Mana efficient slow heals.

90 Tauren Shaman
16070
~MMO-Champion short quote
“The base healing spell that healers are supposed to use until they gear up enough to have a significant amount of regen and throughput might not have a role in the game anymore. They are situational after you are no longer in greens and blues.”

This is referring to Heal, Holy Light, Healing Wave, Nourish.

The problem I see with the spells is that they have such a long cast time for little throughput, but their advantage is infinite mana sustainability (love it). Down the road of a expansion and its increased difficulty, healers cannot afford to keep up with damage with longer cast times and low throughput.

Restoration shaman uses their Healing Wave almost as a main ability because of how fast Tidal Waves makes it. Why not give the "base heals" faster cast times? Although I would not mind simi returning to a wrath/bc model with one cheap fast casting heal (Lesser Healing Wave), and a great heal (Healing Wave), along now with all our other heals Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria have added.

Your thoughts for Heal, Holy Light, Healing Wave, Nourish?
Edited by Tariy on 8/24/2013 11:35 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
8445
08/24/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Tariy
Restoration shaman uses their Healing Wave almost as a main ability because of how fast Tidal Waves makes it.


it also becomes mana neutral at a certain gearing point.
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They are in a relatively better place than they were back in Cata, but still feel really out of place for most specs. Healing Wave works nicely due to TW, but other healers lack a way to use the cheap-slow heal just as efficiently as we do even if they heal for more than our HW does.

They already have a much lower healing output than the Greater heal types; having a slow speed just devalues them further compared to other options that all healers have. If all the cheap heals were a base 2 or 1.5 sec cast-time, they might see some better use for other specs. Spending 2+ seconds on a heal that tickles in today's health pools is hardly rewarding when you can spend the same time on a much bigger heal. Once you have enough mana, they just get ignored and are a button bloat.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Healing Wave and Holy Light are the most useful with Holy Light edging over all cheap slow heals due to beacon.

But it's as Korghal said. I don't think some specs will mind if such heals get removed but at the same time shamans and paladins for example would require compensation if such a thing was done. Possibly druids too.
Edited by Marathel on 8/24/2013 1:59 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
9210
Monk's build Chi and makes Surging Mist instant.
Paladins have Infusion of Light + Beacon.
Shamans have Tidal Waves.

Make Heal and Nourish interactive and they wouldn't be so situational.
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90 Dwarf Priest
16440
It looks like Blizzard is probably getting rid of them. They still have their place, but Blizzard is keen on reducing "button bloat". I think its a good idea.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11825
They're going to have to design replacements because these heals aren't nearly as superfluous as they appear. Smite (which surely counts, as the Discipline equivalent of Heal), Holy Light and Healing Wave get major play.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I didn't feel like it was ever a great decision to give every healing spec 3 different single target heals. Not only is there the problem of the slow, efficient heal being kind of obsolete past a certain gear level (which is what GC was referring) to, there is also the problem of there not being enough separation between the Greater Heal type heal and the Flash Heal type heal. For almost every healer, one or the other ends up being the best choice and ends up being used 95% of the time.

For example, for Shaman, Healing Surge gets 30% crit with Tidal Waves. This means that, when you factor in the expected crit, Healing Surge has a faster cast time, is expected to heal for more per cast, has a higher expected Resurgence return, and is only marginally less HPM than Greater Healing Wave. There is almost no reason to use GHW, and it doesn't feel like there is even really a need to have both spells in the toolkit. For some other healers (that don't have the Tidal Waves hasted casts), it feels like the Greater Heal equivalent is just too slow , and by the time you can get a cast off, it will be sniped. With how much healing has shifted towards smart healing and AoE blanketing, you only generally use single target heals reactively these days (the days of tank healers preemptively chain casting single target spells in a raid feel long gone), and 2+ second cast time spells are just too slow to be used that way.

I think the best bet is to go back to each class having 2 single target heals. One would still be the emergency Flash Heal type spell. Another would be a slower, more efficient heal. I think the power should be somewhere between Heal and Greater Heal though. Maybe make it so that it scales with gear more than other spells, so at the start of the expansion, it feels alot like Holy Light/Heal/Healing Wave, but at higher gear levels it starts to feel a lot closer to a Greater Heal. They would need for that spell to scale well enough that it stays relevant at higher gear levels, and is more of the go to single target heal outside of emergency spot healing.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I have nothing nice to say about Heal. It's a pretty horrible spell.
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90 Human Priest
11640
Well, shaman-wise, the idea with Tidal Waves granting spell haste for HW/GHW (and extra crit chance for Healing Surge) is that you are rewarded for finding places to mix up your healing choices, whenever mixing it up is possible.

ie -

1) don't Riptide/Chain Heal when you are sitting at 2 stacks of Tidal Waves, if you can find somewhere to let loose with a HW/GHW/HS, because if you do apply another RT or CH while already sitting at 2 stacks of Tidal Waves, you're mis-managing the amount of benefit Tidal Waves can have for you.

