Why does Divine Plea have healing reduction?

100 Human Paladin
17020
Just FYI I didn't start healing raids until Firelands so I haven't been a super long time raider. But with the upcoming change to divine plea in 5.4, which I am very darn happy about, my question is... why was our healing reduced in the first place?

That's almost like nerfing druid heals when they use innervate isn't it? Our only mana regen spell and it gives us a penalty for using it.

I do remember the ol' judging for mana and melee'ing for mana when mechanics allow it currently but yeah, I've always disliked pally mana regen options.

Anyway if anyone knows why it was like this, maybe changes made many expansions ago, I'd love to know.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
Nope, not sure why. My best guess is because other healers have penalties to their mana regen:

- priest Hymn of Hope is channeled; they cannot heal at all while channeling it.
- shaman Mana Tide Totem; we can only have one Water Totem up at a time, so our healing is suppressed when MTT is down unless we time it to be used while HST is on cooldown (HST is often #1 or #2 on our total healing done in a fight). That's not tremendously difficult... but nor is timing DP for while your burst isn't needed.
- MW Mana Tea consumes countless GCDs per encounter, whether glyphed or channeled
- Druid Innervate is the only one I'm not aware of having a healing penalty (but I don't play a druid myself, and my 10man only recently acquired a druid so I don't know the class very well and I guess I could be wrong). Maybe the druid penalty is that in a raid situation, they might be required to give it to someone else, therefore getting 0 benefit from it? idk.
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100 Human Paladin
18050
You've already noted why. Because we had a lot of other ways of replenishing mana and Divine Plea without a healing reduction would have been OP. Now that those other ways of replenishing mana have been taken away from us, they are compensating us by taking away the healing reduction on Divine Plea.
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90 Troll Druid
12455
I've never been required to give my Innervate to anyone else. I have, on occasion, where another healer was at a far lower mana % than myself. But I have never been specifically asked to.

As for penalties to druid mana regen. There's not one. It's just the only one we have as opposed to Judgement/DP for pallies, HoH/SF for priests, MTT/Lightning Bolt/Water Shield for shaman, and MT spam for monks.

Most healers -- monks aside -- have a relatively long mana CD and a relatively short mana regen ability. 3 mins + for the longer and 2 min or less for the shorter. I'd assume the reason for the penalties is because it's on such a relatively short CD. This is also probably why the druid mana CD has no penalty -- it's our only one. *shrug*
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
It's a relic from when the game had a different (less consistent) design philosophy. It hasn't really made any sense since Cataclysm.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8410
Because you are not allowed to heal. GIVE US NON-ABSORB HEALERS A CHANCE YOU STUPID PALADINS. GAWD. >:C
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90 Human Paladin
14915
It's a relic from when the game had a different (less consistent) design philosophy. It hasn't really made any sense since Cataclysm.


I don't think their healing philosophy has changed, I just think they wanted to get rid of Seal of Insight's mana regen, but think we don't need a regen nerf, so they tried to balance it out with Divine Plea. Nothing deeper than that, I think.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
I don't think their healing philosophy has changed, I just think they wanted to get rid of Seal of Insight's mana regen, but think we don't need a regen nerf, so they tried to balance it out with Divine Plea. Nothing deeper than that, I think.


It has though; in Wrath there were much more strongly defined healer roles, and much less of an attempt to make all classes have broadly similar capabilities. Paladins were pushed into tank healing roles by design. In Cataclysm one of the things that happened with (or because of) 10-mans becoming serious progression was that specs couldn't be pigeon-holed as much. This trend continued in MoP, which is why you see even more broad parallels between classes (lots of healers having a 3 minute strong raid heal, for instance).

I'm not saying their philosophy on healing has suddenly changed, I'm saying it changed months / years ago and this is one of the remnants of a previous approach.
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89 Dwarf Shaman
9800
Remember when Paladin crits heals would restore mana? they'd never run oom. I'm talking BC-ish.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14240
5.4 it looks like they are removing the healing reduction.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/#paladin
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90 Human Paladin
14915
I'm not saying their philosophy on healing has suddenly changed, I'm saying it changed months / years ago and this is one of the remnants of a previous approach.


Right, I meant to say that it hasn't changed since... well, I'd say Cata launch. We don't "tank" heal anymore, Priests and Druids don't "raid" heal anymore. And now, with this change, we don't "melee" heal anymore.
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100 Human Paladin
17020
Nope, not sure why. My best guess is because other healers have penalties to their mana regen:


Yeah that's true, Innervate seems like the most standard one and now DP will be like it too :O

You've already noted why. Because we had a lot of other ways of replenishing mana and Divine Plea without a healing reduction would have been OP. Now that those other ways of replenishing mana have been taken away from us, they are compensating us by taking away the healing reduction on Divine Plea.


