB w/ orbs for high burst damage.
By changing it back to high threat, we would be able to use mind spike in pvp when we are shadow school locked (Remember, that was what blizzard originally said was the design goal). Right now, even if we are school locked in pvp against a target w/ dots on them, it is better to either heal, or wait the lockout out. These are both better options then erasing all your dots for a small nuke.

And with the new shadow priest mastery, assuming with evangelism + DoT mastery rolling, I think flay will always be a better choice in a straight nuke fight then mind spike. Although, it would aid pve burst greatly if under dark archangel we spammed mind spike -> MB for quick direct damage.

Edit: For pvp, the only reason you would want to "spike" to get rid of dots for cc is for something like a blind or poly, but both those classes have major glyphs which result in the same outcome.
Edited by Bieberfever on 11/5/2010 11:58 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Priest
2720
To be honest, I was really excited about mind spike when I first heard about it, but as many have stated it has kind of taken a back seat with the spells I would use.

In pvp, I see it having almost no use. I like how the snare going to be there, with the 100%crit on mindblast, but really, who is going to do a ramp up just for a snare?

I would add a 30% slow to the talent "paralysis" for mind spike to give spriests some kind of kiting ability, keep the dot removal and leave it at that.
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90 Undead Priest
0
I brought up the idea of a Glyph of Mind Spike that has been thrown around here in the past. Lower Mind Spike damage at the cost of keeping dots rolling. That could be the best alternative.


dount that many people use it.Specially for pvp


Well, it's original design intent in PvP was to be used when we got locked out of our Shadow school, long before it had all that Mind Blast nonsense tagged to it. At least it would give Shadow the option to not have their dots wiped.
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85 Dwarf Priest
5875
I brought up the idea of a Glyph of Mind Spike that has been thrown around here in the past. Lower Mind Spike damage at the cost of keeping dots rolling. That could be the best alternative.


dount that many people use it.Specially for pvp


Well, it's original design intent in PvP was to be used when we got locked out of our Shadow school, long before it had all that Mind Blast nonsense tagged to it. At least it would give Shadow the option to not have their dots wiped.


i agree, i dont know who had the idea of making a Mind spike remove our dots. Dots is all shadow priest do!!!
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100 Human Paladin
5765
Well I think they could seriously re-evaluate imp MB (with the nerf to MS effects the three points wanted in that talent seems seriously high) and add the MS effect onto Mind Spike baseline.

Then they could put a fairly high damage top-end on mind spike that is reduced per *your* dot effect on the target.

Let's say:
Mind Spike does 100 dmg - Mind Blast does 90 damage.

Per dot the damage of Mind Spike is reduced by 10%; reducing the damage of Mind Spike 70 at full dots.

So then with dots up Mind Spike would leave your rotation, but it would a. not penalize you in pvp and still grant utility b. maintain its niche in pve and c. could possibly be used over MF during dark evan, though that is up in the air.
Edited by Fridays on 11/5/2010 2:34 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
0
Well I think they could seriously re-evaluate imp MB (with the nerf to MS effects the three points wanted in that talent seems seriously high) and add the MS effect onto Mind Spike baseline.

Then they could put a fairly high damage top-end on mind spike that is reduced per *your* dot effect on the target.

Let's say:
Mind Spike does 100 dmg - Mind Blast does 90 damage.

Per dot the damage of Mind Spike is reduced by 10%; reducing the damage of Mind Spike 70 at full dots.

So then with dots up Mind Spike would leave your rotation, but it would a. not penalize you in pvp and still grant utility b. maintain its niche in pve and c. could possibly be used over MF during dark evan, though that is up in the air.


Not a bad idea at all.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Well I think they could seriously re-evaluate imp MB (with the nerf to MS effects the three points wanted in that talent seems seriously high) and add the MS effect onto Mind Spike baseline.

Then they could put a fairly high damage top-end on mind spike that is reduced per *your* dot effect on the target.

Let's say:
Mind Spike does 100 dmg - Mind Blast does 90 damage.

Per dot the damage of Mind Spike is reduced by 10%; reducing the damage of Mind Spike 70 at full dots.

So then with dots up Mind Spike would leave your rotation, but it would a. not penalize you in pvp and still grant utility b. maintain its niche in pve and c. could possibly be used over MF during dark evan, though that is up in the air.


Great idea. I wouldn't mind a SMALL penalty for using MS with DoTs. Hopefully if they adopt this idea they wouldn't make the penalty too grave.
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