2) don't spam nothing but HW (I know, I know... it's not like HW takes care of enough damage that anyone does this at level cap... and conversely, if you find yourself oom with no MTT/mana pot/on-use regen trinket, spamming HW is the best thing you can do because of its highly beneficial interaction with Resurgence) because you're better-served to toss our RT if it's off cooldown, if not much damage is going out, to set up for future damage (... so that you *have* Tidal Waves for when you need it, and also so you have a Riptided targets ready to launch Chain Heal off for the RT-CH buff).

So I would say that the low, slow shaman heal continues to occupy an interesting niche.

As Marathel points out (with far more credibility than *my* holy pally would bring to the discussion, rofl!) Holy Light occupies a *very* interesting niche for holy pallies, because of its interaction with Beacon of Light (ie... casting HL on a non-Beaconed target transfers 100% of the HL heal to the Beacon target - all other heals which interact with Beacon transfer 50% or less of their heal to the Beacon target).

Rexoss makes a case for Soothing Mist being a monk's long-cast, small heal... its actual mana cost is fairly high, given the amt it heals per second, but the "chance to proc Chi" mitigates that cost - it fuels other (very important) heals in the monk arsenal which are mana-free (because they cost Chi instead) and as he points out, channeling SoM causes SuM & EM (a monk's Flash Heal and a monk's powerful, short-furation HoT - both of which have otherwise lengthy cast times) to become instant on the SoM target. Additionally, the monk's Serpent Statue will duplicate the SoM channel on a second target.

I'm close to 100% unknowledgeable about druids.

I know Disc priests (but not Holy priests terribly well), and there's a case to be made in MoP for Smite to be the *real* Disc "Heal" spell. Heal itself still has a place, though relatively minor in the MoP Disc paradigm - it continues to reduce the duration of the Weakened Soul debuff (via SoS) by 2 sec per cast. It's a decent choice for low-ilvl Disc priests if they need to heal while they're oom with Mindbender/mana pot/on-use regen trinket on cooldown. There's a strong case to be made that they should just Smite, though.

I don't know enough about holy to say that Heal is worthless for them, but I can't think of any benefit they get from casting it outside of oom situations.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
hahahahaha, crap, I posted on my priest while verifying details for SoS & ToT interactions, rofl... sorry ;D
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
It looks like Blizzard is probably getting rid of them. They still have their place, but Blizzard is keen on reducing "button bloat". I think its a good idea.


No button bloat with Resto Druid.

Since Nourish has been removed from every single Resto Druid's bars since MoP released, we have more room for buttons!
Many Resto Druids also have Healing Touch removed from their bar outside of NS+HT macro.

These buttons are useless.

However! I don't want these spells removed. Reworked? Sure to some degree.
I like nourish and HT being in the spellbook because it makes it a lot easier to spot a very bad resto druid when you see them rocking glyphs for said spells and/or with high usage.

The game needs some poo to distinguish...the poo.

I confused myself too.

Edit; I'm not trolling with that last comment. To some degree, there's a lot of truth in there.
Also is another reason I was a fan of the old talent trees.
It is VERY easy to spot the baddies. I'm all for helping, but not when you're looking for pugs. I want to know right away who flat out has no clue.
Garbage things allow this.
Edited by Tonydanza on 8/24/2013 4:21 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13395
I have nothing nice to say about Heal. It's a pretty horrible spell.


I confess I don't even have it bound at all.
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I support the removal of these spells. They're a relic and the few specs that actually use them can have the passives that make them worth casting adjusted to other spells in their toolkit.
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90 Human Priest
16220
I don't know enough about holy to say that Heal is worthless for them, but I can't think of any benefit they get from casting it outside of oom situations.

It refreshes Renew in Serenity.

But yeah, it's pretty whatever.
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90 Human Paladin
OOB
10285
I actually took holy light off my mouse.
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90 Night Elf Druid
14415
lol nourish. i'm pretty sure we said we didn't want it when they put it in, and have continued to not want it ever since then, even when it was worth casting (and was it, ever, really worth the time?)

i was never a fan of homogenizing healer toolkits and adding/enforcing the 'small, medium, large' direct heal nonsense was one of the worst parts of it. squick.

then again i was also a fan of downranking and gaming the 5SR, so what do I know? :P
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90 Troll Druid
10000
(and was it, ever, really worth the time?)


In Wrath, yes, especially in pvp.

It had a few things going for it back then. For starters, it was a 1.5s cast. Then, there was a glyph for it which increased its healing done by an extra 6% per HoT you had up, and t7 4pc gave you an extra 5% per active HoT as well.

It was potent, mana efficient, and quick to cast.

Regrowth was the useless cast-time heal then :P
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90 Night Elf Druid
14415
ew, pvp. :P
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90 Troll Druid
10000
It was useful in pve, too, if you had to tank heal (or spot heal, to a lesser extent), but paladins were still better for tank healing, and we were better for raid-blanketing. :P
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