It's interesting to note that I read they removed the insight thing because of how a lot of fights don't allow us to melee often, because of range mechanics screwing the melee, and so they removed it and changed DP drastically. Monk melee to regen mana too and are classified as melee (even though I've had some debate about this) meaning they don't get ranged only mechanics thrown on them, so it was a weird comparison. I'm finding in heroics that I either avoid DP if I can or use it when safe/just cos I absolutely have to from all the damage.

Paladins were pushed into tank healing roles by design


Yeah now-a-days I support tank and raid, even healing my tank through beacon by healing the raid.

Remember when Paladin crits heals would restore mana? they'd never run oom. I'm talking BC-ish.


Wow thats massively OP lol

I just leveled a shaman to play around with heal spec and I noticed that lightning bolt doesn't give mana back, I was just losing mana casting it so not sure what I did weird there. I think I like priest regen the most, esp disc. Monk I don't know a lot of, just that their regen is so good that they stack pure int and only need 10k spirit or less (according to my monk healers) while paladins either stack spirit to deal with regen or stack mastery (I think the mastery stacking may be more for 25mans?)

I'm starting to use DP more even at critical moments and just let the other heals do more but it's always felt weird heh having to announce to the other heals that your gonna be nerfed for a few sec so pick up the slack, well I do. Heh like when people use to use focus potions, man I haven't used one or seen any of my teams healers use it in months, fights have no moments to really stop and do nothing!

I am excited for the change though, and I hope it helps because currently I think I am the only one in my team that struggles with mana, hence why I stack so much spirit.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
08/23/2013 01:48 AMPosted by Delalina
Monk melee to regen mana too and are classified as melee (even though I've had some debate about this) meaning they don't get ranged only mechanics thrown on them, so it was a weird comparison.

Monks melee is more active than ours; they've got a rotation and multiple abilities built around it, whereas we just autoattack and sometimes Crusader Strike for Holy Power.

Paladins were pushed into tank healing roles by design


Yeah now-a-days I support tank and raid, even healing my tank through beacon by healing the raid.

Yup. The only real dedicated tank healers these days are tanks themselves.

We're also getting a pretty significant buff to mana efficiency with the reduction in the cost of Holy Shock; literally worth the equivalent of several thousand spirit.
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100 Draenei Shaman
16110
I just leveled a shaman to play around with heal spec and I noticed that lightning bolt doesn't give mana back, I was just losing mana casting it so not sure what I did weird there


You have to make sure you have the Telluric Currents glyph in order to get any mana back from LB. Even then, it only works out to 0.7% mana restore per cast. Not even worth it unless you're not having to heal for a good time.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
No reason at all
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
It's from a different time when paladins were also judging for mana. Probably an attempt to make something balanced with something else, even though nothing was balanced then.
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100 Tauren Druid
9540


That's almost like nerfing druid heals when they use innervate isn't it? Our only mana regen spell and it gives us a penalty for using it.



No it's not. Not until I have a secondary resource such as I dunno...Holy Power, Along with more ways to get mana back, like you have.

Mana isn't your only resource.
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90 Human Paladin
6975
Just FYI I didn't start healing raids until Firelands so I haven't been a super long time raider. But with the upcoming change to divine plea in 5.4, which I am very darn happy about, my question is... why was our healing reduced in the first place?

Divine Plea has a healing debuff because, up until MoP, Divine Plea returned the most mana per unit time than most other mana cooldowns in the game by a HUGE amount.

Original Divine Plea (in Wrath) was really absurd:
• 25% total mana over 15 seconds
• 1 minute cooldown
• 20% healing reduction

Anyway, the debuff was simply left alone when mana cooldowns were brought closer together in power for MoP, which was bad. But now it's going away in 5.4, which is good.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
Original Divine Plea (in Wrath) was really absurd:
• 25% total mana over 15 seconds
• 1 minute cooldown
• 20% healing reduction

It was changed very early on to 50% healing reduction though.

Don't get me wrong, it was definitely powerful. It's just that back then there was less of an effort to make sure everyone was capable in all situations, so you had things like pallies having excellent regen but literally no AoE healing.
Edited by Tarski on 8/23/2013 10:36 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16565
Holy power is balanced with a higher mana cost on our non holy power spells. Also, this expansion has made it incredibly difficult to melee for mana because even though you are in melee range you are not classified as melee and will get hit with ranged only abilities that are devastating in melee range. In addition, the mana return from seal of insight is being removed. If the penalty remained on DP without having an ability to regain mana from melee it would be crippling.

Furthermore, the penalty from DP wasn't always 50%. Initially it was only 20% and could be negated by using wings. Which I thought made you make the choice. Use plea and wings to maintain normal out put or sacrifice your output and save wings for when needed. There was thought involved. There is still some thought involved but you are unable to fully negate the penalty. Personally the reduction is more noticeable with the larger health pools. Nothing like cast a 15k heal on someone with over 500k HP.

Holy power, in theory, is a mana regen tool. A "free" heal that was paid for with other heals. Without melee generating mana or judgement returning mana, the penalty on DP is excessive.
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