Balance based on social factors?

85 Troll Death Knight
8085
Wasn't there like some sort of Arms/Prot build or something in Vanilla?



Yeah, you went down to MS.

http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View.Beta&category_select_id=5&build=b4

Then you went to Defiance in Prot.

Technically, Defiance wasn't really required.

Mostly because, as the tank, you could yell at people for pulling threat off you, even if you weren't doing your best to maximize it.

The DPS would hang their head in shame and dejectedly resort to pausing for a second between spellcasts or whatever, because you were the tank.
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
such awful, awful trees.
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90 Orc Warrior
10130

such awful, awful trees.


That's the real takeaway.

Look at the Prot Warrior 31 point talent:
10% of your hit point regeneration from spirit is allowed in combat.


That may be the crappiest talent ever.
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85 Troll Druid
5410
YESSSSS, missed those trees so much.

I loved that paladins didn't even have talents at the beginning. So awesome. GG pallies, tank now!
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85 Troll Death Knight
8085
such awful, awful trees.


That's the real takeaway.

Look at the Prot Warrior 31 point talent:
10% of your hit point regeneration from spirit is allowed in combat.


That may be the crappiest talent ever.

Those were beta talents though :U

Live was a little better.

http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category_select_id=5&build=1.3

I think it's a little funny that Arms basically never changed until 4.0.1 hit.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5940
Wasn't there like some sort of Arms/Prot build or something in Vanilla?


I remember tanking as full fury, but I might be full of *@%*, since it was 5 years ago and I loathed tanking in Vanilla, and did it reluctantly if I had to. I know full prot was crap though.


I think most alliance tanks did either 31/20/0 or 31/5/15, and most horde tanks did 31/5/15 or actually specced into Prot (horde had much worse threat issues than alliance did back in the day).
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85 Human Warrior
4925
Wasn't there like some sort of Arms/Prot build or something in Vanilla?


I remember tanking as full fury, but I might be full of *@%*, since it was 5 years ago and I loathed tanking in Vanilla, and did it reluctantly if I had to. I know full prot was crap though.


Full prot was what your main tank and primary OT specced into in vanilla (the ones who were full time tanks), the rest of your tanks (the ones who only tanked when more than 2 tanks were needed) were usually fury or arms.

Ferals could tank past a certain point with the right gear but that would have cost the raid an innervate and most guilds required all raiding druids have innervate thus being resto.

Pallies were a passable offtank, and quite good against undead. I remember several times in vanilla using a pally as the 5th tank if all 5 warriors didn't show.

Arms/prot and Fury/prot hybrid specs were quite viable in vanilla for off-tanks and even into early TBC. I remember OTing in kara as a fury/prot hybrid and it worked quite well
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85 Troll Druid
5410
I miss having a shaman sit OOC on some MC fights.

I miss spamming decurse on some fights. Just decurse, nothing else, completely spam it, until the boss is dead.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
10135
Oh how I long for the lost glory days of Vanilla, MMOs have evolved and with it the tolerance for what people see as bad these days.
Whenever I find myself yearning for days long past, where warriors ruled the skies with iron fists, I remember...

Silithus... venturing among those damn dirty tunnels... and dying to the elite bugs... And finding myself at the Spirit Healer in the Barrens, too cheap to just pay the damn fee and so, making the long dark run back to Silithus in ghost form.

That quickly erases all sense of nostalgia and reminds me that while tank balance often seems to vary quite a bit, the game as a whole is better for all the changes, including those made to tanks.

The player base on the other hand... There are sparks of illumination here and there, the tank forums tend to show this more than others, but the voices of the inane rabble have swollen up to the point it often seems like we're exclusively dealing with truly terrible human beings.

On topic: I don't think anybody can truly say whether this is the case, not even the devs. They may not intend to do it, with the express purpose of damning or giving salvation to a class, but they must in some way see that certain talents just give a class the edge in terms of fun and either nerf the talent or nerf the surrounding talents so the overall package seems less incredible (I AM STILL SORE OVER WARBRINGER >:( ). Warriors have been, since WOTLK, the mobility tank. This sadly doesn't measure very well on survivability tests and boss fights such as MTing Sartharion or General Vezax but it does shine in certain fights, whelp/drake tanking in 3D comes to mind (not the best example I KNOW, tired :( ), over the other classes.

Just something to keep in mind.
Edited by Symitri on 11/8/2010 10:11 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0

The player base on the other hand... There are sparks of illumination here and there, the tank forums tend to show this more than others, but the voices of the inane rabble have swollen up to the point it often seems like we're exclusively dealing with truly terrible human beings.



Rabble Rabble Rabble.


Been tanking since BC (this toon) and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, tanking has improved greatly. 1 trick ponies are no longer the norm. Bears were told they sucked (my wife laughed gleefully when the guild's MT Warrior got pissed at her on Void Reaver because she never once lost threat.) Paladins were told to tank ghouls in Hyjal and leave the real mobs to real tanks, and there Warriors EXPECTED to be main tanks.

Aside from a few things they should fix to make it less mandatory to have certain tanks (looking at you DG,) and spike damage being harder on blocking tanks (thansk to it being unblockable but lowered by DK and Druid Mastery)I think tanks are close to where they should be.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7940
Actually, Bears ended up being able to tank later in the expansion, using highly specialized gear. They did more threat, took less damage and had more HP, thanks to being armor capped and actually having DPS stats.

Though not actually relevant to anything, I did tank one of Domo's adds as a druid when we were short a tank, regularly OT'd URBS runs, and tanked buckets of Scholo runs (I think for the headmaster's charge). All as 31 point resto :P

As for those having bouts of nostalgia. I miss it too. But then I remember the fun of trying to kill anything at all as a resto druid, spending more time farming consumables for raiding than actual raiding, having to rez up a 40-man raid, and the endless bugs. My personal fav was getting ganked outside of Ratchet and my ghost spawning in the graveyard just outside Booty Bay.
Edited by Dãwn on 11/8/2010 11:17 AM PST
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